Dana White Interview

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By Chris Colderley©

 

As president of the UFC, Dana White has brought the sport to the cusp a national television deal and national exposure. Despite some recent setbacks and bad luck (Couture-Belfort), Dana White remains confident about the future of the UFC. He is enthusiastic about the future of the sport, determined to get the best fighters in the world, and craft the most exciting match-ups. His openness and candidness about the organization is something that you don’t get from other sports organizations.

 

In the aftermath of UFC 46, BoxingInsider.com asked UFC President, Dana White about the show and the future of the world’s best known MMA organization.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Let me start off by asking what were your thoughts on UFC 46?

 

Dana White: It was a great show. I was very happy with the live attendance, with the ticket sales obviously. The fights were great -- a little anti-climactic at the end. But it's real fighting, and that's what happens sometimes.

 

Boxinginsider.com: What did you think about the Belfort/Couture fight?

 

Dana White: Like I said "anti-climactic", but it happens. Those things happen. Two human beings get together and fight -- anything can happen.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Many fans, including myself, thought that it should have been a no contest. Explain how the decision was arrived at.

 

Dana White: What happens is they review the fight -- the Commission did. I said the same thing -- it has to be a no contest. They reviewed the fight and the cut was caused from a punch. As glancing and grazing as it was, no matter what, it was caused from a punch. That's how the cut was caused.

 

Boxinginsider.com: After the fight what measures did you take to ensure that there wasn't any defective equipment -- or did you?

 

Dana White: I don't know what you mean.

 

Boxinginsider.com: I am not saying it did happen, but one of the old tricks in boxing was they used to put lime on your gloves to get the other fighter's eyes or there were tricks with razorblades. I don't think that was done, but just that there wasn't a loose thread or a torn glove or anything? Did you actually check to make sure?

 

Dana White: Originally what happened, when I first saw it, there was something in Randy's eye -- Randy couldn't see, and there was something in his eye. What was in his eye was blood -- pouring down into his eye. That's why he couldn't see. If you think of your eyelid, where a woman would put eyeliner on the top lid, Randy got five stitches going across that way. Then the bottom lid, straight up toward the eye, he had four stitches -- and his retina was scratched. It was just one of those freak things. Everybody saw Randy and Pedro go to war the first time with nothing bad. Then one crazy glancing blow tore his skin.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Are you doing anything to prevent this from happening again, or are you just treating this as a freak accident?

 

Dana White: A freak accident.

 

Boxinginsider.com: OK. Pride has just released a statement. I don't have the statement in front of me, but, to paraphrase, basically they said that the UFC hasn't marketed the sport to its full potential in North America, and they are prepared to go head to head with you beginning this year. They are very confident about their prospects. How do you respond to that?

 

Dana White: Beautiful -- come on in. The more money that's spent in North America, the better. I love it.

 

Boxinginsider.com: At the same time what are the possibilities you might end up in a bidding war and lose fighters like, off the top of my head, Couture, Shamrock, and Ortiz?

 

Dana White: I don't worry about that stuff. I'm not worried about that. How many fighters have we lost to Pride in the last three years?

 

Boxinginsider.com: Directly or indirectly?

 

Dana White: I mean period. How many fighters have you seen leave the UFC and go straight to Pride and start fighting, and they were, like, "Here we go, we've got a UFC fighter?

 

Boxinginsider.com: Off the top of my head, Mark Coleman is the only one I can think of.

 

Dana White: It wasn't while I was here.

 

Boxinginsider.com: That was previously.

 

Dana White: Right. It's funny, because there's all this talk about how Pride has the fighters, and you couldn't name one guy that's left UFC and gone directly to Pride.

 

Boxinginsider.com: No I agree with you there.

 

Dana White: And then the only time you've ever seen a Pride fighter that had a contract with Pride and come straight to UFC must be Vitor Belfort.

 

Boxinginsider.com: But do you expect that there will be a bidding war? Is it a possibility?

 

Dana White: I'm not concerned with that at all. I have never thought twice about it.

 

Boxinginsider.com: A couple of commentators -- and I'm naming them off the top of my head -- Dave Meltzer I can think of, and Eddie Bravo mentioned it -- have suggested that the wrestling-style promotion at UFC 46 -- like Lee Murray with the Hannibal Lechter mask…

 

Dana White: We didn't tell Lee to do that. Lee came in like that himself. Go ahead -- I'll let you finish your question.

