The 5/2/02 dome show...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The next NJPW Dome Show is going to have involvement from a bunch of other promotions, the big exception being AJPW, but it still looks rather mediocre anyways:

 

1. Katsuyori Shibata vs. Wataru Inoue: I like both guys, but they're both still green and juniors get very little heat in the Dome.

 

2. Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Kintaro Kanemura: I haven't seen Sekimoto and nothing recent from Kanemura, so I'm in the dark on this one. I've heard Daisuke doesn't do deathmatches, so hopefully this won't be garbaged up too much.

 

3. Tiger Mask 3 (Kanemoto) & 4 vs. El Samurai & Black Tiger: Should be a fun sprint, but I don't really get the booking since last I checked Kanemoto was playing the heel leader of the T-2000 Jr.s and was feuding with Tanaka. Again, junior matches usually suffer at the Dome, and I doubt this will be any different.

 

4. Yumiko Hotta & Manami Toyota vs. Momoe Nakanishi & Kaoru Ito: I'm no authority on Joshie, but most of these girls seem to be regarded highly, so it could be a good addition.

 

5. Minoru Tanaka & Jushin Liger vs. Gedoh & Jadoh: Tanaka and Liger are both amazing and Jadoh and Gedoh rule right now, so hopefully the Dome crowd will give this one a little respect.

 

6. Hiroshi Tanahashi & Kensuke Sasaki vs. The Steiner Brothers: One word: Ugh. The Steiner's are terrible, Sasaki is unmotivated and Tanahashi is too green to salvage anything. He seems like the obvious fall boy here, but who knows, maybe Sasaki will get his revenge from the two-minute-job to Rick from last month. I don't really care either way.

 

7. Giant Silva vs. Giant Singh: Well, there isn't a single match that I want to see less, so I can only pray that they make this one short...if this gets out of negative stars than I'll rejoice.

 

8. Manabu Nakanishi vs. Bas Rutten: I'm guessing this is more of Inoki's shooter rubbish. As previously-stated, I hope it's short.

 

9. Tadao Yasuda vs. Don Frye: More shooter crap. Frey is almost passable, while Yasuda is horrific. Hopefully Frye wins as a reward for defeating Shamrock in Pride, but nothing can make up for the horror that was Yasuda's title reign.

 

10. Masa Chono vs. Mitsuharu Misawa: If this match had taken place a decade ago it would have been wonderfull, but now? They're saying this one might not even make TV, and I don't know if that's really such a bad thing.

 

11. IWGP Title Match: Yuji Nagata vs. Yoshihiro Takayama: Well, this could be alright. Nagata is building momentum again and Takayama is caryable, so this might not be that bad. It probably won't be anything worth hunting for, though.

 

Overall, the show just looks lackluster from top to bottom to me. I really don't get why they have to relly on other promotions rather than just ussing the large amount of talent they have. Oh well, hopefully Chono/Misawa will at least fill up the Dome.

[Guest Jubuki]

1. Katsuyori Shibata vs. Wataru Inoue: I like both guys, but they're both still green and juniors get very little heat in the Dome.

Ought to be good, but it is the wrong environment...although the ladies got great heat in the Dome their one time.

 

2. Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Kintaro Kanemura:

Sekimoto's OK; Kanemura is ekkkkkkk.  Probably suck unless it gets crazy.

 

3. Tiger Mask 3 (Kanemoto) & 4 vs. El Samurai & Black Tiger:

Could be pretty good, could be average.  Sammy's definitely on the downhill, Kanemoto's never been good, IV isn't terribly familiar with the others, and Silver King's got to do the hard work.  Probably not outstanding.

 

4. Yumiko Hotta & Manami Toyota vs. Momoe Nakanishi & Kaoru Ito:

"Highly regarded" and "capable of having good matches together" are entirely different things.  Momo and Ito can't carry Hotta between the two of them, and Toyota doesn't always come up with the right things to do.  Their TLTB final was severely underwhelming at Korakuen; this could be worse if we get Stupid Toyota.

 

5. Minoru Tanaka & Jushin Liger vs. Gedoh & Jadoh:

Possible match of the night.  That is, if Liger works most of it, which he won't.  Tanaka can execute, but he doesn't have Kendall Windham's grasp of ring psychology, let alone that of the other three.  Even Jado is better than him in that respect.  New champs, at least...

