Lots of comments on wrestler's letter regarding...

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

Lots of comments on wrestlers' letter regarding Feinstein

 

I think you made a good decision by publishing the Feinstein related article. While in the past I had like many others have heard rumors of Rob being gay it really doesn't matter except for the fact wrestling fans in general seem to be homophobic.

 

Coming from a family who not only embraces but supports the gay culture because of a younger brother that is gay and from political circumstances personally being am activist from a young high school age to having a closeted best friend come out to me before his own parents knew. Dave I applaud for not submitting said name.

 

From a personal opinion and standpoint there is a clear difference in being gay and being a pedophile. While some grow up in an unaffected non abusive home and later discover that they are indeed gay is in my opinion natural. However as author of this letter points out some gays are indeed more than someone who chooses there lifestyle naturally and were in the past subject to some kind of sexual abuse themselves and for whatever reason was never able to seek help thus creating a never ending cycle of abuse until one victim at least gets help.

 

I do feel that Rob Feinstein is indeed the victim in this situation and somewhere down the line his close friends and associates will learn and hopefully understand.

 

The bigger issue though is PervertedJustice themselves. You must ask if a vigilante sp? is ever right, and in the cases and entrapements if you will that PervertedJustice conducts now seemingly coast to coast if it ever will be the right thing to do. Whether it be Portland, OR, or Philadelphia, PA is PervertedJustice doing any good or just creating more hate than good?

 

Shilo Robinson

 

I don't know who the WWE wrestler was who posted that letter, but I do have ideas of who it would be and this is what I have to say in response to this wrestler.

 

I was one of the few who was once 14 as well, and at 14 we are capable of certain decision, some of them regarding sex however, there are also many things that 14 year olds can't determine or realize. At that age being so easily impressionable, for any adult man or woman to take advantage of that 14 year old is just ridiculous to defend. I've had the unfortunate experience of knowing someone very close to me who I grew up with since the age of 12 years old who was being sexually abused for years until they could finally get up the courage to get themself out of that situation and she deals with that every day of her life and she's currently 25 years old. Another relative of mine has cared for a foster child who at age 11 was used as a prostitute by her drug addicted mother in exchange for drugs and drug money from other junky "boyfriends". Is this a difference situation? Maybe, but more than likely not. At age 14, had Brandon really existed, how did Feinstein not know what would prompt this kid, this kid, lets not forget that word here, this kid to go into homosexual chat rooms and entrust potential sexual experiences to 32 year old men. Lets not forget 32 year old men who used his mild fame and persona as a "wrestler" to lure this boy into this meeting. That is what we like to call in these parts, a scumbag.

 

Lets not be sheep, how about lets not have sex with 14 year old boys or girls if we are a 32 year old grown man. Nobody is condemning homosexuality here. Rob did not try to meet up with a 28 year old man to have sex, nobody would be discussing this if that were the case, he was trying to meet a 14 year old boy. When rob was 18 this "boy" would've been an infant. Yes some people are 48 and married to 30 year old people so its the same age difference, but 30 and 14 are worlds apart so please don't respond with something along those lines if you even decide to respond at all.

 

In part I understand what you are saying, however I'm also stupid sometimes. How can you use terms like don't be sheep as if "the man" wants us to not have sex with 14 year old children? Don't be sheep is a term used when discussing things like, why did Backstreet Boy records sell so well? Not in regards to having sex with 14 year old children.

 

At 14 if you decide to have sex with a 15 year old or a 16 year old, you have two people who made a right or wrong decision, not one person who is on the verge of potentially knowing what is right and wrong for them, and one who is over 30 years old and should know better by now. If you're not sleeping with 14 year old kids just because it's illegal, please go away, the reason people are following "like sheep" to not sleep with 14 year old kids is because THEY ARE 14 YEAR OLD KIDS!!!!!!!!! KIDS!!!!!!!!

 

What the hell could possibly be wrong with you? Rob is obviously a friend of yours, or you've worked for or with him in ECW or ROH at some point so yeah this is a tough blow to take when you find out one of your friends would possibly have sex with one of your 14 year old nephews, or brothers, or daughters, or cousins, or sisters. Perhaps you already knew this about Rob, I don't know who you are, or anything about you other then you like to think outside the box in terms of having oral, or anal sex with 14 year old children.

 

You have a right to your opinion, however, the parents of a 14 year old boy or girl who some 32 year old man or woman has sex with also have a right, although not a legal one, to "end your push" if we can use a pro wrestling term. Some 14 year olds are very mature and intelligent, on the flip side of that coin, some 14 year olds set himself on fire and dive off of roofs into sandboxes full of glass to impress their friends and "be hardcore!!! BE HARDCORE!!!!!" So you make the call. Is diving off of a room on fire, into a sandbox full of broken glass the same as having sexual intercourse with a 14 year old boy or girl. I'm not sure, like the sheep I am, I have yet to be told by "the man" what to think.