 

Boxinginsider.com: The Tito Ortiz-Lee Murray exchange after Murray's victory, the face-off between Liddell and Ortiz, that sort of wrestling-style promotion is the way that you should be promoting the UFC. I know the UFC released a statement -- probably about six months ago -- that they have moved away from that style of promotion. Explain how you are marketing the sport right now.

 

Dana White: We moved away from WWE style of promotion in the fights for the walk-ins -- we thought it looked too WWE, the way we did it with the pyro and the video when they walked out. First of all, I didn't even know he was coming out with the Hannibal Lecter outfit on. I was just as surprised as everybody was when he walked out. I thought it was awesome. I really liked it. I think he pulled it off well, and it was part of his personality.

 

What sets us apart from the WWE is that I don't tell the guys [how to behave]. The only thing that we tell guys we are not crazy about, sometimes you get caught up in the emotion and there's a lot of cussing and swearing. We're not into that. We believe this is a sport in that you should feel safe letting your kids watch the show and bringing your kids out to the show. It is a combat sport just as if they went to a boxing match. Cussing is the only thing that we are really not crazy about. We tell the fighters to be professional and use their heads when they are talking, but sometimes the guys get caught up in the emotion and sometimes it happens. What are you going to do?

 

But, other than that, I don't tell the fighters what to do or how to come out or what to say. As far as WWE goes, they control every aspect of what those actors are doing. Those guys are actors. They have scripts that are written by the WWE and they have a persona that is created by the WWE. We don't do any of that kind of stuff. These guys are real fighters. The executioner, Bernard Hopkins, comes out with a hood and an axe and whole nine. These guys are real fighters. Anybody who thinks any of that stuff that we do -- I disagree with Dave Meltzer, in that it is professional wrestling style. It's not. It's real fighting style is what it is.

 

The thing with Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz -- we just got them both in the Octagon and they did an interview with Joe Rogan. None of that was scripted. They knew that they were going to come in there so I'm sure they thought about what was going to be said. But none of that is scripted or planned out or rehearsed. None of it. The other thing, the thing with Tito and Lee Murray, I didn't expect that to happen at all. Joe Rogan asked a question, and that's what it led into.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Can you explain where that heat comes from? Where does the heat between Murray and Tito Ortiz come from?

 

Dana White: An alleged street fight in London.

 

Boxinginsider.com: And that's it?

 

Dana White: That's it. I wasn't there so I don't know anything about it. You ask five or six different people and there are five or six different stories of what happened that night. But one thing is for sure, those two definitely bumped into each other in London and they don't like each other now at all.

 

In part 2 of this interview with Chris Colderley, Dana White reflects on UFC 45, the tenth anniversary show, talks about the vacant championships, and gives his views on marketing the sport and its fighters against professional boxing.

 

Boxinginsider.com: You have a lot of problems with the championship after the Belfort-Couture match. There are rumors that Belfort doesn't want to fight Couture for a third time. I don't know if that's true -- or if you can confirm it or deny it, but how do you combat a situation where champions just won't fight?

 

Dana White: There's no option. You can't ask guys if they want to fight somebody. There's a mandatory guy who you have to fight.

 

This sport is not at the level that boxing is at -- where a guy can say, "I'm going to sit out. I'm not going to fight this guy or fight that guy." Boxing has been around for a hundred years here. This sport can not afford that. There are fights that people want to see -- right now.

 

No athlete in this sport right now is bigger than the sport -- none of them. So if someone says "I'm not taking this" or, "I'm not taking a rematch with Randy Couture" -- what options do you have? I'm not asking. I'm not asking Vitor if he'll take a fight. I'm telling Vitor who he's got to fight. That's what the fans want to see and that's what the people want to see.

 

If Vitor Belfort is professional -- he's a professional fighter and Vitor's not afraid to fight anybody, and I'm one million per cent confident that he will fight Randy Couture.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Before the UFC 45 I asked you about the middleweight championship and the lightweight championship and you said we were going to hear some announcements. When can we expect to hear about those titles being defended or fought for?

 

Dana White: Well, right now what we've done is obviously bringing Lee Murray into the UFC to spice things up and get a little more excitement into the 185 lb division. We've got to get him fighting. We’ve got to get Lindland back in the mix. We've got to get Baroni off suspension -- the 185 lb division is in shambles right now. So we're working on that, trying to build that back up.

