Best matches this year....

[Guest wolverine]

"As for Eddy being back to his 1997 self, I don't see it.  After that 12/98 accident, everything he does seems to always be a step off.  Now don't get me wrong, a "step off" Eddy is still a top flight worker, but in late 1997, he was without a doubt the best worker in North America and possibly the world IMO."

 

Well, he may not be ALL the way back, but I have noticed an improvement in his work during this WWF run, compared to the last one.  Granted, he's working with indy level talent (RVD) but it's obvious that he's the best that they have (at least until Benoit comes back, but he'll probably have a lot of ring rust).

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

I still maintain that Benoit at 50% is still better than most of the WWF locker room.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"I still maintain that Benoit at 50% is still better than most of the WWF locker room."

 

Of course.  Benoit at 10% and Austin at 10% and Eddy at 10% are better than everyone in the WWF except possibly Angle.

 

Tim

[Guest The Son of Sting]

Eddy vs Williams from Revival would be my favourite match so far this year, but i havent seen anything break the ****1/2 barrier.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

I'll agree with you on that one Sting, Williams vs. Eddy was indeed very good, and is only just behind Rock / Jericho @ Rumble as the best match I've seen this year. Williams / Fliesch was also very choice.

 

From what I've heard though, either the Lyger & co. vs. Gedo & co. matches deserve mentioning, or some of the big matches on the AJW PPV.

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

I'm missing the Z-1 show and the 4/13 AJPW PPV but I'll drop quick thoughts on what I thought was high end thus far:

 

- Nagata vs Akiyama: From 1/4.  This was pretty damn good, but you'd have expected nothing less from these two.  If Nagata was motivated (he didn't seem overly co-operative at times probably due to being depressed from his quick loss) this would have been a lot better and a vialbe MOTYC. ***1/2

 

- Morgan vs Styles: this was from the Super 8 Finals.  I thought this was a hell of a match that was only hindered by what seems like the indy ideal of "big match = kick out of everything." ***3/4 (probably lower but I've only watched it once)

 

- Kojima vs Tenryu: This is from 2/14 PPV.  Tenryu's work was awesome, sucking up major heat with his Tenzan rip off offense.  I love watching Tenryu when he's feeling motivated.  Kojima looked very good but this was definitely the Tenryu show. ***3/4

 

- Angle vs Edge: This was from the recent Backlash card.  Great work from both guys and it actually managed to garner some heat from a crowd that was pretty dead outside of the opener.  I'd venture to guess this was Edge's best match; with only his IC match with Storm from Summerslam being on the same level.  Best WWF match this year.  ****

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

- Angle vs Edge: This was from the recent Backlash card.  Great work from both guys and it actually managed to garner some heat from a crowd that was pretty dead outside of the opener.  I'd venture to guess this was Edge's best match; with only his IC match with Storm from Summerslam being on the same level.  Best WWF match this year.  ****

 

I agree but I'm sure you're going to get some flak on that call.

[Guest wolverine]

- Angle vs Edge: This was from the recent Backlash card.  Great work from both guys and it actually managed to garner some heat from a crowd that was pretty dead outside of the opener.  I'd venture to guess this was Edge's best match; with only his IC match with Storm from Summerslam being on the same level.  Best WWF match this year.  ****

Edge vs. Storm is ***.  Haven't seen the Angle match, but I'd bet it's significantly better.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Personally, Edge / Storm was the better match. However, since then I feel I have actually learnt so much more about wrestling that I could disagree now... I should watch it again, but PURORESU tempts me so!

[Guest Jubuki]

Kojima/Tenryu was decent.

 

At best.

 

But at least it was better than the Ki/Dragon match from KOTI...

 

Chris, who'd have to go to the (yuck) WON timeframe to find a match that could be thought of even in passing as an '02 MOTYC

[Guest MrDanger]

The best match I've seen all this year is Doug Williams/Jody Fleisch from the final of the King of England tournament, that match was in the ****/****1/4 region which says a great deal about the quality of matches this year.

 

You never know, maybe Chono and Misawa pulled off a minor miracle yesterday.

[Guest wolverine]

"You never know, maybe Chono and Misawa pulled off a minor miracle yesterday."

 

They didn't.  If they did, we'd know about it.  When New Japan says the women had the best match, it's pretty likely that they did, because they wouldn't bury their own company if it wasn't true.

[Guest]

I don't think im at all experienced enough to comment on Match of the Year when it comes to Japanese wrestling...however if i had to say one match, it would be the only Japanese match ive actually *seen*...

