Intro to puro

[Guest KanadianKrusty]

ok, the only japanese tapes i have are Big Japan deathmatches vol.3 and Best of explosion matches(from FMW i think) and now i want to get into "real" wrestling, and the only thing i know is that i MUST get j-cup 94-95... so i think i will need your help guys.i'm taking any suggestions, lucharesu... heavyweights... anything!

[Guest CB2M]

ok, the only japanese tapes i have are Big Japan deathmatches vol.3 and Best of explosion matches(from FMW i think) and now i want to get into "real" wrestling, and the only thing i know is that i MUST get j-cup 94-95... so i think i will need your help guys.i'm taking any suggestions, lucharesu... heavyweights... anything!

All Japan:

 

As an intro to All Japan, this stuff should be seen first:

 

Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 6/8/90 & 9/1/90

Any Misawa vs. Jumbo 6-man tags

All Japan TV in 1993 (all of it)

 

Then you should get AJPW's best 4 matches:

 

Misawa vs. Kawada 6/3/94

Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue 6/9/95

Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue 12/6/96

Misawa vs. Kobashi 1/20/97

 

You should also check out AJPW's 1995 Champion Carnival set, and any Misawa vs. Kawada, Misawa vs. Kobashi and Kawada vs. Kobashi.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Judging from simply my own personal experience, it's best to start out with the junior's and build from there, as they provide an easy way to get used to the Japanese psychology while doing unique moves that no one else does to make the transfer easier. CB2M's suggestions are all great, but personally I've found watching All Japan and the New Japan Heavyweight's much easier to watch since I've seen enough junior stuff to get the overall psychology that is seen in Japanese wrestling.

 

In other words, you should definately get J-Cup '94 and '95, they're a must. Skydiving J and the J* Crown Tournament (both from '96) are also great intro's to puro and Junior wrestling specifically.

[Guest CB2M]

Judging from simply my own personal experience, it's best to start out with the junior's and build from there, as they provide an easy way to get used to the Japanese psychology while doing unique moves that no one else does to make the transfer easier. CB2M's suggestions are all great, but personally I've found watching All Japan and the New Japan Heavyweight's much easier to watch since I've seen enough junior stuff to get the overall psychology that is seen in Japanese wrestling.

 

In other words, you should definately get J-Cup '94 and '95, they're a must. Skydiving J and the J* Crown Tournament (both from '96) are also great intro's to puro and Junior wrestling specifically.

That is excellent advice and is the same route I took.  The reason I suggested All Japan is because it's my favorite promotion/style/wrestlers/etc.  It got me "hooked" on puroresu, which the junior stuff really didn't do.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

That is excellent advice and is the same route I took.  The reason I suggested All Japan is because it's my favorite promotion/style/wrestlers/etc.  It got me "hooked" on puroresu, which the junior stuff really didn't do.

Yeah, All Japan is really great stuff once you "get" it, which can sometimes take a while. The psychology is sometimes so off the wall that it can leave non-fans of Puroresu feeling turned-off to the promotion because they lack the understanding of what it's style is based on.

[Guest thefrenchargel]

Definitely get all the Misawa vs. Kawada you can lay your hands on. Kobashi vs. Misawa from Giant Series 97 is a must-see. Michinoku Pro in 96 is awesome as well. Just stay away from Taue's singles matches. Definitely my least favorite of AJPW's heavies. (that i've seen.)

[Guest]

not everyone is into strong style ajpw and noah,  get a tape of each promotion and go from there.  for ajpw excite series 2001 was good top to bottom and will give you an idea on what strong style is about.  I'm not really a fan of nj heavyweights so I won't recommend anything there.  M-pro get any tape from 96 and you'll be fine.  some of the first few tv blocks of toryumen are good also.  And if you really want to get dirty get the ddt juior tourney from 2000 or 2001, I forgot but its different from other stuff

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

Definitely get all the Misawa vs. Kawada you can lay your hands on. Kobashi vs. Misawa from Giant Series 97 is a must-see. Michinoku Pro in 96 is awesome as well. Just stay away from Taue's singles matches. Definitely my least favorite of AJPW's heavies. (that i've seen.)

