My backlash thoughts

[Guest Flyboy]

Wow.. I didn't know that many people cared about what *I* thought!

 

Kickass!

[Guest Flyboy]

Rob just ignore these RVD marks. They have spent so many years drinking the Heyman kool-aid that it will never wear off.

I'm sorry HMW, but no I didn't drink any of Paul's "kool-aid".. I just got hooked on Paul's TALENT.  Which RVD has if you haven't noticed.

 

And something that Hogan seems to be lacking as of late.. (and a while).

[Guest]

I don;t know guys, as far as I am concerned from an ecw standpoint, I've seen rvd like more times than most of you.  Now driving 2 hours to the ecw arena, or to queens or manhatten is a pain but hey I was a big ecw fan, from close to the beginning.  I was never "hooked on heymans kool-aid" thats bull shit.  From seeing him live, to seeing him on tv rvd just blows.  Now I will be honest here, most of the idiots on this board are immagrants and entered into the 1998 ellis island affair.  Mark my words, RVD will be forgotten in 2 years, just as jeff hardy before him.  Then the next guy that does different flips, yes all rvd does is flips, no wrestling holds, will be revered and get his dick sucked by these idiots.  I find it funny to think that you guys hate "marks" but in reality, you are worse, because you think you are smart for like "good" wrestling.  Yet the guy you support doesn;t even wrestle, he is a male version of keri strugg.  On top of all that the flips and jumps he does, don;t even hit consistantly and he is very sloppy doing it.  Come on, if you want to be a spot wrestler atleast have the decency to hit them.  My theory is RVD is loved because he smokes weed.  He wasn;t really over like crazy until everyone caught the old 420 thing.  Also most of the people on this board are probably 15 y/o's.  COmbine that with his "floor exercises" and boom.  DO I need to go any further with this?  It speaks for itself.

 

--Rob

[Guest Brian]

Man, I love RVD's holiday.

[Guest alfdogg]

All you 1998 newcomers don't know and thus should not speak on things you know nothing about.

I've been a fan since 1989, genius.  You say we're all 1998 newcomers, then say WE know nothing.

[Guest]

I said all fo you 1998 newcomers, that was directed at the 98 newcomers, no not you.  Your just confused with your sexuality, thats why YOU like rvd.  It's cool though, I won't hold it against you

 

--Rob

[Guest alfdogg]

"Eddy is not jesus christ, but he is one of the best wrestlers int he world so anyone he destroys in the ring should thank him for beating on them."

 

I'll agree with you on that.

 

"Rob just ignore these RVD marks. They have spent so many years drinking the Heyman kool-aid that it will never wear off."

 

I never saw RVD before the InVasion, therefore I never drank the "Kool-Aid."

 

And I think Risk put it best:  we'll stop drinking Heyman's "kool-aid" if you stop taking Hogan's "vitamins."

[Guest alfdogg]

Your just confused with your sexuality

That has nothing to do at all with this argument.

[Guest]

so your not denying it?

 

--Rob

[Guest alfdogg]

so your not denying it?

 

--Rob

Of course I'm denying it.  But what does that have to do with the argument at hand?

[Guest]

its helps my arguement by saying either rvd fans are attracted by his pot smoking, his gymnastics, or a small percentage may be sexually attracted to him, like yourself.  Thats how it helps.  It damn sure isn;t his wrestling ability, cause there i none.

 

--Rob

[Guest Flyboy]

Mark my words, RVD will be forgotten in 2 years, just as jeff hardy before him.  

Hmmm... RVD has been around longer than 2 years... and he STILL is over as fuck.  In the WWF, in 2 years if the WWF plays their cards right do you REALLY think that RVD will be forgotten?  

 

I'm sorry this thread has turned into a big flame-war.. RVD fans.. RVD haters.. yadda yadda.

 

I apologize.

[Guest Flyboy]

its helps my arguement by saying either rvd fans are attracted by his pot smoking, his gymnastics, or a small percentage may be sexually attracted to him, like yourself.  Thats how it helps.  It damn sure isn;t his wrestling ability, cause there i none.

 

--Rob

Well... if you look at your screen name.. it's RobStone.

 

Okay.. Rob.  That's in RVD's name.  Stone.  RVD likes to get STONED.

 

THERE!  

 

You're a hidden RVD fan!  I've found out the truth!  