 

TRIPLE CROWN CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH:

Keiji Mutoh vs. Toshiaki Kawada

 

-From the All Japan Excite Series 2002

 

This has been the Oriental Taker Mark

[Guest Jubuki]

May as well say the best baseball team you've seen in the last year is the Tampa Bay D-Rays...

[Guest]

May as well say the best baseball team you've seen in the last year is the Tampa Bay D-Rays...

I'm not a moron, i know a good match when i see one...

 

(no Undertaker jokes on that last comment!)

[Guest PlatypusFool]

You're treading on thin ice around here by liking Mutoh, there is many people that dislike him due to his currently lazy work that are around this foreign board. The match you speak of has especially been debated many times around here, but almost all times the detractors have won the argument, and even though I used to think the Mutoh / Kawada matches were very good, I now think they are simply fairly decent due to considering the points made by Jubuki and others.

[Guest]

You're treading on thin ice around here by liking Mutoh

LOL Alright then, ill forget its a free country (mine anyway) and stop expressing myself....NOT

 

This has been the Oriental Taker Mark

[Guest MrDanger]

"

 

They didn't.  If they did, we'd know about it.  When New Japan says the women had the best match, it's pretty likely that they did, because they wouldn't bury their own company if it wasn't true.

All I heard was that the Dome fans gave them a good round of applause for all their hard work in the match

 

I'd be very surprised if a Kaoru Ito & Momoe Nakanishi vs Manami Toyota & Yumiko Hotta 12 minute sprint was better than Liger/Tanaka vs Gedo/Jado or Chono/Misawa. Now if they were given 20 mins+ then it would be a different story.

[Guest Jubuki]

You know a good match when you see one, eh?

 

Kawada's best stuff, which you clearly haven't seen from your questions in another thread, redefines what "good", "great", and "classic" all mean.  And once someone understands the nuances of his best matches, they understand why the Mutoh match is a disgrace.

 

Speaking like an authority after admitting ignorance is as sure as sign of a moron as I'm aware of...

[Guest]

You know a good match when you see one, eh?

 

Kawada's best stuff, which you clearly haven't seen from your questions in another thread, redefines what "good", "great", and "classic" all mean.  And once someone understands the nuances of his best matches, they understand why the Mutoh match is a disgrace.

I'll give you that, however Bret Hart was my hero as a kid, i grew up watching his classic encounters with numerous grapplers. I'm sure a wrestling fan of your apparent distinction would be familiar with the Hitman's finest work. Would you, in a completly unbiased way, be able to honestly say that Kawada equals the Hitman, if not better?...just out of curiousity....

 

This has been an inquisitive Taker Mark.

[Guest]

Once someone understands the nuances of his best matches, they understand why the Mutoh match is a disgrace.

The following is an excerpt from 'Power Slam' Magazine, a leading wrestling magazine printed within the United Kingdom...

 

Japan's Wrestler of the year for 2001 - Keiji Muto

 

"Another amazing recovery from a performer whom we last year predicted would need a divine intervention to qualify for the 2001 PS 50 (Power Slam Top 50 Wrestlers of the year). Knee trouble prevented his Jan.28 match with Taiyo Kea from metting expectations...To remedy this, the 38 year old switched to a mat based style...Beat Toshiaki Kawada in their first ever collision, a full on scorcher, in April...Pinned Genichiro Tenryu for the Triple Crown in a mat cracker on June 8...Put Yuji Nagata over in the magnificent final of the g-1 Climaz tournament...Made history when he and Kea captured the AJPW & NJPW World Tag Team Titles in a one week period in October...Japan's wrestler of the year"

 

Cannot argue the facts, BROTHER

 

This has been a statistical Oriental Taker Mark

[Guest Jubuki]

Hart worked a heavyweight style that was largely outdated in Japan - he was closer to Backlund than Mutoh, closer to Flair than Tsuruta.  Granted, the WWF has never been about taking risks with legitimate wrestling (leaving that for unnecessary stuntwork, mainly), and Hart was as good as they came for U.S. workers, during the early and mid-90's.  However, he was essentially working the same kinds of matches over and over, much like Flair had done in the 80's, rather than raising the level of difficulty as All Japan was doing at the same time.  

 

While he could work, execute, and structure a match as well as anyone in North America, he was rarely the best performer night in and night out as Flair had been - the show was usually stolen by his opponents, particularly Michaels and Austin.  Michaels wasn't a better wrestler by any stretch of the imagination, but he was superior at engaging an audience and knowing when to do something a little different to keep interest, rather than just rearranging the usual suspects in his repertoire.  In Austin's case, he could wrestle with Hart and also was the best brawler of the three in addition to being a good seller.  The one time Hart looked like a world-class seller and storyteller, he was upstaged by Austin having the night of his life.  So Hart wasn't always the best all-around worker on a given night in his own promotion, nor was he nearly as good a worker as Flair had been a decade before...and I've seen enough of Flair and Kawada in my life to know Kawada was better while doing much more difficult work.