 

Spend some time with people who at age 14 were old enough to make a decision not to be sexually molested by a family member, stranger, teacher, or 32 year old scumbag who drives a silver Lexus and see how well adjusted they were to make that decision. Have a 14 year old son or daughter and have them come home with a 32 year old man or woman and see how quickly you offer them a cold beverage. Wake up, please, think about what you said and realize how your buddy wanted to have sex with a 14 year old boy who he was trying to impress with "being a wrestler and the owner of a wrestling company".

 

Chris Najdek

[email protected]

 

It scares me that someone actually considers Feinstein's actions defendable. It scares me that this person is on the road with WWE with that mindset. It scares me most of all that WWE is coming to my town next weekend, and the writer may be here too.

 

Even arguing that Feinstein was setup is no excuse-- how many junkies and casual offfenders are caught everyday trying to solicit prostitutes or buy drugs, or have the intent to-- and those are victimless crimes supposedly? I personally think Rob is actually LUCKY that this was a TV station/Website and NOT a law enforcement agency.

 

Steve Murphy

 

You will all know by now the ins and outs (no pun intended) of this story - ROH co-owner and RF Video operator Rob Feinstein was recently caught out by a vigilante group trying to hook up with a child he met via an internet chat site. It sounds appalling and generally is - but I can't help but think that many people have overeacted. ROH, as a company, haven't. They had no choice but to severe all ties with RF (or at least publically claim to) - the basic gist of the story is that RF is a "pedophile" which of course, on closer inspection isn't actually quite correct, but nonetheless, that's the public conception so ROH really had no choice but to dump RF ASAP.

 

I am not condoning the abuse of children in any way, shape or form (infact a relative of mine was a victim of child abuse for several years) BUT there is a huge difference between what RF has done and the actions of a pedophile. It is not my intention to defend RF but to merely point out some truths regarding the story:

 

The "child" (there never was an actual child involved in the sting) RF went to meet was 14 years old and was consenting to meet RF. The "child" had also previously told RF of his sexuality and of some previous sexual experience - this is where it is wrong for anyone to claim that RF is a pedophile. I agree wholeheartedly that a 14 year old isn't quite mature enough emotionally and in most cases physically to accept the advances of an over thirty year old adult but the "child" put it over to RF that he was. There is a HUGE difference between someone luring a 6 or 7 year old into sexual practices and wanting to hook up with a consenting and, from the chat transcript, experienced young adult.

 

Should Feinstein be prosecuted? Certainly.

 

Is he a pedophile? No.

 

Regards

 

Kevin Malton.

 

I wanted to rebut the letter on your website today. I am going to rebuttal it one paragraph at time. If you post this, go ahead and post my name. . I just want people know that this letter is disturbing for wrestling and society in general. Thanks

 

The first thing that I would like to say is that everyone is entitled to their opinions and that is why I am adding mine.

 

Rob Feinstein a victim? You've got to be kidding me. I would not consider Rob to be a pervert, but in no way is he a victim. Making him out that way is ridiculous. Poor Rob wanted to hook up with a fourteen year old and was busted.

 

Everyone has their own morals and mine say that , yes, Rob was going to do something that is immoral.

 

Based on the transcripts, Rob was looking for some company with a 14 year old boy. Comparing this to cheating on a diet is insane. Rob's action could have potentially ruined a young, impressionable life. This comparison is very, very different, embarrassing and I agree with this wrestler for hiding his identity. This is a circumstance that could have been avoided by just saying no. Calling this nature and a predetermined tendency is bullshit.

 

Rob was telling the boy that he had a relationship to make himself not look like a pervert. Guys do this all the time, gay or straight. He was creating a comfort zone. The boyfriend angle is garbage. I would like to say once again that is not about straight or gay. It is about a potential pedophile. I too, feel bad about Rob having this problem, but in NO WAY is he a victim!

 

Goddammit, this is not about Rob being gay. This wrestler is trying to snowjob the facts. Using that "looks older" defense is weak. This wrestler is condoning these actions from Rob.

 

Yes, there is a problem with experimenting with somebody as a 32 year old when the other person is 14. It is immoral for a 32 year old for the reasons mentioned earlier. A legal line was crossed and that is that makes this immoral.

 

Rob is not a victim in this case. He will be tried for potentially breaking the law. If guilty, he will be punished and counseled. I will not think of him or his former business any differently. If he needs help, I hope he gets it.

 

I don't know the author of the letter and I do not know Rob, but something has to be said about the letter. The wrestler who wrote this letter is sick. I would never want to live by this person's standards. The letter could be considered a bigger black-eye than Rob's legal situation. I bet that Rob is embarrassed by the letter. It puts him in a worse light. The author of this letter needs help, probably more than Rob.

