Best matches this year....

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Kind of like the typical WWF fan who will defend the mindless dribble that the WWF puts out week in and week out over something that is actually "Wrestling" based.

 

Who defends them these days? I thought everyone else, like me, were fed up and frustrated with their wrestling-less/non-entertaining/shitty product. You should pay more attention.

[Guest Stuart]

No, Liger was.

Hey, Jumbo and Kawada worked in America too, so there's many choices. :-)

[Guest PlatypusFool]

"Hey, Jumbo and Kawada worked in America too, so there's many choices. :-)"

 

I've never heard of that before, when was this?

[Guest The Son of Sting]

Jumbo wrestled in the AWA and was the champ there and Kawada had some matches in Stampede.

[Guest MrDanger]

"I'm not a Mutoh hater by any means but he certainly wasn't the best wrestler in Japan last year even though he did have a couple of great matches."

vs Genichiro Tenryu ****1/2

vs Steve Willians ***3/4

vs Yuji Nagata ****1/4

 

Two great matches and one really good one IMO. The rest is a mixture of god awful (Vs Murakami) and half decent (Nagata/Akiyama vs Mutoh/Hase)

[Guest MrDanger]

Jumbo and Kawada actually worked a fair bit in the States. Jumbo wrestled for the AWA, Detroit, Mid Atlantic and Amarillo while Kawada worked all over in places like Stampede, Montreal and San Antonio (Where he wrestled a young Shawn Michaels)

[Guest RickyChosyu]

According to most people, Kawada really didn't show nearly the amount of pure ability he had in North America, saving his best work for Japan. Jumbo could be a completely different story.

 

As for the Mutoh debate, I think most people can agree that his current state is no better than he was through the mid-to-late '90's, so I don't really understand why there's a debate at all. Mutoh has always shone signs of being good, but in the end was totally unreliable when it came to consistantly delivering in the ring. His work in WCW in '00 (only a few months before his "come-back") was just horrible. I think had Mutoh not made his come-back and had a few suprisingly-good matches (the Tenryu match being the peak) then there would be no cause for debate at all, because as it stands now he's just the same old lazy Mutoh, except now he's all about "Puroresu Love" or some crap like that. At least Muta had cool costumes and shit.

[Guest MrDanger]

According to most people, Kawada really didn't show nearly the amount of pure ability he had in North America, saving his best work for Japan. Jumbo could be a completely different story.

 

As for the Mutoh debate, I think most people can agree that his current state is no better than he was through the mid-to-late '90's, so I don't really understand why there's a debate at all. Mutoh has always shone signs of being good, but in the end was totally unreliable when it came to consistantly delivering in the ring. His work in WCW in '00 (only a few months before his "come-back") was just horrible. I think had Mutoh not made his come-back and had a few suprisingly-good matches (the Tenryu match being the peak) then there would be no cause for debate at all, because as it stands now he's just the same old lazy Mutoh, except now he's all about "Puroresu Love" or some crap like that. At least Muta had cool costumes and shit.

Yeah Kawada was basically a kid when he wrestled in Nirth America, although apparently it was clear that he was going to turn into something really special in the future.

 

I pretty much agree what you said about Mutoh, I don't think anybody would disagree that Mutoh is inconsistent and terribly lazy at times. However for me he did have a couple of great matches last summer, others have different opinions.

 

Danger, who obviously looks stupid because he thinks Mutoh vs Nagata/Tenryu are great matches.

[Guest wolverine]

"I'm not a Mutoh hater by any means but he certainly wasn't the best wrestler in Japan last year even though he did have a couple of great matches."

vs Genichiro Tenryu ****1/2

vs Steve Willians ***3/4

vs Yuji Nagata ****1/4

 

Two great matches and one really good one IMO. The rest is a mixture of god awful (Vs Murakami) and half decent (Nagata/Akiyama vs Mutoh/Hase)

Just so this doesn't look the wrong way, I AM a Mutoh hater.  Kind of gives the wrong impression there with that post.

