Bush vs. Kerry

[Guest thebigjig]

Bush's "Flip-Flops"

 

Interesting thing I came across today... I would paste the article but it contains links to news articles and quotes that back the evidence

 

Let the debate begin

[Guest MikeSC]

1. OPEC

 

BUSH PROMISES TO FORCE OPEC TO LOWER PRICES..."What I think the president ought to do [when gas prices spike] is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots...And the president of the United States must jawbone OPEC members to lower the price." [President Bush, 1/26/00]

 

...BUSH REFUSES TO LOBBY OPEC LEADERS With gas prices soaring in the United States at the beginning of 2004, the Miami Herald reported the president refused to "personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds." [Miami Herald, 4/1/04]

OPEC has already announced intentions to raise production to max capacity. Nice try, fellas.

2. Iraq Funding

 

BUSH SPOKESMAN DENIES NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE REST OF 2004..."We do not anticipate requesting supplemental funding for '04" [White House Budget Director Joshua Bolton, 2/2/04]

 

…BUSH REQUESTS ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR IRAQ FOR 2004 “I am requesting that Congress establish a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year to meet all commitments to our troops.” [President Bush, Statement by President, 5/5/04]

Apparently, the authors confused the phrase "do not anticicapte" with "will not request".

 

You know, things like this are why these insane left-wing sites (throw idiots like Brock's Media Matters into this mix) get laughed at. They really suck at this.

3. Condoleeza Rice Testimony

 

BUSH SPOKESMAN SAYS RICE WON'T TESTIFY AS 'A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE'...“Again, this is not her personal preference; this goes back to a matter of principle. There is a separation of powers issue involved here. Historically, White House staffers do not testify before legislative bodies. So it's a matter of principle, not a matter of preference.”  [White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan, 3/9/04]

 

…BUSH ORDERS RICE TO TESTIFY: “Today I have informed the Commission on Terrorist Attacks Against the United States that my National Security Advisor, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony.” [President Bush, 3/30/04]

Oooh, he's EEEEEEEEEEVIL!

4. Science

 

BUSH PLEDGES TO ISSUE REGULATIONS BASED ON SCIENCE..."I think we ought to have high standards set by agencies that rely upon science, not by what may feel good or what sounds good." [then-Governor George W. Bush, 1/15/00]

 

...BUSH ADMINISTRATION REGULATIONS IGNORE SCIENCE "60 leading scientists—including Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors and university chairs and presidents—issued a statement calling for regulatory and legislative action to restore scientific integrity to federal policymaking. According to the scientists, the Bush administration has, among other abuses, suppressed and distorted scientific analysis from federal agencies, and taken actions that have undermined the quality of scientific advisory panels." [union of Concerned Scientists, 2/18/04]

You know, there's an outside chance that "Union of Concerned Scientists" has an idealogical ax to grind.

5. Ahmed Chalabi

 

BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving [White House Documents 1/20/04, 11/27/03]

 

...BUSH MILITARY ASSISTS IN RAID OF CHALABI'S HOUSE"U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers." [Washington Post, 5/20/04]

So, if suspicions of malfeasance turn up, NOTHING should be done about it --- so you can remain "firm". God, these people really suck at this.

6. Department of Homeland Security

 

BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

 

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT  OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

That's also why he fixed the problems the spokesman listed. But, hey, have a blast.

7. Weapons of Mass Destruction

 

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories…for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

 

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons. And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

Called possibly bad intel. Does this group know what flip flopping IS?

8. Free Trade

 

BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

 

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

Terrible policy. No argument here.

9. Osama Bin Laden

 

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

 

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA “I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him… I truly am not that concerned about him.” [President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

We don't know if he's ALIVE --- why should Bush worry about him?

10. The Environment

 

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[if elected], Governor Bush will work to…establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

 

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

This is a flip flop in what way, precisely?

11. WMD Commission

 

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

 

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE  "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

It's called not allowing the opposition to dictate policy to you.

12. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

 

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

 

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

As we've seen --- the 9/11 Commission has been a debacle.

13. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

 

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

 

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

You know, I'll trust Bush's ACTIONS over press accounts of what he might have said.

14. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

 

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday."  [NY Times, 2/26/04]

 

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

Gee, perhaps the Commission members were wrong. Or perhaps, as is their tendency, the Times got it wrong.

 

This group needs to learn what a flip flop is. They seem clueless.

15. Gay Marriage

 

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

 

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

He still feels it's a state issue. Let individual states make choices that don't have to be recognized by other states.

16. Nation Building

 

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

 

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

Do they propose we leave?

17. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

 

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

 

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

Well, SHOCKINGLY enough, the war on terror deals with more than 9/11. Hamas

wasn't involved with 9/11 --- are they not terrorists? How about Islamic Jihad?

18. U.N. Resolution

 

BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]

 

...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

Bush also learned that France would veto ANY resolution, no matter what. Going to the UN at that point would be a waste of time.

19. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict

 

BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]

 

...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting.  I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]

Good lord, this group is unbelievably lame at this.

20. Campaign Finance

 

BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]

 

...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW  "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold signing ceremony, 03/27/02]

Single biggest blunder of his Presidency.

 

So, out of 20 items, they have MAYBE 3 flip flops. Way to do some research, fellas.

-=Mike

[Guest INXS]

Yup, Bush flip flops. A lot.

 

The guy can't be trusted, I thought we all knew that by now....

[Guest MikeSC]

Yup, Bush flip flops. A lot.

 

The guy can't be trusted, I thought we all knew that by now....

Except about 17 of those aren't, you know, flip flops.

 

Kerry's got a real problem with this. Bush's only problem is that certain psychotic critics don't know what they're doing when criticizing him.

-=Mike

[Guest thebigjig]

Oooh, he's EEEEEEEEEEVIL!

 

Nice counter there... regardless, this is indeed a flip flop... key words "Condoleeza won't testify" as opposed to "Rice will provide public testimony"

 

You know, there's an outside chance that "Union of Concerned Scientists" has an idealogical ax to grind.

 

oooor they could be pissed at Bush's ignorance throughout his administration and his constant opposition to science... if anyone is an idealogue, it's Bush... the religious idealogue

 

So, if suspicions of malfeasance turn up, NOTHING should be done about it --- so you can remain "firm".

 

This I agree with you on

 

 

That's also why he fixed the problems the spokesman listed. But, hey, have a blast.

 

It's a flip flop Mike... he opposed the creation of a new cabinet and then he supported it

 

Called possibly bad intel. Does this group know what flip flopping IS?

 

if my memory serves me correctly, Bush was referring to a small, minute amount of something or another that they supposedly found... he then overstated in that quote... classic case of foot in mouth

 

We don't know if he's ALIVE --- why should Bush worry about him?

 

Possibly because he was the mastermind of an attack that killed 3000 of our people? Call me crazy but all of those audio tapes that we keep getting that the CIA confirms are from Bin Laden and are recent... yeah, that kind of points to him being alive but what do I know? Either way, Bush cared in 2001 and now he doesnt really... thats a flip flop

 

 

10. The Environment

 

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[if elected], Governor Bush will work to…establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

 

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

 

 

This is a flip flop in what way, precisely?

 

Weeeeell it could be that he supported reduction on carbon dioxide and how he opposes it...

 

It's called not allowing the opposition to dictate policy to you.

 

No its called being opposed to an outside investigation and now being open to one... flip flop

 

As we've seen --- the 9/11 Commission has been a debacle.

 

Thats irrelevant Mike

 

Do they propose we leave?

 

No, I believe they were just pointing out that he was opposed to nation building and well, he's obviously not now

 

 

He still feels it's a state issue. Let individual states make choices that don't have to be recognized by other states.

 

Do you even read the newspapers?

 

 

Well, SHOCKINGLY enough, the war on terror deals with more than 9/11. Hamas

 

Irrelevant

 

Single biggest blunder of his Presidency.