 

And, how would you know who homosexuals are attracted to?  You're sounding like you're admitting RVD is "pretty" or something.  ???

[Guest]

dude, don;t you remember jeff hardy had the same buzz, same exact buzz.  Whats going on with him now.  TKO in matches.  HIstory repeats itself and for RVD thats what will happen.  I would also like to point out similarities like jeff hardy showed signs of becoming good early in his career like OMEGA, and rvd did the same in late 96 through mid 97.  Then he grew lazy of the ecw spot style that they adapted in almost every match since mid 97.

 

--Rob

[Guest]

I would also like to poin t out my name is Rob Johnstone thus RobStone genius.  Don't get mad that your boy sucks.  You'll eventually make peace with it.

 

--Rob

[Guest Flyboy]

I would also like to poin t out my name is Rob Johnstone thus RobStone genius.  Don't get mad that your boy sucks.  You'll eventually make peace with it.

 

--Rob

Err.. I was being sarcastic, genius.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I'd just like to say a few things here.

 

I hate this entire RVD bashing thing.

 

Yes, RVD is no Chris Benoit. Do we have that established? Good.

 

They wrestle two vastly different styles. RVD isn't a mat-based technical wrestler, but at the same time, he does more than just 'flip flop'. I was never an ECW fan, but from what I've seen, he's improved light-years in his transitions since he came into the WWF.

 

Anyone spouting the whole "RVD has no talent" bit should be forced to watch a 'Best of the Warrior' video for stupidity. He does have wrestling ability, but god forbid it's anything different from the Accepted Internet Standard. (Benoit, Malenko, Storm, etc).

 

Those going with the mic skills argument need to take a good long look at what they're saying. He isn't nearly as bad as you think, and I'd say he's ahead of Benoit. Like that's very hard to do. In fact, his mic skills work plenty well enough for the character he is. He dosen't need to be elequent like the Rock, or INTENSE~! like HHH, or ramble and curse like Austin. He's Rob Van Dam. It works.

 

I understand that there are wrestling styles people just don't like, and I accept that. But to mindlessly bash Van Dam isn't right either. I'm sure none of you would appreciate people throwing baseless insults at your favorite wrestler.

 

Now grow up, and post something useful once in a while.

 

-Shiro

[Guest alfdogg]

its helps my arguement by saying either rvd fans are attracted by his pot smoking, his gymnastics, or a small percentage may be sexually attracted to him, like yourself.

It does not help your argument, it's simply a reason to flame us for not liking the same people as you.

 

And keep in mind that YOU are the one who keeps bringing up the homosexual subject...I'm not a homophobe or anything, just thought I'd point that out.

[Guest alfdogg]

And I second Diablo's post.

[Guest]

I was just simply statting, that you cannot like him for his wrestling ability.  Why you ask?  Because he does not do wrestling moves.  Can you name 5 wrestling holds he does consistantly, seriously, get back to me with that.  SO if you don't like him for the wrestling factor, because its non exsistant, then what are you a fan of his for?  Then I listed reasons as to why someone might be his fan.  hey, they are all possibilites, but I am still going to say that most like his drug usage more than anything.  

 

--Rob

[Guest Flyboy]

I'd just like to say a few things here.

 

I hate this entire RVD bashing thing.

 

Yes, RVD is no Chris Benoit. Do we have that established? Good.

 

They wrestle two vastly different styles. RVD isn't a mat-based technical wrestler, but at the same time, he does more than just 'flip flop'. I was never an ECW fan, but from what I've seen, he's improved light-years in his transitions since he came into the WWF.

 

Anyone spouting the whole "RVD has no talent" bit should be forced to watch a 'Best of the Warrior' video for stupidity. He does have wrestling ability, but god forbid it's anything different from the Accepted Internet Standard. (Benoit, Malenko, Storm, etc).

 

Those going with the mic skills argument need to take a good long look at what they're saying. He isn't nearly as bad as you think, and I'd say he's ahead of Benoit. Like that's very hard to do. In fact, his mic skills work plenty well enough for the character he is. He dosen't need to be elequent like the Rock, or INTENSE~! like HHH, or ramble and curse like Austin. He's Rob Van Dam. It works.

 

I understand that there are wrestling styles people just don't like, and I accept that. But to mindlessly bash Van Dam isn't right either. I'm sure none of you would appreciate people throwing baseless insults at your favorite wrestler.