[Guest HopeSpot]

I should have phrased my "Bret is sthe single greatest wrestler to ever work Sateside" comment a little differnetly. Did Bret put together the best body of work over the longest period of time in the States? Absoluetly not, my vote on that one goes to Flair. I need only watch The Owen Tribute Match to see how great Bret could be when he was motivated, he'll be my favorite wrestler for all eternity but was he the best from a strictly workrate standpoint? No.

 

Yes the Mutoh debate is beyond tired I think it's better for everyone if we all just put this one to bed.

[Guest wolverine]

"Yes the Mutoh debate is beyond tired I think it's better for everyone if we all just put this one to bed."

 

There was a debate?  Shit, and I thought he hasn't been any good since his 8/95 match with Hash.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

But there's no one else to argue about! I like arguments, they fun!

 

Alright... *thinks* what are your opinions on The Great Sasuke? Is he a much overated high spot guy or can he work many kinds of match well? Does he need carrying to create a well rounded match, or does he carry people to them?

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Man this thread is getting out of hand. I'm getting smacked in the face by opinions left and right.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

This might be the longest thread in the foreign folder... ever. I just want to keep it going, talking about whatever random puroresu stuff we can think of

[Guest MrDanger]

But there's no one else to argue about! I like arguments, they fun!

 

Alright... *thinks* what are your opinions on The Great Sasuke? Is he a much overated high spot guy or can he work many kinds of match well? Does he need carrying to create a well rounded match, or does he carry people to them?

A once great worker who's morphed into a crazy spot wrestler

[Guest PlatypusFool]

"A once great worker who's morphed into a crazy spot wrestler"

 

Im not sure it isn't the opposite. In 1999 Sasuke took a rookie, Magnum Tokyo, through a very decent match which had plenty of psychology to go with the high spots. In 1996, at the J Crown, Motegi worked on Sasuke's leg for some time, and then Sasuke went on to hit a bunch of high spots, using the leg, and win the match.

 

Granted, I ain't seen anything very recent, but that's my take. And having said that I recall his stellar performance in the J Cup 94...

[Guest The Son of Sting]

His work in WCW in '00 (only a few months before his "come-back") was just horrible

 

Agree on that one, his work in WCW - 00 was just plain bad.

 

Re - Sasuke

 

I havent seen much of his late 90s stuff, but i always hold him in high regard due to his performance in J Cup 94.

[Guest MrDanger]

If you've seen any Sasuke action in the last year then you'd see what I mean, he's seemingly on a mission to kill himself.

 

He's unfortunately morphed into a Japanese equivalent of Sabu

[Guest Jubuki]

Sasuke is the men's version of Manami Toyota, if you ask me (instead of Kobashi as many have said).  Sasuke doesn't go out of his way to carry his opponent; he does his stuff, and more often than not, that works.  But he's wrestling the same types of matches without a ton of variety or reason behind them, even if his spots are amazing.  I think the difference between Sasuke and Toyota lies in the fact that Toyota has had the better body of work, but Sasuke understands where he fits in a match more fully.  I'm not as high as some about the J-Cup Night (nor am I as high as I used to be - my own 4, 4.5, & 4.75 snowflakes went to 3.5, 4, 4.5 recently for his matches), but he knew how to make a finish matter, which is as important as any other aspect of working.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Agree on that one, his work in WCW - 00 was just plain bad.

 

Well to be fair nobody in WCW-00 was very good at all.