 

No, history will show that Iraq was... however, I still find it hilarious that you HATE John McCain for helping craft the bill, but Bush gets a pass for oh, you know... signing it

[Stephen Joseph 0]

I just found the first one funny. Bush doesn't force OPEC to do keep prices low.

 

1) They're a cartel

2) Cartels regulate quantity to raise prices

3) Our exchange rate declined. Foreign prices have to rise.

 

 

yeah...most of those, really don't hold water. About 5, up from Mike's 3

 

but the point remains.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

this is off topic, but this election will be like choosing between death by drowning or death by drowning in slightly warmer water.

[Guest MikeSC]

Oooh, he's EEEEEEEEEEVIL!

Nice counter there... regardless, this is indeed a flip flop... key words "Condoleeza won't testify" as opposed to "Rice will provide public testimony"

That's not a flip flop. Hate to break it to you.

You know, there's an outside chance that "Union of Concerned Scientists" has an idealogical ax to grind.

oooor they could be pissed at Bush's ignorance throughout his administration and his constant opposition to science... if anyone is an idealogue, it's Bush... the religious idealogue

Yup, no chance of this group having an axe to grind. No chance at all.

That's also why he fixed the problems the spokesman listed. But, hey, have a blast.

It's a flip flop Mike... he opposed the creation of a new cabinet and then he supported it

No, he explained why he opposed it. When those reasons were resolved, his opposition ended.

Called possibly bad intel. Does this group know what flip flopping IS?

if my memory serves me correctly, Bush was referring to a small, minute amount of something or another that they supposedly found... he then overstated in that quote... classic case of foot in mouth

But, as you state here, not a flip flop.

We don't know if he's ALIVE --- why should Bush worry about him?

Possibly because he was the mastermind of an attack that killed 3000 of our people? Call me crazy but all of those audio tapes that we keep getting that the CIA confirms are from Bin Laden and are recent... yeah, that kind of points to him being alive but what do I know? Either way, Bush cared in 2001 and now he doesnt really... thats a flip flop

Wow, how dare he change priorities. We're working on bin Laden, but he's not an obsession for Bush, nor should he be. Heck, in 2001, I worried that Affleck might have a legitimate film career. That concern is now gone after a string of bombs.

 

OMG, I FLIP FLOPPED!!!

10. The Environment

 

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[if elected], Governor Bush will work to…establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

 

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

This is a flip flop in what way, precisely?

Weeeeell it could be that he supported reduction on carbon dioxide and how he opposes it...

Opposing it in one specific circumstance isn't a flip flop. You really need to study as to what constitutes a flip flop.

It's called not allowing the opposition to dictate policy to you.

No its called being opposed to an outside investigation and now being open to one... flip flop

Nope. Nice try, though. Bush saw what the commission would become --- which is basically what it became --- and didn't like it.

As we've seen --- the 9/11 Commission has been a debacle.

Thats irrelevant Mike

Not really, actually.

Do they propose we leave?

No, I believe they were just pointing out that he was opposed to nation building and well, he's obviously not now

No, he proposed removing Saddam from power. Certain obligation come with doing that.

He still feels it's a state issue. Let individual states make choices that don't have to be recognized by other states.

Do you even read the newspapers?

I ask that about you, if it makes you happy.

Well, SHOCKINGLY enough, the war on terror deals with more than 9/11. Hamas

Irrelevant

Nope. That you don't recognize this shows a real problem on your part.

Single biggest blunder of his Presidency.

No, history will show that Iraq was... however, I still find it hilarious that you HATE John McCain for helping craft the bill, but Bush gets a pass for oh, you know... signing it

No, I blasted Bush for signing this attack on the First Amendment. McCain was the guy behind it.

-=Mike

[Guest thebigjig]

Oooh, he's EEEEEEEEEEVIL!

Nice counter there... regardless, this is indeed a flip flop... key words "Condoleeza won't testify" as opposed to "Rice will provide public testimony"

That's not a flip flop. Hate to break it to you.