 

6. Hiroshi Tanahashi & Kensuke Sasaki vs. The Steiner Brothers:

If I were a former IWGP champ jobbing to Rick Steiner, I'd be unmotivated, too.  And it was an 8-minute job, btw.  Sasaki's going to be the best thing about that match, and, even though he's better by leaps and bounds now than 3 years ago, it's still a scary thought.

 

7. Giant Silva vs. Giant Singh:

Loser leaves town?  Winner leaves town?  Please?

 

8. Manabu Nakanishi vs. Bas Rutten:

Oh boy...

 

9. Tadao Yasuda vs. Don Frye: More shooter crap.

Here's to another of Frye's one-punch wonders...

 

10. Masa Chono vs. Mitsuharu Misawa:

I'm the one person who really wants to see this.

 

11. IWGP Title Match: Yuji Nagata vs. Yoshihiro Takayama:

If Takayama has his shoot-style working shoes on, this could be a decent little match.  Nagata and Fujita came together for a damned good affair last June; I don't see Takayama as worse than Fujita, and he's far better at drawing heat.  But, I don't see this playing well in the Dome.  Sounds better for Yokohama or Budokan.

[Guest Stuart]

>> Overall, the show just looks lackluster from top to bottom to me. I really don't get why they have to relly on other promotions rather than just ussing the large amount of talent they have. <<

 

I'm a big New Japan fan, but what exactly do they have right now to fill 60,000 seats at the Tokyo Dome?

 

Chono vs. Nagata?

 

Tenzan vs. Nagata?

 

Nagata vs. Nakanishi?

 

Tenzan vs. Nakanishi?

 

All good matches, but none of those guys except Chono are mainstream draws yet. New Japan has for years used outsiders for shows, such as Takada, Tenryu, Ogawa, Kawada and Flair. Right now, their mainstream draws are Chono and Choshu, the latter of whom gets injured just walking. Guys like Nagata, Sasaki, Tenzan and Nakanishi are just mid-level draws right now. They may fill 10,000 seat buildings, but they just aren't in a position to fill 60,000. So it was either a card filled with outside pro wrestlers or a card filled with outside Inoki shooters. Despite some Inoki-ism, the majority is pro wrestling, with an old fashioned approach. The best thing to do would be to *use* the outside guys to boost existing home stars. There is absolutely no way Rutten should beat Nakanishi, but yet there's a big chance he will, just because he's "legit". I don't mind Frye beating Yasuda, because Frye always has been and can again be useful to NJPW (not too bad a worker anymore, has charisma, understands how to get heat). Overall, besides some matches in the middle, the show looked pretty good to me. Chono vs. Misawa should be carried by the spectacle, if not the work. But remember, both men have sharp minds and have historically had good matches not based around flashy moves, so they could surprise you. Misawa vs. Takayama was an excellent match, so there's no reason why Nagata, who is better than Misawa now, can't have a very good, very stiff, physical match with Takayama.

[Guest wolverine]

"4. Yumiko Hotta & Manami Toyota vs. Momoe Nakanishi & Kaoru Ito: I'm no authority on Joshie, but most of these girls seem to be regarded highly, so it could be a good addition."

 

Hotta's a slug, and will only bring the match down.  She isn't regarded highly by anyone I've seen.  The other three are great, but it's the wrong environment, so they aren't going to be given the time that they need to put on a great match, not that they could with Hotta anyway.

 

Whatever.  Maybe NJ was afraid if they put Kaoru Ito vs. Momoe Nakanishi in a 20 min singles match, they'd steal the show.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Hotta's a slug, and will only bring the match down.  She isn't regarded highly by anyone I've seen.  The other three are great, but it's the wrong environment, so they aren't going to be given the time that they need to put on a great match, not that they could with Hotta anyway.

I had never heard of Hotta before, but the other three are generally well though-of as far as I can tell, so that's mainly why I said that. I do find it odd that they would pick someone so bad to represent them on a Dome show, though.

[Guest wolverine]

"I had never heard of Hotta before, but the other three are generally well though-of as far as I can tell, so that's mainly why I said that. I do find it odd that they would pick someone so bad to represent them on a Dome show, though."