 

And Chris seriously.....I'm not trying to flame-bait but have you just seen so much wrestling that nothing impresses you anymore? Does it have to be perfect these days for you to praise it or recommend it? That's what I've seen from you on these boards. I often wonder if you even like wrestling.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Sasuke is the men's version of Manami Toyota, if you ask me (instead of Kobashi as many have said).  Sasuke doesn't go out of his way to carry his opponent; he does his stuff, and more often than not, that works.  But he's wrestling the same types of matches without a ton of variety or reason behind them, even if his spots are amazing.  I think the difference between Sasuke and Toyota lies in the fact that Toyota has had the better body of work, but Sasuke understands where he fits in a match more fully.  I'm not as high as some about the J-Cup Night (nor am I as high as I used to be - my own 4, 4.5, & 4.75 snowflakes went to 3.5, 4, 4.5 recently for his matches), but he knew how to make a finish matter, which is as important as any other aspect of working.

Even though I've never seen Toyota work, your description of Sasuke is just about dead-on. He's always willing to be carried to greatness, but rarely does he do much to carry lesser workers. His greatest matches always range from one-sided to brutal ass-kickings with a fluke win at the end.

 

Just curious, which of those star ratings for the J-Cup apply to which matches? I'm Vs. Samurai is what you rated ***1/2, but which of the latter two did you find to be better, Vs. Benoit or Vs. Liger? I'm personally split between which one I like more.

[Guest TopSecretMan]

Sasuke makes me want to scrape my eyes out with a fork. He's done the exact same match for years, with few exceptions, with every opponent. At least when he was younger he sort of had that "what's going to happen next" suspenseful aura. Now it's just sad.

[Guest Jubuki]

My ratings climbed up through the tournament, basically.

 

If nothing else, Sasuke was aces for big tag matches...though he was usually upstaged by TOGO and Hamada in the best stuff they did.  Hamada was just ridiculously good for a long time.  I've got to get myself some more of the UWF work after seeing the Brazos match on Marinepiad 2.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"I've got to get myself some more of the UWF work after seeing the Brazos match on Marinepiad 2."

 

I had the same thoughts after watching that match.  Will have to work on that sometime down the line.

 

Tim

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Huh?! This thread has strayed too far from the mainstream for my brain, I don't understand any more. Marinepiad? UWF? Brazos?

 

I mean, I love Hamada, the funky headbutt may be the greatest move in the history of wrestling, but all these terms confuse me and I want to learn, as always.

[Guest]

Man this thread is getting out of hand. I'm getting smacked in the face by opinions left and right.

Shut the fuck up! We didn't ask for your opinion!!!

 

lol, just kiddin' mate...

 

This has been an apologetic Old School Taker Mark

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Huh?! This thread has strayed too far from the mainstream for my brain, I don't understand any more. Marinepiad? UWF? Brazos?"

 

Marinepiad- the 11/90 AJW card that featured Interpromotional matches (I could be wrong there).  Features the Aja Kong v Bull Nakano Cage Match which is highly regarded by some people.  

 

UWF- Hamada's Universal Wrestling Federation.  This was basically the pre-cursor to Michinoku Pro.  A young, un masked Ultimo Dragon made his first real rounds in Japan in UWF...Mexican stars such as Negro Casas (the "shitty" Luchadore for Rolling Germans Video Review fans), Santo, etc.  Also, an unmasked Masa Michinoku (Sasuke) and Super Delphin got their starts here.

 

Brazo's were a "fat boy" Rudo team.

 

Tim

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Wow, that sounds good. I love fat boy rudo teams, like a whole army of great little Gedo's, awesome.

 

UWF shall be added to the near endless list of stuff I want, which is really starting to get me annoyed. I live in the UK, and by god it's really bloody expensive to get puroresu from someone who knows what they are dealing in. I mean, SST is a good supplier, but he does not know his tapes and has a very limited selection of Joshi stuff and 'lucharesu'.

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

Wow, that sounds good. I love fat boy rudo teams, like a whole army of great little Gedo's, awesome.

Um... when was the last time you watched a Gedo match?

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Super J Cup 95 was the last Gedo matches I've seen, nothing after that point yet. And yes, I am serious, I don't care what other people think about him, he is a good wrestler and does not deserve the criticism he gets.

 

Can someone please explain to me what is actually so bad about the guy?