 

The lightweight division is very interesting right now. Josh Thomson and Hermes Franca just fought a fight that was controversial. There's BJ Penn moving up to 170, fighting Hughes and winning. I have a meeting with his people tomorrow and the question is: is he going to stay at 170 or is he going to come back to 155 or what is he going to do? Is he going to rematch Hughes? Is he going to fight somebody else?

 

We're still working on all that, but right now I think we're closer to a lightweight title and the 185 lb division is getting a little more exciting. It's just going to be a little messed up for a while.

 

Boxinginsider.com: In a recent interview, I spoke with Jens Pulver. He said he would fight in the UFC for free. Is there any interest in bringing Jens back into the 155 division?

 

Dana White: Absolutely. I've said this a million times. Jens needs to get a couple of key wins. If he gets a couple of key wins, he's right back in the mix. Jens lost to Duane Ludwig and he lost to Jason Maxwell. He needs to get a big win and then I'd be interested.

 

Boxinginsider.com: I haven't talked to you since UFC 45. I talked to you at the show, but I haven't talked to you since. It was a very interesting night. The first thing I want to ask you about was Phil Baroni hitting the referee. How did you feel about that and what have you said to Phil since?

 

Dana White: I wasn't happy about it. As soon as I saw the first punch, I jumped up out of my seat and tried to get inside the Octagon as fast as I could. I knew, immediately, that he was in big trouble -- big, big trouble. I wasn't happy about it at all.

 

Boxinginsider.com: What have you said to him since?

 

Dana White: You know, Phil made a mistake and he's paying for it now… But I think Phil has taken it on the chin like a man, and he's doing other things. I know Phil's going to school right now, and I think Phil's doing really positive things right now while he's on suspension. I am happy with the decisions he made after he did that. Let's put it that way.

 

Boxinginsider.com: At the same event Frank Trigg was fined for wearing a vincevouyer.com hat into the ring, I believe.

 

Dana White: He was never fined.

 

Boxinginsider.com: OK. It was reported that he was fined.

 

Dana White: It wasn't true. When I saw the Vince Vouyer hat I said I was going to fine him, but he was never fined. I never followed up with it.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Were you planning to?

 

Dana White: YeS

 

Boxinginsider.com: And can I ask why, given what UFC has gone through with censorship?

 

Dana White: He was told at the time that he was not allowed to wear that, and they know they can't. He can't have pornography sponsors. He can't have hard liquor sponsors. I can't remember what the other ones are per our contract with Pay per View.

 

Boxinginsider.com: OK.

 

Dana White: Matt Hughes fined him. I didn't have to fine him -- man he was dead!

 

Boxinginsider.com: Oh, yes, an interesting match! On the bright side, Randy Couture was voted the most popular fighter.

 

Dana White: Yes.

 

Boxinginsider.com: I believe he is the only one on the list who has been active in the past year of those ten fighters.

 

Dana White: Well, you weren't allowed to nominate him. It was just supposed to be the old school guys.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Right. Why was Randy Couture number one then?

 

Dana White: Because everybody voted for him. Everybody put him on there.

 

Boxinginsider.com: OK, having said that, Randy Couture being the one guy who was nominated overwhelmingly, why is it, do you think, he is so popular with the fans? Why is he such an enduring…?

 

Dana White: It's amazing. It's just amazing how many people -- not just the fans -- just absolutely love Randy Couture. How well respected he is by other athletes, the fans, us. The guy is amazing. He really is an amazing human being. He's a great guy. He's a great athlete. He's everything that you can ever expect from a champion. He is a great champion. He’s a great athlete. He is a great human being. He's the man.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Dana, why are you having problems -- maybe you are not having problems and you will disagree with me on this one. But why are you having problems building up new fighters?

 

Dana White: What do you mean?

 

Boxinginsider.com: Well, when I saw that Randy Couture was nominated -- and I didn't quite understand the rules, so forgive me -- well my first response was "Why is Randy Couture on there and guys like Chuck and Tito and Phil Baroni aren't? Now you have partly explained that question, but why is it that the guys like Shamrock, the guys like Gracie -- well, Tank, who actually has been active in the past year, Marco Ruas -- still have such an enduring legacy that the new fighters don't seem to have?

 

Dana White: I wouldn't really agree with that. What you have to understand is when the UFC first came on, they were doing amazing pay-per-view spots. They were doing 300,000 buys at a time when the cable universe was much, much smaller. So if you take the 300,000 buyers plus all the people that were stealing it, plus it was in all the Blockbuster stores back then and all the negative press it had, those guys fought in front of a lot of people.