 

If saying you won't allow something "out of principle" and then doing the exact opposite ISN'T a "flip flop" then I would love to hear your definition...

 

You know, there's an outside chance that "Union of Concerned Scientists" has an idealogical ax to grind.

oooor they could be pissed at Bush's ignorance throughout his administration and his constant opposition to science... if anyone is an idealogue, it's Bush... the religious idealogue

Yup, no chance of this group having an axe to grind. No chance at all.

 

An axe to grind? Oh most definitley... for good reason. Bush prefers religion to science

 

That's also why he fixed the problems the spokesman listed. But, hey, have a blast.

It's a flip flop Mike... he opposed the creation of a new cabinet and then he supported it

No, he explained why he opposed it. When those reasons were resolved, his opposition ended.

 

Couldn't you say the exact same thing about John Kerry's alleged flip flops? I mean I could technically say that John Kerry supported the war until he realized Bush was fucking everything up, so therefor he withdrew that support therefor changing his mind... infact, that's his position, but it's okay for Bush to change his mind on issues?

 

Called possibly bad intel. Does this group know what flip flopping IS?

if my memory serves me correctly, Bush was referring to a small, minute amount of something or another that they supposedly found... he then overstated in that quote... classic case of foot in mouth

But, as you state here, not a flip flop.

 

I see your point... not technically a flip flop, but it does further the evidence that the man can look and sound like a complete moron sometimes... geez, I never thought this country would elect Dan Quayle v. 2

 

We don't know if he's ALIVE --- why should Bush worry about him?

Possibly because he was the mastermind of an attack that killed 3000 of our people? Call me crazy but all of those audio tapes that we keep getting that the CIA confirms are from Bin Laden and are recent... yeah, that kind of points to him being alive but what do I know? Either way, Bush cared in 2001 and now he doesnt really... thats a flip flop

Wow, how dare he change priorities. We're working on bin Laden, but he's not an obsession for Bush, nor should he be. Heck, in 2001, I worried that Affleck might have a legitimate film career. That concern is now gone after a string of bombs.

 

Good comparison...

 

Bush changed priorities? Oh my god... but I thought his top priority was the war on terrorism? Since Bin Laden is the top terroist "evil doer" you would THINK that would be his # 1 priority... especially considering Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11

 

Opposing it in one specific circumstance isn't a flip flop. You really need to study as to what constitutes a flip flop.

 

So... saying you support something, and then later, not backing it up and opposing it... isn't a flip flop?

 

Nope. Nice try, though. Bush saw what the commission would become --- which is basically what it became --- and didn't like it.

 

But he agreed to go along with it anyway? I thought Bush does what he feels is right... that's what his whole damn campaign is based on. Either way, it's still irrelevant... what is relevant however is that he opposed it and then supported it... that, is a flip flop... especially if we're going to compare Kerry's to Bush's

 

Do they propose we leave?

No, I believe they were just pointing out that he was opposed to nation building and well, he's obviously not now

No, he proposed removing Saddam from power. Certain obligation come with doing that.

 

Removing Saddam from power = building a democracy (or transplanting) = nation building and or re/building... something he said he opposed

 

 

Well, SHOCKINGLY enough, the war on terror deals with more than 9/11. Hamas

Irrelevant

Nope. That you don't recognize this shows a real problem on your part.

 

The only thing that matters here is that the administration tried to get all of us to believe that Iraq had a key role in 9/11... and now says that it didn't. The fact that Iraq is a terrorist breeding ground NOW has nothing to do with what has been stated

 

Single biggest blunder of his Presidency.

No, history will show that Iraq was... however, I still find it hilarious that you HATE John McCain for helping craft the bill, but Bush gets a pass for oh, you know... signing it

No, I blasted Bush for signing this attack on the First Amendment. McCain was the guy behind it.

 

Doesn't matter... Bush still signed it and is by default, a co-conspirator to bring down the first ammendmant in your eyes... so therefor, he did not fight it