 

Now grow up, and post something useful once in a while.

 

-Shiro

*hands Shiro a cookie*

 

Very well said, man!  

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Allright, Rob Stone. That's not a very consistent argument.

 

In most WWF matches, people stick to signature spots, and that's it. Everyone does that. Austin, Benoit, HHH, you name it. The entire roster does the same punch-punch-spot-repeat style. Even the oh-so-great 'technical' geniuses.

 

RVD's Rolling Thunder, Split-Legged Moonsault, 5 Star Frog Splash, etc..are just as equivalent to Benoit's Rolling Germans, Flying Headbutt, and Crippler Crossface. They're signature spots, and everybody uses mostly only them.

 

Next?

 

-Shiro

 

*edit* Drug Usage? That's a cheap shot, and you know it. That's like saying everyone's an Austin fan because he's an alcoholic. It's such an argument.

[Guest alfdogg]

I was just simply statting, that you cannot like him for his wrestling ability.  Why you ask?  Because he does not do wrestling moves.  Can you name 5 wrestling holds he does consistantly, seriously, get back to me with that.  SO if you don't like him for the wrestling factor, because its non exsistant, then what are you a fan of his for?  Then I listed reasons as to why someone might be his fan.  hey, they are all possibilites, but I am still going to say that most like his drug usage more than anything.  

 

--Rob

I'm not the kind of guy to try to change one's opinion.

 

So here's mine:

 

"I was just simply statting, that you cannot like him for his wrestling ability."  

 

Who are you, my dad?  I can like anyone for whatever reason I want.  It might not be a GOOD reason, but to say "you CAN'T like so-and-so because" is just stupid.

 

"Can you name 5 wrestling holds he does consistantly, seriously, get back to me with that."

 

I'll give you that, but to say "non-existant" is a little harsh.  Especially if you like guys like Hogan, HHH, & Nash for wrestling ability.

 

My reason for liking RVD is his aerial tactics.  And I will agree that Eddy is light years ahead of RVD.

[Guest alfdogg]

Also most of the people on this board are probably 15 y/o's.

And how old are you?

[Guest Special K]

I am both an Eddie and RVD mark. Eddie is an incredible wrestler, involved in one of my absolute fave matches of all time (Stinko Malenko [used as a term of respect] v. Eddie last match ECW), ans is indeed a better werstler than RVD. Yet, RVD does have some wrestling moves at his displosal (Limited by the WWF 'style'). The truth is, RVD really does electrify a crowd, he has fit into the WWF style, and displays charisma. I don't think Eddie beating RVD is a bad thing, but a heel squash is. RVD is by FAR the most over midcarder in the fed, and I think he should be the strong face midcarder now.  As a fan who matched WWF for many years for the midcard, fans will stay for an over midcard face, hence I hope they aren't discarding RVD entirely.

 

And yes, I've seen RVD in person twice, in ECW. Both times I marked out like a li'l bitch. Don't really care. This goes with the main event. I have a # of friends who are farely 'markish' and they like Hogan (The Hollywood incarnation) but they still watch for the midcard. Prbably 'cause we've watched a little puro.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Why whenever people get into big arguments on this board they start calling everyone 15 year olds? Like a 28 year old wouldn't disagree with you!? And your the only older one on the board?

Anyways I am neutral about RVD. I enjoy watching him at times but I won't run out and buy a Best of RVD Tape.

[Guest Brian]

I remember the buzz on Jeff when he started. Jesus Christ those Hardys were so fucking ahead of their time in the indies, and Jesus Fucking Christ were they limited after the spots got over. It's tragedy, because both of them had main event skills when they came in and with a manager or if someone worked with them on the mic, they had all the main event skills. I remember one match where they both worked parts of it heel and parts of it face, and got the crowd to react and worked in psychology. They had so much more potential than RVD had, and if you saw them prior to the WWF, you'd know what I was talking about.

[Guest JHawk]

I'm going to give my take on the RVD conversation here, and bear in mind I haven't read every post, so my apologies if something's been covered.

 

One of the main criticisms of RVD in his ECW days was his penchant for being more of a "spot wrestler":  one spot, posing, one spot, more posing.  And most people were entertained, be it because they thought it was great wrestling (which it wasn't necessarily) or they just the enjoyed the acrobatics of it.