 

The best example I can give you is for the hard-core fans the big fight -- back in the day when this thing was dying -- was Tito Ortiz and Frank Shamrock. Twenty-five hundred people saw that fight on direct TV. That's the difference. Now these fighters these days I would disagree that we haven't built any stars. We are selling out arenas. You don't sell out arenas of 12-14,000 people with guys that aren't stars. I'll tell you what: walk around anywhere with Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, and even Randy Couture now, and a lot of these guys -- you would be surprised. Walk around with them.

 

Boxinginsider.com: I have seen them out.

 

Dana White: I'm not even talking Event Week. One of my buddies is good friends with Tito, and they went to Disneyland together with their kids and they said it was the worst time they ever had. You can't walk ten feet through Disneyland without stopping for taking pictures and for autographs.

 

Boxinginsider.com: How important are the personalities to the UFC in marketing the product in your opinion?

 

Dana White: Very important. I think it is about the fight. People want to see good fights.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Is there a danger in marketing personalities? Do you run into the same situation with Tito saying, "Well, I've got a movie deal, I don't want to fight?"

 

Dana White: Hopefully really soon the fighter is going to learn. It's crazy. The UFC is as fair as we can be. We are running a business and there is nobody who would like to see these guys make a ton of money more than I would. It means I am making a ton of money. The reality is these guys are all overpaid right now for what this market will bear. We do that because we want to take care of our fighters. I will tell you what. You ask 90 per cent of the guys who fight in the UFC, it is a professional organization. They are treated like real athletes. They do real PR, and they are paid very well for what they do. Are they making boxing kind of money? Yes they are. They are making actually more money than most of the boxers out there make.

 

There are a handful of guys you hear about -- you hear De La Hoya is going to make three million. I will tell you what's going to happen. When De La Hoya is done and Tyson is done, boxing is done. Boxing is in big, big trouble right now. Two of the top promoters in that sport are in trouble. Don King just got sued by Terry Norris for $7 million. Now Tyson's in line next for $120 million. Bob Arum has his own problems right now. Those are the two top dogs in that sport. Think about when those two promoters go away, who is left? Tyson and De La Hoya are the only two guys out there who can sell tickets or pay per view. Roy Jones can't, even. So that sport is going to be in for big trouble. If you look at the sport as a whole, and look at what those guys get paid -- find out what a guy who is fighting in the main event on Fox Sports is making or ESPN for that matter. They are not making as much money as our guys are. I guarantee it.

 

In part 3 of this interview with Chris Colderley, Dana White discusses the continuing work for a national TV deal, talks about UFC 47, and gives his views on the future of the UFC.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Now for the tough questions. What are the facts with the television deal? I know last time I talked to you it was pretty close, the next time I talked to you, pretty close. What's the status right now with the TV deal?

 

Dana White: Still there. I'm saying we are going to be on TV by the fall.

 

Boxinginsider.com:I heard a rumor you actually had a TV deal done but turned it down because of money issues. Could you comment? Or is it a rumor?

 

Dana White: It's all a bunch of rumors too.

 

Boxinginsider.com: OK. I thought it was worth asking.

 

Dana White: No, I hear you. It drives me mad. Everything that you read on the Internet is false. Almost everything on the Internet is false -- unless you hear it from the fighter or promoter's mouth.

 

Boxinginsider.com: OK. Explain to me what it is going to take on both ends to get a TV deal done: your end and the television network.

 

Dana White: When we first bought the UFC, the UFC was so completely dead and the sport was so dead and the UFC had no assets left. All we bought was the Ultimate Fighting Championship. If people even knew a quarter of the work that has been done in the last three years -- it is mind-boggling, how far we have come in three years.

 

There is no doubt there were a few bad deals that were cut in the beginning, and I think it is what we felt we had to do at the time to really get things rolling and to get the thing back on track. I can tell you this: we will never cut a bad deal ever again, ever.

 

We don't have to. We are in a very, very, very good spot right now and we are very happy with where we are three years into this thing. We wouldn't release DVDs until we got this thing up and running. Now we release DVDs and we've got the hottest-selling DVD in the country right now. We had to wait until we got some momentum and got this thing to where we thought we could, and we're there. You won't see me cut another bad deal again, ever.

 

Boxinginsider.com: A bad deal in reference to what? Your deal with the pay-per-view.

 

Dana White: As I said, there were a few bad deals in the beginning when we first got started. I don't want to name anybody specifically, but there were a few bad deals cut and the deals that we did cut, I think we did because we knew we had to do to make things happen. We have got them all cleaned up now and a lot of good things happening.