 

As for the rest of your comments...

 

The following is an excerpt from 'Power Slam' Magazine, a leading wrestling magazine printed within the United Kingdom...

 

You trust them to say Mutoh is good, and I'll trust PWI to say HHH is good...how about that?

 

Um, or not.

 

Knee trouble prevented his Jan.28 match with Taiyo Kea from metting expectations...To remedy this, the 38 year old switched to a mat based style

 

That should read, "laying on the mat"-based style.  Which is basically Mutoh from 90-99 at his worst, only we get more of it.  I can only guess whoever wrote the article has seen fewer of his matches than I have, to insinuate there was a "switch" going on, let alone a good one.

 

Beat Toshiaki Kawada in their first ever collision, a full on scorcher, in April

 

Hackneyed buzzwords~!

 

Strike #1 - trusting someone's "scorcher" comments...

 

The Tenryu match was a damn good one, but that was thanks to Tenryu - NOT Mutoh.  That's pretty easy to understand if you, y'know, SEE the match.

 

Put Yuji Nagata over in the magnificent final of the g-1 Climaz tournament

 

Strike #2 - trusting someone's "magnificent" comments about a match where Nagata goes after Mutoh's arm...only to have Mutoh do a handspring elbow on the arm.  Didn't like it from Lo Ki', don't wanna see it from Mutoh.  That's called 'bad selling', in case you weren't aware.

 

Cannot argue the facts, BROTHER

 

Sure I can - because what you're claiming as facts are little more than opinions wrapped around factual results.  You want to buy into the 'scorcher' and 'amazing' and 'magnificent', and it's easier to do that when they're joined at the hip with his various accomplishments.  It doesn't mean any of the comments other than beating Kawada/Tenryu and winning the tag belts are right, though, particularly when you're not even trying to defend the matches themselves with what you gleaned from watching them (if you have watched them at all).  And letting fanboyism twist opinions into facts...well, that's strike 3.  Have a seat on the bench, shall you?

[Guest MRFTW]

I like Mutoh, i've liked most of his high profile matches i've seen that have gotten alot of praise from some but his 02 match vs Kawada was garbage and not just due to Mutoh,  I thought Kawada's preformance sucked as well.

 

There's only so many times I can watch Mutoh dropkick the knee, hit the Shining Wizard then lie around and stuff before it gets old real quick among other things. A ** match if even that.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

From what I've heard, MRFTW is exactly right in that not only did Mutoh stink up that match, but Kawada allowed Keji to pull him down to his levle. The thought of Kawada no-selling and generally crapping on the All Japan style before winning the Triple Crown may be the most disheartening news about the current Japanese wrestling scene I've ever heard.

[Guest MrDanger]

Japan's Wrestler of the year for 2001 - Keiji Muto

 

"Another amazing recovery from a performer whom we last year predicted would need a divine intervention to qualify for the 2001 PS 50 (Power Slam Top 50 Wrestlers of the year). Knee trouble prevented his Jan.28 match with Taiyo Kea from metting expectations...To remedy this, the 38 year old switched to a mat based style...Beat Toshiaki Kawada in their first ever collision, a full on scorcher, in April...Pinned Genichiro Tenryu for the Triple Crown in a mat cracker on June 8...Put Yuji Nagata over in the magnificent final of the g-1 Climaz tournament...Made history when he and Kea captured the AJPW & NJPW World Tag Team Titles in a one week period in October...Japan's wrestler of the year"

I suggest you watch those matches and form your own opinions about them.

 

Some of the comments in that little piece are WAY OFF. First off his match with Kawada wasn't a full on "scorcher" by any means, more of a full on disappointment. Secondly his match with Tenryu wasn't a "mat cracker", if anything it resembled a spot fest.

 

I'm not a Mutoh hater by any means but he certainly wasn't the best wrestler in Japan last year even though he did have a couple of great matches.

[Guest wolverine]

"I'm not a Mutoh hater by any means but he certainly wasn't the best wrestler in Japan last year even though he did have a couple of great matches."

 

He had a ***3/4 (IMO) match with Tenryu last year.  Everything else was pimped to the moon, but was in actuality quite severely overrated.