 

Then RVD moves to the WWF.  And...brace yourself...he is much improved as an actual wrestler.  Credit the WWF TV product for its shorter matches for this one.  RVD had to learn that he's not going to be able to work 20 minutes every time he goes out there.  Therefore, if he's going to use a majority of his trademark spots, he can't stop to pose and has to learn to have some sort of flow from spot to spot.

 

Look at some of the better TV matches of the last few months.  His match on the March 14 SmackDown! with Angle (which was edited by two minutes and didn't have any slow spots edited at all).  His recent Raw match with The Undertaker.  The recent series of matches with Lance Storm.  The spots are still there with the exception of the Van Daminator (which has no place in a non-hardcore match).  But he's picking up on some of the more subtle nuances.  Selling the leg against Storm.  Selling Undertaker's offense like he was nearly dead.

 

Is RVD technically sound like Benoit, Storm, and Angle?  No.  Is he a good wrestler?  Depends on exactly what you consider good, but I would say so.  However, RVD has improved greatly since InVasion and is slowly developing into a guy who can work with just about anybody.  He had a good match with The Undertaker for chrissakes!  You can't do that today if you suck.

 

Just my 2 cents (8/10 of a penny after taxes)

[Guest Brian]

My take on RVD, and WWF wrestlers in general:

 

Like every wrestler in the WWF, he's been reduced even more to a spot wrestler because of the punch-kick style. The better wrestlers at this style add to their matches; they pace their moves, they build their matches, they sell, and they use psychology to tell a story.

 

The only people who are really at the top right now, are Austin and Benoit. Other than that there are not a whole lot of comparisons with these guys. Only Eddie's probably as good if not better. Angle's close, but he tends to miss out and sometimes I'm not even sure if he belogs here. Like RVD, he meshes well with a bunch of different wrestlers. Jericho is close when he's motivated. Rock at times falls into this category. Lance Storm is one guys I've seen that can be here. I've seen shades of Christian in this category.

 

Then there's a third tier of good wrestler. This is where I'd fit RVD, but he's still a little inconsistent. I'd give Edge the nod, but he still has some to prove like Angle to assure me they both deserve their placement.

 

Anyways, back to the origin of the post. Anyone in the WWF can be looked at as a spot wrestler. That's what the style does, it reduces people to brawling and spots. Now, I look at BackLash and I only see one matches where every move was building to something. That being Tajiri/Kidman, where Tajiri was just destroying Kidman, trying to knock him out. Austin/Undertaker, and I know I'll get ripped for saying this, had a really good fundamental base. They were building to one big sequence that ended the match. They went from an equal position on the mat, to brawling because neither could pull it out, to Undertaker trying to take Austin out. It dragged after that point, where they should have had Austin fight out after the first hold and go straight to the finishing sequence instead, which would have made a lot more sense.

 

Edge/Angle was leading to nothing. They had spent a lot of time putting over Edge as being a smart-ass, a punk. That's why he should have gone down to the first Angle-slam if they're planning on continuing this, because Edge got his wake-up call, realizing that Angle was as good as he said. Second part I'm going to complain about is the German suplexes with Angle. Now, I can understand one set of German suplexes. But they don't need to do three different German suplex spots. Why would Angle go back to it? He's never won a match with them has he? If he has, there's still very little precedent to do it three times. If Edge reverses it, don't do it again. It's just a wear-down move. The other part f the match that really suffered, and made the match suffer, was that there was no real story carrying it all the way through.

 

And now to RVD/Eddie. There must have been some kind of weird audible called from backstage, because something went seriously wrong here. It was much too spotty to begin with, than Eddie tried to collect it but by that time it was too late. He had blown most of his offense.

 

And all the way back around, the last two examples I used provided that the WWF is too strongly based on having wrestlers do spots than matches. That's how they put themselves over, the wrestlers. Whereas some wrestler have an array of offense they can pick from, the WWF forces them to push a few signature moves, and maybe a short supporting cast of weaker moves. RVD, with the right opponent, had a lot of moves to choose from. Now, hes been reduced to his spots but still can't really put together the body of a match. His flashy spots generally limit his selling, and he usually sells more (consistently) for his own frog splash than he does with another wrestler. And I mention consistently by long-term selling, RVD will sell his ribs up and down the ring to the ramp to backstage but what happened to that knee. That's what is going to limit him from being a great wrestler; the spots he is demanded to perform take away from his ability to perform at a higher level.