Best matches this year....

[Guest MrDanger]

Super J Cup 95 was the last Gedo matches I've seen, nothing after that point yet. And yes, I am serious, I don't care what other people think about him, he is a good wrestler and does not deserve the criticism he gets.

 

Can someone please explain to me what is actually so bad about the guy?

There's nothing wrong with Gedoh at the moment, he's gotten himself into great shape over the last couple of years and has been one of the highlights of New Japan during the last year or so.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Yeah, hes fine now, but I think he was absolutely fine back in 94 - 95 as well. Problem is, no seems to be able to actually tell me what was wrong with him, and why everyone dislikes him and his performance in the J Cups.

 

Anyone? I really want to know!

[Guest Tim Cooke]

The main "Smark" (for lack of a better phrase...or should I say Scott Keith followers) reason for hating Gedo in 94-95 is because he fought Benoit twice and the second time went over Benoit.  

 

In 1994/95, there were a ton of other Juniors in the world who were world class workers while Gedo was just there.  Since 2000, though I think somewhat over rated, he has improved his physique and his overall work rate to become a solid regular Junior.

 

Tim

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Hey I have respect for Gedo after the 95 tournament. He took an absolutely stiff and hellacious ass beating from Benoit. And it didn't look like what Lyger did to him felt to good either. Gotta have respect for a man that can get his ass whipped like that and not bitch and moan.

I just hated his hair in 95....isn't he shaved now though? Better than the blonde afro.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Essentially, Gedoh was quite mediocre in both J-Cups, especially compared to everyone else. He wasn't terribly offensive in '94, although he didn't exactly provide the best opener for the show and, like many have said, was just there. However, it was no worse than Ricky Fuji that year. The real offense was in '95, when he stunk up the entire card doing some really pedestrain heel work while trying to build up simpathy face heat. First he got his on-again off-again arm injury going, then he did some pointless heel work against Dos Caras (heel? face? who cares?) then went over Benoit for no reason and pretty much made the finals worthless since no one in their right mind thought he was going to win. It ruined the tournament, in some ways.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Puh, Gedo's heel work throughout the tournament might have been, and I'm guessing here, to get him over as a heel. The fact that he wins on flukes is to get him over as a bitchy, flukey heel, and him getting to the finals was to put him over as a new star, the same way CIMA got to the finals in 2000.

 

As for him ruining the tournament, I really don't see it as I enjoyed every single one of his matches and found them varied and well executed. As for him ruining the finals match, or at least making it worse than it could have been, at least Gedo possesses some sort of character, unlike Wild 'I am very bland, but the internet folks like me because I've got workrate, whatever that means' Pegasus.

 

And I know someone is gonna complain, but I do not appreciate Benoit just because he is Benoit, and during the J Cups he did not impress me as much as a lot of the other folk there, he does not sell as well as a lot of people and he has no character or mannerisms that are interesting enough to set him apart from the standard junior wrestler.

 

So... Gedo deserved to be in the finals of the Super J Cup 95.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Puh, Gedo's heel work throughout the tournament might have been, and I'm guessing here, to get him over as a heel. The fact that he wins on flukes is to get him over as a bitchy, flukey heel, and him getting to the finals was to put him over as a new star, the same way CIMA got to the finals in 2000.

 

As for him ruining the tournament, I really don't see it as I enjoyed every single one of his matches and found them varied and well executed. As for him ruining the finals match, or at least making it worse than it could have been, at least Gedo possesses some sort of character, unlike Wild 'I am very bland, but the internet folks like me because I've got workrate, whatever that means' Pegasus.

 

And I know someone is gonna complain, but I do not appreciate Benoit just because he is Benoit, and during the J Cups he did not impress me as much as a lot of the other folk there, he does not sell as well as a lot of people and he has no character or mannerisms that are interesting enough to set him apart from the standard junior wrestler.

 

So... Gedo deserved to be in the finals of the Super J Cup 95.

Look, if Gedoh was supposed to be heel, then why did they give him the stupid arm injury against Motegi? He was selling it like death whenever he had the attention span to remember it was there, and yet he was using cheep heel tacticts to win. I have no problem with building up a bitchy heel, but if it's at the expense of a tournament that could be one of the best ever put together, with a wrestler who doesn't deserve to get the push, then I do disagree.

 

Out of Gedoh's four matches at the show, the first was a stinker with Motegi (an indy 4 life junior if there ever was one), a lifeless match with Dos Caras, and some complete ass-kickings against Benoit and Liger which were only good because he was getting destroyed through most of them and didn't get a chance to crap them up with his horrid offense. As for Gedoh's "character" they were trying to push him as some kind of scumy heel, and he does not know how to play that heel without taking away from the match. Watch any Kaientai DX match and you'll see how a heel of that nature is supposed to behave. Gedoh was just horrible in that tournament, selling his arm at the wrong times, playing a face wrestler one second and then cheating out of no-where to get wins.