 

I've only seen one Hotta singles match that I'd call **** and that was against Toyota in her prime (1995), which says a lot more for Toyota than it does for Hotta.  

 

Actually, at this point, I'd be happy if I never saw another Hotta or Shinobu Kandori match in my life.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I'm a big New Japan fan, but what exactly do they have right now to fill 60,000 seats at the Tokyo Dome?

 

Chono vs. Nagata?

 

Tenzan vs. Nagata?

 

Nagata vs. Nakanishi?

 

Tenzan vs. Nakanishi?

 

All good matches, but none of those guys except Chono are mainstream draws yet. New Japan has for years used outsiders for shows, such as Takada, Tenryu, Ogawa, Kawada and Flair. Right now, their mainstream draws are Chono and Choshu, the latter of whom gets injured just walking. Guys like Nagata, Sasaki, Tenzan and Nakanishi are just mid-level draws right now. They may fill 10,000 seat buildings, but they just aren't in a position to fill 60,000. So it was either a card filled with outside pro wrestlers or a card filled with outside Inoki shooters. Despite some Inoki-ism, the majority is pro wrestling, with an old fashioned approach. The best thing to do would be to *use* the outside guys to boost existing home stars. There is absolutely no way Rutten should beat Nakanishi, but yet there's a big chance he will, just because he's "legit". I don't mind Frye beating Yasuda, because Frye always has been and can again be useful to NJPW (not too bad a worker anymore, has charisma, understands how to get heat). Overall, besides some matches in the middle, the show looked pretty good to me. Chono vs. Misawa should be carried by the spectacle, if not the work. But remember, both men have sharp minds and have historically had good matches not based around flashy moves, so they could surprise you. Misawa vs. Takayama was an excellent match, so there's no reason why Nagata, who is better than Misawa now, can't have a very good, very stiff, physical match with Takayama.

I guess I do understand that outsiders must be used to a certain degree, but it just seems to expose the company's instability when it uses actions such as those. Plus, New Japan doesn't seem to be booking to help their current stars at all. Sasaki, for example, is totally wasted against the Steiner's, as is Nakanishi against Rutten. Hell, Tenzan doesn't even look to be booked at all on this show, and he's one of the most over wrestlers in the company. If they want to re-build Nagata, why are they putting him against Takayama instead of giving him a win over Akiyama like he should have gotten on 1/4? I know Takayama is a Pride guy and everything revolves around shoots now, but what has he done to signify main-eventing a Dome Show? The booking, despite some promising matches, doesn't even make sense to me.

[Guest Stuart]

>> I guess I do understand that outsiders must be used to a certain degree, but it just seems to expose the company's instability when it uses actions such as those. <<

 

Well yeah, maybe, but Sasaki vs. Kawada, Muto vs. Takada, Hashimoto vs. Takada, Inoki vs. Tenryu, etc., all relyed on outsiders to draw. Barring Inoki coming out of retirement for a match, New Japan has just nothing right now that can draw by itself, so they have to do the slow climb and work with NOAH and/or ZERO-ONE (bringing in Hash, Otani, etc., full time might give NJPW a big drawing program).

 

>> Plus, New Japan doesn't seem to be booking to help their current stars at all. Sasaki, for example, is totally wasted against the Steiner's <<

 

I don't know. It might seem a waste, but there could be two logical reasons for either team winning.

 

1. Sasaki and Tanahashi beat each other to a pulp (literally) on TV a few weeks ago, forming one of those mentor/disciple teams as a result. If they beat the Steiners, they beat a famous team and are elevated as a tandem.

2. If the Steiners win, they can challenge for the IWGP Tag Title and job to Chono & Tenzan, strengthening that team as well.

 

>> as is Nakanishi against Rutten <<

 

If Nakanishi wins this, it won't be so bad. If Rutten wins, I'll be totally disgusted, because this guy means nothing in Japan right now, while Nakanishi is one of the few remaining NJPW wrestlers with some star power. Nakanishi should beat him with a German suplex hold. Using outsiders with an aura like this does help New Japan wrestlers, as long as they come out looking strongest. Inoki and Hashimoto became cultural icons using this formula, often losing to shooters, then winning the blowoff matches with them. Nakanishi did the same with Yasuda, Goodridge and Murakami last year, but the execution of the angle was somewhat poor, as it was mixed in the whole shooter kills wrestler mess.

