Crimson G 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Guys that are often left off of discussions of Hall of Fame players go on this list, or people that you think won't make it in (and probably shouldn't) but were almost always much better than average. I'll start off the list with three names (and stats from baseball-reference.com): Tim Raines (OF) - (113 triples, 808 stolen bases, 2605 hits, .294 lifetime batting average, 7 time Allstar (7 consecutive), top 10 MVP finish for 3 years, 1987 Allstar Game MVP) Similar Batters Lou Brock (861) * Max Carey (855) * Willie Davis (848) Jimmy Ryan (828) Jose Cruz (822) Fred Clarke (816) * Harry Hooper (814) * Enos Slaughter (814) * Mickey Vernon (808) Rod Carew (807) * Albert Belle (OF/DH) - (381 home runs, 1726 hits, .295 lifetime batting average, 5 time Allstar (5 consecutive), top 10 MVP finish for 5 years) Similar Batters Juan Gonzalez (911) Jim Thome (891) Manny Ramirez (883) Dick Allen (867) Hank Greenberg (859) * Larry Walker (857) Gary Sheffield (854) Rocky Colavito (852) Ralph Kiner (851) * Frank Howard (848) Lance Parrish © - (324 home runs, 1782 hits, .252 lifetime batting average, 8 time Allstar (non-consecutive), top 10 MVP finish for 1 year) Similar Batters Gary Carter (879) * Benito Santiago (850) Bill Freehan (806) Gabby Hartnett (806) * Yogi Berra (797) * Johnny Bench (795) * Ron Cey (791) Darrell Porter (782) Vern Stephens (782) Ernie Lombardi (770) * Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 I absolutely think Tim Raines deserves the Hall of Fame. Along with 808 steals, he was only caught 146 times, for an 84% success rate. By comparison, Lou Brock, who stole 938 bases, was caught 307 times. Belle played at an All-Star level, but didn't play long enough. I can't see Lance Parrish as a viable candidate at all. Only once did he crack the top-10 in MVP voting, finishing 9th in 1983. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Mattingly. He might eventually get in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Mattingly had a great peak, but its hard to endorse a guy who fell off the table so quickly. There are alot of first basemen in baseball today with HOF arguments (Bagwell, Thomas, McGwire, McGriff) and that will make it difficult. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson G 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 I can't see Lance Parrish as a viable candidate at all. Only once did he crack the top-10 in MVP voting, finishing 9th in 1983. By sheer numbers, Lance Parrish is one of the greatest catchers of all-time. I think you may be judging his BA too severely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Mattingly had a great peak, but its hard to endorse a guy who fell off the table so quickly. There are alot of first basemen in baseball today with HOF arguments (Bagwell, Thomas, McGwire, McGriff) and that will make it difficult. Somehow, I can still see him sneaking in eventually. Just a hunch. I don't think he's so far off that it would cause an uproar, and the writers always kind of liked him. I just wouldn't be shocked if he made it one day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Most people would say 500 HRs should automatically get you into the HoF, but after watching Fred McGriff's career, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm sure McGriff would make it in if he reaches 500, but what if he ends up up stuck at, like, 499? Is one more home run going to be the difference? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Tim Raines and Albert Belle aren't eligible yet. Hard to say what kind of support Raines will get. The Almost HOF should include Bill Buckner. 2700 hits in an injury plagued career. He's healthy for 3 of those seasons and he's a 3,000 hit member. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 I can't see Lance Parrish as a viable candidate at all. Only once did he crack the top-10 in MVP voting, finishing 9th in 1983. By sheer numbers, Lance Parrish is one of the greatest catchers of all-time. I think you may be judging his BA too severely. Trust me, I am the last person who will judge a player solely by his batting average. But his OBP (.313) is also quite low. In fact, that OBP is 20 points less than ANY catcher currently in the HOF. His OPS only beats two catchers currently in the Hall. Again, he never finished higher than 9th in MVP voting. How can he be anywhere near HOF quality when voters of his time didn't think he was incredibly valuable? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 I think a stronger case can be made for Ted Simmons than Lance Parish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 For another candidate, Bert Blyleven. He was only an All-Star twice in his career. But he played mostly for bad teams, finished third career in strikeouts (since displaced to fifth), and won 287 games. If he won 13 more, we wouldn't even have this discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Pete Rose - Kinda obvious playing wise... Bob Johnson(1933-1945) - 2,051 hits; 396 2B's; 1,075 BB's; .296/.393/.506 line; Scored a 46.0 on the HOF Standards test. 161 on the Gray Ink and 91.5 on the HOF Monitor. Andre Dawson(1976-1996) - 2,774 hits; 438 HR's; 1,591 RBI's; 8 GG's; Won the MVP in 1987. Scored 43.7 on the HOF Standards and 118 in the Monitor. Wade Boggs(Is he eligable yet?) Jim Rice(1974-1989) - 2,452 Hits; 382 HR's; 1,451 RBI's; .298/.352/.508 line; Won the MVP in 1978. Placed in the Top 5 in MVP Voting 6 times in his career. Scored a 33 on the Black Ink Test, 176 on the Gray Ink, 42.9 on the HOF Standards and 146.5 on the HOF Monitor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson G 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Pete Rose - Kinda obvious playing wise... Bob Johnson(1933-1945) - 2,051 hits; 396 2B's; 1,075 BB's; .296/.393/.506 line; Scored a 46.0 on the HOF Standards test. 161 