 

Dan Sager

 

"At 14, most children look like a child, as opposed to a young adult. But, we never got to see the picture of Brandon. He may have looked older and more mature. He definitely sounded older and mature to Rob, and he even said to Rob that he can easily pass for 18 or older. That does not take away from the fact that Rob knew he was 14, but it helps you understand, to some extent, what Rob's mindset might have been."

 

 

That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard from a wrestler and that covers a lot of ground. Basically, he is saying that RF knew he was 14, but he may have looked/sounded 18, so that makes it right. Absolutely ridiculous logic.

 

Only thing resembling a valid point in the letter is when the worker implies the double standard of wrestlers bagging 16 year old girls is "ok" in eyes of many, but bagging teen boy is wrong. I can at least see that point in that dribble of stunningly idiotic logic.

 

No one (governements / society) is asking whether we agree with the parameters that are the laws of the land. But they are there and need to be respected / enforced or lobbied to be changed. Rob knew the parameters and had full knowledge that he was crossing them and did so intentionally.

 

Name withheld by request

 

I just wanted to express my respect for you for publishing the piece by the WWE wrestler who defended Rob Feinstein. While I have to disagree with almost everything that was said (sorry, but trying to have sex with a 14 year old, no matter how you try to spin it, is about as disgustingly evil as it gets), I think it showed a level of professionalism that you provided a forum for someone to defend Rob. I think you easily could have said, "No thanks, I don't want this on my site." But true to showing all sides, you went ahead and put it up.

 

I'm sure you'll catch grief from people who think it's a subtle endorsement of those sentiments, despite the clearly labeled warning that it was not. (Common, wrestling fans thought Bret Hart was showing up at Mania after weeks of being told he wasn't, I doubt they're paying to close attention sometimes) And while I'm somewhat disturbed that someone is trying to portray a potential rapist as a victim, I feel that you putting it up was the right thing to do, from a journalistic standpoint.

 

And people wonder why I always defend the Observer as the most credible newsletter there is today.

 

-mike-

 

I just read the "Pro Wrestler take on Rob Feinstein" article and can't express to you how angry it made me. I should preface my comments with the fact that I am a police officer and have been on the job for approximately 10 years. I worked in detectives for 4 of those years and have investigated both sex and Internet crimes. It is this type of rhetoric that makes our job so difficult. What this wrestler is missing, is that what is and isn't moral is decided by society as a whole in what we call "laws." These laws are a reflection on what is and is not acceptable behavior in society. I do agree with the writer relative to Feinstein's state of mind and do consider them mitigating circumstances. The determination of whether or not a particular behavior is right or wrong, moral or immoral, is a simple one for this issue. Is it legal or illegal to elicit a minor via the Internet? If the behavior is illegal, by the very nature of our republic, it is immoral. If any segment of our population disagrees with this notion, they have the power through democracy, to change the law and permit the behavior. The United States Supreme Court affirmed this viewpoint in its BOWERS v. HARDWICK, 478 U.S. 186 (1986) decision. I agree wholeheartedly that a way of life that is odd or even erratic but interferes with no rights or interests of others should not be condemned because it is different. However, a sexual act with a person who cannot legally give consent is illegal. There are no privacy rights for illegal activity. It is illegal to engage in a sexual relationship with certain family members-even if those family members consent to this activity. Why? Because it is contrary to the greater good of society. In short, the forum in which to argue the morality or immorality of a law is in the legislature. Not after one has been caught engaging in illegal behavior.

 

 

 

"So how immoral is it, if at the age of 14, I want to experiment sexually with a 32 year old?"

 

 

 

Society as a whole, considering the health and safety of children, says it is very immoral--in fact the "relationship" would be considered child molestation. Preying on confused, naive and often times, immature children is wrong. They cannot, legally, consent to a sexual relationship. Sexual relationships are inherently complicated especially those involving minors and even more so homosexuals.

 

 

 

"Obviously, cheating on a diet and dealing with homosexual tendencies which could be illegal are 2 very, very different things. But we must ask ourselves, how different are they? In both instances, you know they are wrong but you may not be able to resist. Does that make you evil? I do not think so."

 

 

 

It is reprehensible to compare a diet, in which someone may suffer from excess caloric intake and possibly weight gain, to a sex act with someone who is unable to consent to a sexual relationship. The reason this is against the law is that a child does not have the mental faculties to engage in a sexual relationship. Evil? As us Christians say, hate the sin and not the sinner. It is not our place to judge someone as evil or not. Condemn them for their actions? Yes. Write them off as evil? No.

 

 

 

"I am sure I am in the minority here, but after reading the transcript and seeing the news footage, I felt horrible for Rob. This was not a victimless crime. The victim, however, I feel was Rob."