 

>> Hell, Tenzan doesn't even look to be booked at all on this show, and he's one of the most over wrestlers in the company. <<

 

Tenzan & Norton vs. Hashimoto & Ogawa has been booked. Just being in this match makes Tenzan look important, because not only did Tenzan provoke Hashimoto into wrestling him, but provoked him to declare war on New Japan and bring Ogawa with him. However, Tenzan may job here, in which case I'll be unhappy. If Norton takes the fall, I'll have no problems. After 5/2, there's talk of Hash bringing his troops and working more NJPW shows and vice versa, which could help both sides. The more ideal scenario would be for Hash to build up his native roster some more, then in maybe 1-2 years, repeated the Ishingun angle, with him, Otani and friends invading New Japan. However, times are tougher than they were then, so they may not have the patience to do that.

 

>> If they want to re-build Nagata, why are they putting him against Takayama instead of giving him a win over Akiyama like he should have gotten on 1/4? <<

 

Nagata shouldn't really have won on 1/4. He should have if he beat Cro Cop (a match that never should have happened unless worked), but a win would have been pointless, because he was dead on his feet. Now he's being rebuilt, which is the important thing. After the 4:20 loss to Ogawa, Akiyama's credibility is shot to pieces. I don't see Takayama as a much weaker opponent for Nagata, in terms of what it means, than current Akiyama. If Akiyama hadn't lost to Ogawa, then I would have fully agreed, but that lost was just disasterous.

 

>> I know Takayama is a Pride guy and everything revolves around shoots now, but what has he done to signify main-eventing a Dome Show? <<

 

If Kobashi was healthy, I imagine he would have been in this spot, and they would have done a Nagata over Kobashi, Misawa over Chono tradeoff. New Japan is getting the worst end of this though, with Misawa beating Chono (the match all eyes are on) and Nagata beating Takayama (the match many eyes are on, but not as historical as the other bout).

[Guest MRFTW]

I don't know what any of her recent work has been like but Hotta wasn't THAT bad from the early to mid 90's stuff i've seen of her.

 

"I've only seen one Hotta singles match that I'd call **** and that was against Toyota in her prime (1995),"

 

I'd put her Big Egg match vs Combat at 4* and her DS1 match vs Kansai close to, if not 4*(it's been a while since I watched it so i'm not sure) but that's about it as far as good singles matches of her's that i've seen(haven't seen that many though).

[Guest TopSecretMan]

"I've only seen one Hotta singles match that I'd call **** and that was against Toyota in her prime (1995), which says a lot more for Toyota than it does for Hotta.  

 

-- Really? She used to be pretty good in her younger days...She's had a couple **** matches with Toyota and Hokuto apiece, the two matches FTW mentioned, some good brawls with Bull, and probably her best match ever against Aja in January 1994.

 

Actually, at this point, I'd be happy if I never saw another Hotta or Shinobu Kandori match in my life.  "

 

I said that 3 years ago...glad to see sentiment hasn't changed

[Guest wolverine]

"I'd put her Big Egg match vs Combat at 4* and her DS1 match vs Kansai close to, if not 4*(it's been a while since I watched it so i'm not sure) but that's about it as far as good singles matches of her's that i've seen(haven't seen that many though)."

 

I question how you could call those matches ****, then call Toyota vs. Aja 6/27/95 ***3/4, when almost everyone would tell you that's a WAY better match, and the best WWWA title switch ever.

[Guest MRFTW]

After re-watching it again I liked 6/27/95 a little better but not much. Now i'd call it 4*, mayby 4&1/4 on a really really good day but that's it. And i'll still take the Bull to Aja and Aja to Kansai title switches over that match any day.

 

The more I watch of Toyota the more I think she's WAY too overrated.

[Guest wolverine]

"The more I watch of Toyota the more I think she's WAY too overrated."

 

If we're talking 3/26/95 vs. Aja, yes, that was a terrible performance.  When you use something like 4 moves and miss 3 of them, that's not a good thing.