[Guest]

Hart worked a heavyweight style that was largely outdated in Japan - he was closer to Backlund than Mutoh, closer to Flair than Tsuruta.  Granted, the WWF has never been about taking risks with legitimate wrestling (leaving that for unnecessary stuntwork, mainly), and Hart was as good as they came for U.S. workers, during the early and mid-90's.  However, he was essentially working the same kinds of matches over and over, much like Flair had done in the 80's, rather than raising the level of difficulty as All Japan was doing at the same time.  

 

While he could work, execute, and structure a match as well as anyone in North America, he was rarely the best performer night in and night out as Flair had been - the show was usually stolen by his opponents, particularly Michaels and Austin.  Michaels wasn't a better wrestler by any stretch of the imagination, but he was superior at engaging an audience and knowing when to do something a little different to keep interest, rather than just rearranging the usual suspects in his repertoire.  In Austin's case, he could wrestle with Hart and also was the best brawler of the three in addition to being a good seller.  The one time Hart looked like a world-class seller and storyteller, he was upstaged by Austin having the night of his life.  So Hart wasn't always the best all-around worker on a given night in his own promotion, nor was he nearly as good a worker as Flair had been a decade before...and I've seen enough of Flair and Kawada in my life to know Kawada was better while doing much more difficult work.

 

As for the rest of your comments...

 

The following is an excerpt from 'Power Slam' Magazine, a leading wrestling magazine printed within the United Kingdom...

 

You trust them to say Mutoh is good, and I'll trust PWI to say HHH is good...how about that?

 

Um, or not.

 

Knee trouble prevented his Jan.28 match with Taiyo Kea from metting expectations...To remedy this, the 38 year old switched to a mat based style

 

That should read, "laying on the mat"-based style.  Which is basically Mutoh from 90-99 at his worst, only we get more of it.  I can only guess whoever wrote the article has seen fewer of his matches than I have, to insinuate there was a "switch" going on, let alone a good one.

 

Beat Toshiaki Kawada in their first ever collision, a full on scorcher, in April

 

Hackneyed buzzwords~!

 

Strike #1 - trusting someone's "scorcher" comments...

 

The Tenryu match was a damn good one, but that was thanks to Tenryu - NOT Mutoh.  That's pretty easy to understand if you, y'know, SEE the match.

 

Put Yuji Nagata over in the magnificent final of the g-1 Climaz tournament

 

Strike #2 - trusting someone's "magnificent" comments about a match where Nagata goes after Mutoh's arm...only to have Mutoh do a handspring elbow on the arm.  Didn't like it from Lo Ki', don't wanna see it from Mutoh.  That's called 'bad selling', in case you weren't aware.

 

Cannot argue the facts, BROTHER

 

Sure I can - because what you're claiming as facts are little more than opinions wrapped around factual results.  You want to buy into the 'scorcher' and 'amazing' and 'magnificent', and it's easier to do that when they're joined at the hip with his various accomplishments.  It doesn't mean any of the comments other than beating Kawada/Tenryu and winning the tag belts are right, though, particularly when you're not even trying to defend the matches themselves with what you gleaned from watching them (if you have watched them at all).  And letting fanboyism twist opinions into facts...well, that's strike 3.  Have a seat on the bench, shall you?

LOL, ...Yes Sir!

[Guest HopeSpot]

I'm through defending Mutoh on this board since damn near everyone here has something against him. Maybe he snubbed Chris outside the Nassau Colusieum when he was little and he dedicated his remaining years to slandering him whenever possible. Truth be told I don't want to defend Mutoh after his perfromance at Excite Series 2002, that was the biggest pile of shit I'd ever seen from him and his recent work has been unimpressive to say the least.

 

Bret Hart was the single greatest wrestler to work Stateside. Busted ass night in and night out and wasn't afarid to make his opponents look good. This man was all about the wrestling unlike the psuedo Calvin Klein models of today who care more about their pretty abs and hair than they do about what their actually doing in the ring.

[Guest wolverine]

"Bret Hart was the single greatest wrestler to work Stateside."

 

No, Liger was.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Bret Hart was the single greatest wrestler to work Stateside."

 

Yea and the greatest match of all time is the 5/7/89 Flair v Steamboat match.

 

I like Bret and his work was good, but Flair was better than him, Barry Windham was better than him...hell, Tommy Rogers never made it to the big time but he was a better worker than Hart (not to mention a smarter worker) than Hart.  

 

The Mutoh debate is old.  If people want to keep on praising and defending him, that's their own choice.  In the end it will only makethem look stupid.  Kind of like the typical WWF fan who will defend the mindless dribble that the WWF puts out week in and week out over something that is actually "Wrestling" based.

 

Tim