 

Benoit's "lack of character" is rubish, as his match with Jericho that night was way better than anything Gedoh did, and he was visably carrying the slob through their semifinal match. Benoit plays a perfectly good character, that of one who doesn't take shit and destroys cockey heels with no talent like Gedoh was at the time. Not to mention that Benoit had previously had matches with Liger that were better than any singles match Gedoh could hope to have in his entire career, and he would have proved a much better outlet for Liger to defeat in the finals considering their history and the fact that Benoit won the tournament the year before. Then again, I'm sorry if facts hurt your superficial disliking for Benoit and/or strange inclination towards shitty juniors who can't carry their gimick in a way that doesn't suck ass. However, WAR's desire to push one of their workers to finals outweighted decent logic, so we got Gedoh as our no-talent sacrificial lamb for Liger and the drama was gone. Oh wait, Gedoh totally built on that momentum from going to the finals and it only took him six years to become a decent junior after that, nevermind, how could I hate on someone so deserving of a win over one of the greatest wrestlers of this generation! Silly me.

[Guest MRFTW]

"Benoit's "lack of character" is rubish, as his match with Jericho that night was way better than anything Gedoh did"

 

I hate that match and most all of Jericho's Japan work in general too. The way he always yells shit out is one of the most anoying things i've ever seen in wrestling and it usually makes me want to either push mute or push stop and just not watch the match at all.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Yeah Jericho yelling was annoying. But that's why it was great when Benoit slapped the taste out of his mouth.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Ricky Chosyu, your opinions and mine obviously differ and it is pointless to argue further about the J Cup 95, I love it, you do not. But just answer me one question, don't argue about it, just please try and answer it.

 

What is so special about Benoit in 94/95? What one thing set him apart from a textbook junior wrestler?

 

As for Jericho, he too was nothing special in 95, the screaming did suck and he was nothing stunning in the ring either.

[Guest Jubuki]

Benoit was aces at kicking someone's ass as a way of getting them over, in addition to regular means of getting someone over.  The 95 match with Gedo is just one example of that (though it needed more Gedo offense).

 

Good thing this thread got hateful enough to slow down and allow me the 100th post on it...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Ricky Chosyu, your opinions and mine obviously differ and it is pointless to argue further about the J Cup 95, I love it, you do not. But just answer me one question, don't argue about it, just please try and answer it.

 

What is so special about Benoit in 94/95? What one thing set him apart from a textbook junior wrestler?

 

As for Jericho, he too was nothing special in 95, the screaming did suck and he was nothing stunning in the ring either.

First, let it be said that I do enjoy the '95 J-Cup, there's just some things about the booking that annoy me to no end.

 

Benoit was set apart on the fact that he destroyed other juniors in the ring and had an offense that looked dangerous enough to hurt a heavyweight. He used some of the most dangerous moves I've seen used in wrestling (Second-Rope Tombstone, Superbomb, ect.) and was a machine in a sea of "bitchy heels" and flippy-floping masked wrestlers. In some ways he seemed like Vader-light, using the unstoppable monster persona as a mold and adding some crazy high-spots and stellar matwork to keep it from becoming too one-dimensional (which was the big problem for guys like Testuhito Takaiwa).

 

You know, for someone who was just talking about the necesity of "character" in a junior and how great Gedoh was at portraying a "bitchy heel" you sure did have a sudden change of heart for Jericho, eh? Jericho's screaming only annoyed you because it was in english and thus, more audible to you. Gedoh was screaming a ton, too, if you payed attention. Not to mention that Jericho was every bit as good at playing the scummy heel as Gedoh was, and also had a better move-set at the time. Plus, for my money, Benoit/Jericho was a much better match than Benoit/Gedoh, which was just a glorified squash until the end.

 

For whoever slammed all of Jericho's Japanese work, check out his famous WAR match with Ultimo Dragon, and then try to tell me he wasn't at least a good worker at the time.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Hmm, you're probably right about Jericho / Gedo, I'll give you that. Oh who am I kidding, I can't be arsed to argue and I rarely think too hard about my posts, you are probly more right about all this than I am

 

I'm glad this thread reached 100 posts by the way, finally we have a lengthy thread on the foreign board, even if it is full of pointlessness.

[Guest MRFTW]

"For whoever slammed all of Jericho's Japanese work, check out his famous WAR match with Ultimo Dragon"

 

I'd rather not

 

I don't know which match of theirs is the famous one but i've seen 2 Jericho vs Ultimo matches so far, 3/26/95 and 7/7/95.  