 

But the good outweighs the bad parts of her game as far as I'm concerned, but I'll admit that she was at her best when carried and not the other way around, since she's one of the best carriable wrestlers in history.

 

And if Toyota is WAY overrated, then Toshiyo Yamada must be WAY underrated because I saw her carry Toyota in 1992 to two matches that are better than any pro-style match since 1998 that I've seen. (I haven't seen Aja-Satomura 9/99, Zenjo cage 11/00, or Ito/Nakanishi 9/01 so I can't comment on those).

[Guest MRFTW]

"but I'll admit that she was at her best when carried and not the other way around, since she's one of the best carriable wrestlers in history."

 

Yeah, that's basically what I think of her. Alot of people call her one of, if not they greatest of all time but to me she's just an above average worker who could easily be carried to great matches by better wokers like Aja and Kyoko.

 

I can't comment on Yamada being overated or not since I don't hear her talked about that much to know what opinion most people have of her. I think she's good(if not a little bland) in an upper mid card sort of way though.

 

Haven't seen her 92 matches with Toyota but while i'd give their 11/93 match 4*(barely) I can't say it was anything i'd really like to see again or anything that'd make me want to track down any of their otehr matches.

[Guest wolverine]

"but to me she's just an above average worker who could easily be carried to great matches by better wokers like Aja and Kyoko."

 

Now she's an "above average worker"?  Wow.  Here's what you said on 3/16/02 at Crazy Max:

 

On Manami Toyota....

 

MRFTW:  "Well she's a great wrestler but not greatest of all time great."

 

I'm curious, how does she go from "great" to "above average" in one month?

[Guest MRFTW]

"I'm curious, how does she go from "great" to "above average" in one month?"

 

By watching more of her matches I hadn't befor and re-watching some of her others. By watching more matches of other people, comparing them to her and seeing how she doesn't deserve as much praise as she gets when there's alot of people I think are either better or are atleast just as good.

 

Seeing more clearly how she's most often carried in alot of her great matches and how she drags some others down that should have been better than they were like her 11/20/93 match with Fukuoka whear she blows 2-3 spots among other things.

[Guest TopSecretMan]

Get the 1/94 Aja/Hotta match, it's a real hidden gem.

[Guest Jubuki]

By inconsistency and poor attention to detail?

 

Toyota is the greatest worker alive who doesn't know how to make up for someone else's shortcomings.  It's something of a backhanded compliment, but when what she does hits the right way, or the person helping her along knows what to do to fill in the blanks, it's mesmerizing.  But, honestly, there were very few who really knew how to work with someone; Ozaki knew, Bull knew, Hokuto, Minami, Aja, Devil, Asuka (immediately after she came back, pre-Jd'), Kansai (though she might be a stretch)...the rest tended to do their thing and not look back.  Some could get away with that and get big reactions (Kyoko, Toyota, Yamada), some couldn't without going to extremes (Hotta).

[Guest wolverine]

"but when what she does hits the right way, or the person helping her along knows what to do to fill in the blanks, it's mesmerizing"

 

Honestly, I think her match with Aja on 11/20/94 is mesmerizing.  I guess the stars were aligned that night, because I really couldn't have asked for anything more.  She turned in her career best singles performance, but it was Aja who deserves the credit, since on that night, Aja was the Greatest Worker On The Face Of The Earth.

[Guest wolverine]

"Get the 1/94 Aja/Hotta match, it's a real hidden gem."

 

I hear it's brutal.  But I also heard Lioness Asuka vs. Hotta was brutal, which when I saw it, turned out to be a *** match at best, that was basically a poor man's version of UWFI.  I agree with Chris that seeing Takada, Maeda, et al hurts this one, which I may have liked more without prior viewing.

[Guest TopSecretMan]

Well, you must have been listening to morons when you heard the Lioness/Hotta match was good.

 

I'm not a moron, and the 1/94 rocks.

[Guest wolverine]

"Well, you must have been listening to morons when you heard the Lioness/Hotta match was good."

 

Yeah, I know  

 

"I'm not a moron, and the 1/94 rocks."

 

What's that quote you use at Crazy Max?  "We don't lie here."  You certainly don't!  I'll give it a look when I get a chance