 

Don't listen to him (not all of it at least).  Taue has had some exceptional singles matches.  I advise you pick up:

 

Taue vs Kobashi 3/95

Taue vs Kawada 4/95

Taue vs Misawa 4/95

Taue vs Misawa 9/95

Taue vs Williams 4/96

[Guest Jubuki]

Damn you people not going to the wall for the Joshi.  Figures I gotta bring the love.

 

Mid-Summer Typhoon 8/15/92 & Dream Rush 11/26/92 are where you start if you want the best, historically speaking.  If you want the best of the new stuff, you go with the ARSION shows from 98 & 99 or the AJW Satellite TV from July '00 (beginning with the 4-hr. tag tournament) forward.

[Guest]

my bad jubuki, I only have a little joshi so I can't stick my opinion in there

[Guest Jubuki]

Ain't no thang - I'm more disappointed/surprised at the lack of "intro to Lucha" questions here...peeps need to love the burly armdraggin' bastards.

 

On the topic of New Japan heavyweights, there's been some great stuff, but it's hidden away between big pockets of crap.  I'd probably go after a custom tape.  Mutoh's been involved in a lot of great matches -- vs. Chono 8/11/91, vs. Hase 12/14/92, vs. Hashimoto 8/15/95, vs. Tenryu twice in 1999 -- but it's good to largely stay clear of the Muta stuff.  There've been a couple of feuds that produced goodness centered around Hashimoto - the Tenryu vs. NJ from 93-94, and the UWFi vs. NJ in 95 & 96.  The Tenryu/Hash from 2/17/94 is the high point/blowoff of that feud, while Hashimoto vs. Takada from 4/29/96 is probably the second-best heavyweight match from that period (with the Vader/Inoki from 1/4/96 passing it).  I haven't seen Hase/Sasaki vs Mutoh/Chono 11/1/90 or Mutoh vs Chono 1/4/93 to say much about them, but others have sung their praises.

 

All Japan isn't all about the 90's, either - the AJ Classics from 97 & 98 have some surprisingly good/great stuff there.  Plus, there are familiar faces: Flair, Steamboat, Race, Brody, the Funks, Hansen, usually working good matches.  Also, get all the Destroyer you can; he's Number One and the Best.  I'd probably take even a step further back in my watching of the (relatively) newer stuff and look at the Jumbo/Tenryu feud in depth -- not just the title matches -- before moving on to Misawa/Jumbo.

 

And Maeda's UWF (and UWFi for that matter) is some fabulous stuff if you can get into it.  Nobuhiko Takada is your Other Master, after Destroyer.  The world is full of great wrestling.

[Guest thefrenchargel]

I need to get more joshi. I've only seen a couple tag matches and an iron man..(or woman, rather) match, and I'm not too familiar with any of the big names outside of Akira Hokuto and Toyoda. What I've seen has ruled it though. The main thing I disklike about Taue is the fact that when placed side by side with Misawa, Kobashi, and Kawada, he really stands out as the worst wrestler of the 4. I've seen that Taue/Williams match from 96, I thought it was awful, IMO. I don't understand why it gets as much praise as it does. As for the other matches with Kobashi, Kawada, and Misawa, those guys could have a good match with anyone if they really wanted.

[Guest Jubuki]

A lot of the times, Misawa & Kobashi can't have matches up to 'their standards' with each other, let alone putting on good matches with anyone.  In the end, the late 90's All Japan mindset became nothing more than "can this move beat Wrestler X?" rather than being as meaningful as it had been in the first half of the decade.  Taue ended up as good at the early style as the others; he couldn't bump like the others, and maybe he didn't hit as hard, but by 95 he was as smart as them.  Appreciating him is just finding a way to appreciate the things he was doing, beyond "workrate" or something as simple as moves, to make a match better.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Taue ended up as good at the early style as the others; he couldn't bump like the others, and maybe he didn't hit as hard, but by 95 he was as smart as them.  Appreciating him is just finding a way to appreciate the things he was doing, beyond "workrate" or something as simple as moves, to make a match better."