 

Inbetween all of Jericho's retarded yapping, the wrestling wasn't anything special in either match.

 

I'll take Gedo over Jericho any day.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

"For whoever slammed all of Jericho's Japanese work, check out his famous WAR match with Ultimo Dragon"

 

I'd rather not

 

I don't know which match of theirs is the famous one but i've seen 2 Jericho vs Ultimo matches so far, 3/26/95 and 7/7/95.  

 

Inbetween all of Jericho's retarded yapping, the wrestling wasn't anything special in either match.

 

I'll take Gedo over Jericho any day.

I have not seen Gedoh as he is today, but speaking stricktly from a '95 perspective, Jericho showed more talent in those matches with Ultimo than I have ever seen from Gedoh. Jericho used a better offense than anything I have ever seen from Gedoh, who can't seem to do anything without making it look sloppy. Plus, as I stated before, if you just take the two of them and compare their matches with Benoit from the same night, it's obvious that Jericho was much better, as he sold better, bumped better, and used more credible offense than Gedoh did. While I'll admit it's slightly unfair to compare them considering Benoit and Jericho were probably more familiar with each other, but I think it's still obvious who was the better wrestler at the time just from seeing the two of them work. But hey, if you're so eager to see more Gedoh as the shitty junior that he was in 1995, by all means, go nutts.

[Guest Black Tiger]

I'm going to take all the topics and put them together.

 

Mutoh gets so much praise because most of us saw him first in NWA when he blew our minds. His sucking is noticable. I did enjoy the Tenryu match.

 

Sasuke was the Jr. Muta, he blew our minds but now its being noticed how much he sucks, I was watching him in 1996 and then saw him in J Cup 3 and the change was VERY noticable.

 

I've seen Gedo in both J Cups, FMW, ECW, and WCW and I've never been thrilled with him. I'll have to check out his more recent stuff if he's improved so damn much.

 

Jericho's yapping during matches seemed "cool" when I first saw it in WCW with his "Come on Baby" but watching it now it just comes off as annoying.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

*yey* The typical 'foreign' folder bitterness and hate fueled critisism of particular wrestlers has eaten through this thread like the cancer it is. I just feel sorry for Gedo, Mutoh, Jericho in 95 etc. I mean, they are pretty poor at certain aspects of their wrestling ability, but they are all still entertaining to watch in a casual manner, so lets just stop hating them. They try, they might fail but they do try.

[Guest Jubuki]

Cancer?

 

I remember the last time that word got used in conjunction with wrestling...and the results were comical, to say the least.  So please, expound.  I need a good laugh.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Mutoh tries? From what I understand from people on this forum he doesn't try at all.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Alright, maybe I've lost what I'm talking about, im tired and I'm rambling on a message board, is that a crime?

 

No, Mutoh doesn't try. I described the bitterness as a 'cancer' because it occured to me that as one respected reviewer / opinionated message board member becomes bitter, its only a matter of time before others follow his lead and watch so much wrestling that they too become bitter and so on. I'm coming close to this stage and I want to spot myself before I get the cancer too... or something.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

No, Mutoh doesn't try. I described the bitterness as a 'cancer' because it occured to me that as one respected reviewer / opinionated message board member becomes bitter, its only a matter of time before others follow his lead and watch so much wrestling that they too become bitter and so on. I'm coming close to this stage and I want to spot myself before I get the cancer too... or something.

What about watching wrestling supposedly makes fans of it bitter? Simply put, I didn't like Gedoh from the first time I saw him work, and haven't liked him since. That's the explanantion. No talk of "following the leader" needed. I will respect the fact that I haven't seen enough of his recent (and supposedly vastly improved) work to judge on whether he is currently good, but I haven't seen a single Gedoh performance from the mid '90's that made me think I wanted to see more of him.

[Guest Jubuki]

Newsflash, kid - it ain't a bad thing to expect wrestlers to do their jobs well.  That's the standard for nearly every other job in the world, whether it's well-paying or not, entertainment or not, so we should need no excuses for holding them to that standard.  If you feel bad for suddenly having expectations, that's your problem.  Don't try to pretend it anyone else's.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Ricky, I'm not even talking about Gedo anymore, what makes you despise someone so much that you perceive everything someone says as an insult to that person?

 

ITS THE CANCER!

 

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Ricky, I'm not even talking about Gedo anymore, what makes you despise someone so much that you perceive everything someone says as an insult to that person?

 

ITS THE CANCER!

 

Well, when you said you felt bad for him, Mutoh, and Jericho, I took that as a sign that you were indeed refering to Gedoh.

 

I still don't get what this cancer is supposed to be. Do I have cancer because I don't like everything? I'm being serious here. An explanantion please?

[Guest PlatypusFool]

I really don't know, im rambling, like I said.