 

 

 

I too feel sorry for Feinstein. His situation, (need to stay in the closet; confusion; secrecy; break up, etc.) certainly should be considered a mitigating circumstance. If one approaches the situation with an open mind and considers all sides of an issue, it is obvious that Feinstein needs help. He needs help in accepting his homosexuality and needs the skills to deal with it. This does not however, justify an attempted tryst with a juvenile. Again, hate the sin and not the sinner. He needs to be treated for his problems. Whether they are denial of his homosexuality or a fondness for young boys. He needs to get treatment in order to develop healthy age-appropriate sexual relationships. The victim in all of this is society. Contrary to what people think, citizens do not press charges, the government presses charges on behalf of its citizens. This behavior is dangerous to society and not to just the one person physically effected by it. The government certainly needs victims to cooperate in order to make prosecution easier, but this is not a requirement. Try "dropping the charges" after you have been stabbed by your significant other. It won't happen. They may have to drag you to the stand to testify against your will, but they will prosecute. The crime is serious enough that it jeopardizes society and not just the victim in the crime.

 

 

 

"He definitely sounded older and mature to Rob, and he even said to Rob that he can easily pass for 18 or older. That does not take away from the fact that Rob knew he was 14, but it helps you understand, to some extent, what Rob's mindset might have been. "

 

 

 

Again, mitigating circumstances? Yes. Justification? No. Incidentally, this is the defense used by virtually all the pedophiles I've ever investigated.

 

 

 

"I know when I was 14, I was making serious and important choices about life, my goals and about sex and alcohol and drugs."

 

 

 

And I'm sure they were all good decisions. Listen, whether you like it or not, society has determined that a 14 year old lacks the maturity to enter into a sexual relationship. Period. Whether or not this is the correct interpretation is a matter for the legislature to decide.

 

 

 

"Is there that big of a difference between being 17 years, 364 days old and 18 years old?"

 

 

 

There always has to be a cut off. What is the difference between x amount of votes and y amount of votes? What is the difference between .08 and .07 blood alcohol content? What is the difference between baseballs hit 540 feet and one hit 541 feet? The answer? EVERYTHING.

 

 

 

"Do not be sheep. Be a shepherd and determine for yourself, without prejudice and bias, just how immoral Rob Feinstein is."

 

 

 

I am a shepherd. I police for a living. What tools do I use to determine whether or not someone is "immoral" or not? The law. We are a nation of laws and not of men. By its very nature, the law is not prejudice or bias. It is people who apply the law who can be bias or prejudiced. The law is comprised of rules governing accepted conduct in our society. These laws are black and white. If someone feels that murder or theft is acceptable behavior, can he engage in these acts? No. Society has determined that theft and murder are contrary to the greater good of society.

 

 

 

I too hope that Feinstein has the strength to make it through this. I am a Christian man and am a father to a two-year old boy. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone fails. There is no man without sin. It is not my job to judge others-nor should it be. Jesus Christ said as much. It is, however, my job/our job to ensure the safety of others. In order to do so, people like Feinstein have to be dealt with. His behavior is not acceptable by society's standards. He needs to be punished for his actions, to deter others from this type of behavior, and rehabilitated so that he does not continue it. That is how our system deals with offenders. Despite its shortcomings, we have the best criminal justice system in the world and I am proud to be a part of it. Mr. Anonymous Wrestler, I understand your "judge lest ye be judged" statements and agree with many of your observations. What you fail to see however is that this behavior is illegal and contrary to the greater good of the youth of our country. Therefore, it is without doubt, immoral.

 

 

 

 

James P. Sartell

[email protected]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Dave,

I don't even know if you were looking for feedback to the letter written

by a wrestler about Rob Feinstein, but I have some. I don't agree with

the whole homosexual thing at all, that's just a personal choice, but

the issue about the age, I understand what the writer was talking about.

I have never been involved with someone younger than 16 (which is the

legal age in my state) but have been attracted to 15 year olds and 14

year olds in the past, and just telling other people brought accusations

of being a molester. And just like the writer of this letter stated, a

14 or 15 year old, (girl especially) can appear to look MUCH older, and

act much older too. I have met 15 year olds who acted more mature than

18 or 19 year olds I have known. The "set number" for what is legal and

what is not is an issue I've had trouble with a lot in the past because

of the exact argument the writer said. What is the difference between

15 years, 364 days, and 16 years old? Apparently jailtime is the

answer. People can't understand the difference between being attracted

to a young person who physically appears to be 18 or 19, and being

attracted to a young person who looks like a child. Agewise there might

not be a difference, but technically there is. Without seeing the

picture of the boy that Rob was talking to, we can't see if this was the

case.

I know it's not really possible but I wish there was a test that would

judge whether a person was legal based on their maturity, not their

chronological age.

Jason Parker

 

Credit: WrestlingObserver.com