 

Boxinginsider.com: In terms of when you talk to television executives, what do they like about the product? What are they excited about when you say UFC?

 

Dana White: The momentum. I think they see the momentum that we built in the last three years. There are a lot of things that they are still afraid of.

 

Boxinginsider.com: For example?

 

Dana White: People who are not educated on the sport are terrified of it and they think it is brutal and scary and somebody is going to get hurt or killed or die. It's just a lack of education, they just haven't been around, and don't really understand it. That's a huge hurdle to come up in anything -- if we're doing PR, or trying to get TV deals or trying to talk to Commissions, you name it. That's a huge hurdle.

 

Boxinginsider.com: How is the mainstream media coming around? I know ESPN has covered a few of the post fights. How do you think attitudes in the media have changed and what do you need to do change them?

 

Dana White: It's changed big time. Every time we do something now it is about the fighters or the company. You know what I mean? It is not about "Oh my God, this renegade death sport". The articles aren't about that any more.

 

We have been in Forbes magazine, the ESPN magazine. We have been on the cover of Muscle and Fitness, you name it. We have been everywhere. Then when you talk about TV, we have been on the Best Damned Sports Show, Jimmy Kimmell, Jay Lenno, Carson Daly. . . We've had stories done by boxing writers in the Las Vegas Review Journal, the New York Post, the New York Times, and the LA papers. We've definitely got credibility now.

 

As I said, when they are doing a story the story is about the fight, the fighter, or the promotion. It is not about "Oh my God, this death sport".

 

Boxinginsider.com: UFC 47 is coming up. Number one on the agenda is Chuck Liddell and Tito finally get to fight. Do you know what my response was?

 

Dana White: What?

 

Boxinginsider.com: Isn't this too little too late or is this just what the UFC needs?

 

Dana White: It's perfect. It is not too little too late. It is perfect, and basically I think the fastest-selling fight we ever had before this was UFC 40, and eight days on sale we had sold like 1,000 tickets. Going into this one, we have been on sale for seventeen days … Seventeen days on sale for UFC 40 we sold 1,575 tickets. Seventeen days on sale for this show we sold 5,762 tickets already in seventeen days.

 

Boxinginsider.com: So I guess it's just what was needed.

 

Dana White: It is phenomenal. It's the fastest selling fight we've ever done.

 

Boxinginsider.com: How do you expect it will do on pay-per-view?

 

Dana White: We are expecting it to do great on pay-per-view. Actually I was out of town last week because I was travelling around to all the cable companies to get their support for this event, and they are all on big time.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Do you think this will beat UFC 40?

 

Dana White: Yes I 'm positive it will. Usually what we have to do, as a promoter, we are juggling ticket sales and pay-per-view sales. I am almost out of the ticket business now. So all I will do is focus on pay-per-view from here on out, which is amazing seventeen days on sale. So, too little too late? No way. This is a fight that people care about and want to see. It is a good fight.

 

Were you at UFC 40?

 

Boxinginsider.com: UFC 40, no.

 

Dana White: Shamrock vs. Tito.

 

Boxinginsider.com: No, I was at UFC 41.

 

Dana White: The energy for that thing was insane. They are telling me this fight is going to be exactly the same. Not only is that fight going to be great, but the Tim Silvia vs. Andre Orlovski fight is going to be awesome, too.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Do Chuck and Tito have three rounds or five rounds?

 

Dana White: Three. That was a huge downside. We wanted it to be five.

 

Boxinginsider.com: At the end of 2004 if I called you up on November 30 and I said, "Dana, where is the UFC?” what would you tell me?

 

Dana White: Well, if everything goes the way I plan it this year it is going to be a great year for us, a great year.

 

Boxinginsider.com: And where do you expect to be?

 

Dana White: Nothing ever goes the way you expect it, especially in this business. We have got a really good year laid out this year and, if things go the way they are looking right now, I am ready for the best year MMA has ever had.

 

Boxinginsider.com: Good. Dana is there anything else you would like to add or we could put up on ticket sales info?

 

Dana White: Yes, this thing's going to be sold out by the end of the month. So anybody who is even on the fence on whether they should go or not -- and the great thing is that a lot of the expensive tickets went first. That is great for us and it is great for the fans. We always sell out of the $150s, $75s, and $35s. Those always go, and there are still a lot of those, so it is good for everybody.

 

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via Ironlife.com