on the Gray Ink and 91.5 on the HOF Monitor. Andre Dawson(1976-1996) - 2,774 hits; 438 HR's; 1,591 RBI's; 8 GG's; Won the MVP in 1987. Scored 43.7 on the HOF Standards and 118 in the Monitor. Wade Boggs(Is he eligable yet?) Jim Rice(1974-1989) - 2,452 Hits; 382 HR's; 1,451 RBI's; .298/.352/.508 line; Won the MVP in 1978. Placed in the Top 5 in MVP Voting 6 times in his career. Scored a 33 on the Black Ink Test, 176 on the Gray Ink, 42.9 on the HOF Standards and 146.5 on the HOF Monitor. I'm gonna guess you're a Red Sox fan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson G 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 I think people are misinterpreting the topic. These are guys that are on the cusp of going to the HoF, but will never make it. Not future hall o' famers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Wade Boggs(Is he eligable yet?) He'll have his first year of eligibility next year and he's a lock to get in on the first ballot. Here's the first time eligible players next year: 2005: Jim Abbott, Jeff Blauser, Wade Boggs, Tom Candiotti, Chili Davis, Jeff King, Mark Langston, Jack McDowell, Willie McGee, Brian McRae, Jeff Montgomery, Otis Nixon, Tony Phillips, Mark Portugal, Terry Steinbach, Darryl Strawberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson G 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Wade Boggs(Is he eligable yet?) He'll have his first year of eligibility next year and he's a lock to get in on the first ballot. Here's the first time eligible players next year: 2005: Jim Abbott, Jeff Blauser, Wade Boggs, Tom Candiotti, Chili Davis, Jeff King, Mark Langston, Jack McDowell, Willie McGee, Brian McRae, Jeff Montgomery, Otis Nixon, Tony Phillips, Mark Portugal, Terry Steinbach, Darryl Strawberry Do you guys think Abbott will get a pity vote in? (Not to sound mean, but he doesn't really deserve it) I miss Black Jack McDoweel & Tony Phillips (my all-time favorite batting stance). Terry Steinbach could make it. No way will Strawberry make it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson G 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 How about this man: Dave Parker (OF/DH) - (339 home runs, 2712 hits, .290 lifetime batting average, 7 time Allstar (non-consecutive), 3 time Gold Glover, top 10 MVP finish for 7 years, 1978 NL MVP, 1979 Allstar Game MVP) Similar Batters View in Pop-up Tony Perez (900) * Billy Williams (882) * Harold Baines (866) Andre Dawson (865) Al Oliver (860) Jim Rice (856) Rusty Staub (855) Chili Davis (854) Dwight Evans (853) Vada Pinson (846) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Parker's interesting, because many thought, at the time, that he was a future HOFer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixrising 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 What might keep Parker out was the fact that he was involved in the Pittsburgh cocaine scandal of the 1980's. It will either keep him out or he'll have to wait a while like Orlando Cepeda did (Cepeda was busted for drug possession shortly after his career had ended, I believe he was inducted in to the HOF about 20 years after he was first eligible). How about: Jim Kaat (P, 1959-1983) - 898 G, 4530.3 IP, 283-237 record, 3.45 ERA 3 time All-Star, 16 Gold Gloves (consecutive), 1 Top 10 MVP, 1 Top 10 CYA, 29th all time in Wins, 24th all time in Innings Pitched, 15th all time in Games Pitched, 13th all time Games Started, 29th all time Strikeouts Black Ink: Pitching - 19 (97) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 128 (131) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 44.0 (50) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 130.5 (52) (Likely HOFer > 100) Similar Pitchers: Tommy John (923) Robin Roberts (917) * Fergie Jenkins (891) * Eppa Rixey (875) * Bert Blyleven (854) Early Wynn (849) * Burleigh Grimes (846) * Frank Tanana (845) Red Ruffing (839) * Ted Lyons (837) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Ted Lyons is in the Hall of Fame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2004 Some other nominations... Vada Pinson(1958-1975) - 2,757 hits; 305 SB's; 1,170 RBI's; 1 GG; 2 All-Star appearances; Finished in the Top 10 of MVP voting twice(10th and 3rd in 1963 and 1961). Appeared in the 1961 World Series. Most similar hitter? Roberto Clemente. Ranks 44th in Hits, 46th in Total Bases, 53rd in Extra Base Hits and 21st in Power/Speed. Black Ink: Batting - 18 (119) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 135 (119) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 35.9 (181) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 87.0 (173) (Likely HOFer > 100) Al Oliver(1968-1985) - 2,743 hits; 529 doubles; 1,326 RBI's; Won the 1971 World Series. Appeared in 5 NLCS' and 1 ALCS. 7 Time All-Star and finished 7th in 1972, 7th in 1974 and 3rd in 1982 in MVP Voting. Most similar hitter is Steve Garvey. Ranks 46th in Hits, 27th in Doubles, 36th in Sacrifice Flies. Black Ink: Batting - 16 (135) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 127 (135) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 39.7 (143) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 113.0 (119) (Likely HOFer > 100) Overall Rank in parentheses. Rusty Staub(1963-1985) - 2,716 hits; 499 doubles; 1,255 walks; 1,466 RBI's; .362/.431 OBP/SLG; Appeared in the 1973 World Series. 6 Time All-Star; Finished 5th in MVP Voting in 1978. Most similar hitter is Tony Perez. Ranks 6th in Sacrifice Flies, 38th in Walks, 43rd in RBI's, 11th in Games Played, 50th in Hits, 35th in Times on Base and 41st in Doubles. Black Ink: Batting - 4 (388) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 89 (251) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 37.7 (164) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 59.0 (286) (Likely HOFer > 100) Overall Rank in parentheses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