 

I think that Taue ranks ahead of Kobashi in my book from 4/95-12/96 as far as the overall wrestler goes.  I think the key statement made here was that he got "real smart, real fast."  Taue doesn't even bother me in the early 1990's as Jumbo always was able to carry his group.  In fact, I would take early Taue most times over early 90's Fuchi.  Those Kawada v Taue match up's in the 6 man tags of '90-92 are more epic in crowd heat and excitement than I have seen in the WWF since Bret Hart left.

 

Tim

[Guest Spanky]

"Those Kawada v Taue match up's in the 6 man tags of '90-92 are more epic in crowd heat and excitement than I have seen in the WWF since Bret Hart left."

 

Hell yeah, those matchups were great.  I loved the angle at Korakuen Hall with those two going at it during the Battle Royal, setting up their bloody singles match a while later.  The heat between the two was something I liked better about their rivalry than Jumbo-Misawa.  Misawa hardly ever seemed to get fired up, but Kawada and Taue always went at each other hard.

 

As for Taue, he didn't have the natural gifts that his peers did (although he matched them with the Tower Of Hair), but he eventually turned into a fine performer.  

 

 

Simon

[Guest thefrenchargel]

Seems to me like Taue matches are an acquired taste, then. My big problem is that Taue's bumping is poor compared to Kobashi/Kawada/Misawa, and overall, I think his matches come off as a sloppy bunch of kicks and chokeslams. A hot crowd and excitement doesn't make a great match if the work is sub-par. He also did the single worst Plancha I've ever seen. Not like that matters, really, and it doesn't figure in to whether I like him or not at all, but he takes that honor..heh. One of the first AJPW matches I ever watched was Taue vs. Williams from 96. I kept looking back at the tape list, which had the match pegged at *****. After several repeated viewings, I can't even fathom how a sane, sober person can give that match a rating that high. Taue's probably the most overrated wrestler, IMO.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Seems to me like Taue matches are an acquired taste, then. My big problem is that Taue's bumping is poor compared to Kobashi/Kawada/Misawa, and overall, I think his matches come off as a sloppy bunch of kicks and chokeslams. A hot crowd and excitement doesn't make a great match if the work is sub-par. He also did the single worst Plancha I've ever seen. Not like that matters, really, and it doesn't figure in to whether I like him or not at all, but he takes that honor..heh. One of the first AJPW matches I ever watched was Taue vs. Williams from 96. I kept looking back at the tape list, which had the match pegged at *****. After several repeated viewings, I can't even fathom how a sane, sober person can give that match a rating that high. Taue's probably the most overrated wrestler, IMO."

 

WHat are the key Taue matches that you have seen?  Also, have you seen his early 90's work compared to his mid 1990's work?  

 

I am just wondering because if you tell me what you have seen, I am hoping that maybe I can maybe help you see how Taue is not over rated and is actually better than Kobashi a lot of times from April of '95-end of 1996.

 

Tim

[Guest Jubuki]

Taue vs. Doc is very much not even close to that good...but it doesn't mean Taue's bad.  A good example of him taking an OK match and making it far better is the tag title switch from 1/17/97, where he runs the ending and does a lot to make it much more worthwhile.  Even after the 95-97 period, he was still doing a lot of those little things with the right opponents, although he was starting to look old.

 

For some reason, I see a lot of the Destroyer in Taue.

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

Hashimoto vs. Takada from 4/29/96 is probably the second-best heavyweight match from that period (with the Vader/Inoki from 1/4/96 passing it).

Hmm... after looking at the G-1 tournament during 1996, I'd venture to say that Hashimoto vs Chosyu was better than the Takada vs Hashimoto match.  I found the title switch to be a little too short for my liking and there were a couple of moments where both guys looked just a little lost, no doubt a result of them never having worked together before.  I'd probably put the 8/96 just under the 1/96 but not by much.  Both matches are about heavy beatings but I doubt people would hold Vader vs Inoki in such high regard if it wasn't a 53 year old man taking the beating.

[Guest Jubuki]

Parallelism - when I referred to "that period," it pointed back to my comment regarding UWFi vs. NJ, as the Hash/Tenryu recommendation pointed back to the Tenryu vs NJ comment.  Hash/Takada becomes its own cutoff date, so to speak.