Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2004 I'm not sure why Sutter is so much more popular than Gossage. Maybe the creation of the split-finger fastball? Sutter popularized the pitch, but by his own account he didn't invent it. I agree. I also don't think anyone listed on the veterans committe is really deserving. These are good players..guys like Tony Olivia could of been great but injuries happen. You can't vote by what might have been. I really think Ron Santo deserves the Hall. His career numbers are deserving when you account for the fact that he played during the second dead ball era. I've also heard an interesting case for Minnie Minoso, that he very likely would have HOF numbers if not for the color line (he debuted in 1949 at the age of 26). Did not know that. Minoso very likely? That's the problem. There's no guarantee Minoso would have had HOF numbers. The HOF should look at voting in more Negro League players. I can't believe they've found all the HOF worthy Negro league players. The easiest explanation for Sutter and Gossage. Gossage=Asshole. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2004 Well, Minoso was as great in his 30s as anyone else in baseball history. He didn't get started until he was 28 because of the color line. Now the argument isn't that Minoso would have been a great player in his 20s. The argument is that Minoso WAS a great player in his 20s, but he didn't get an opportunity because of the color line. He's screwed because his career straddles 1947. Minoso would have needed 1,037 hits for 3,000. Give him a full career, and he could reach it. Keep in mind this isn't my argument. I'm just repeating it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2004 I figured I'd post this here since Dave Concepcion is still on the HOF ballot. Latest words of wisdom from Joe Morgan. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor..._joe&id=1848472 If you're considering offense and defense and team leadership, Concepcion still might be the best all-around shortstop ever -- not counting A-Rod, since he's a third baseman now. Now I know he's biased because they were teammates but...is Joe smoking crack? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2004 Morgan's extremely partial to old teammates and players of the same era. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2004 Most players are. Frankie Frisch elected many of his teammates (Jim Bottomley, George Kelly, Ross Youngs, Fred Lindstrom, Chick Hafey, Jesse Haines) when he sat on the veterans' committee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beast 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2004 That's some crazy thinking by Morgan there. Concepcion isn't even comparable to Honus Wagner, Ernie Banks, Cal Ripken, Arky Vaughn, and even Alan Trammel among others. I'd sooner like to see Bert Campaneris or Vern Stephens go in before Concepcion, and I know, and hope that will never happen. I also know that at induction ceremony, Bench also commented that he wanted Concepcion in the hall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2004 Since I did the 2005 newly eligible players, I might as well do 2006. There are probably no future HOF's on this list although a few guys who looked like HOF's at certain points in there career. In case your wondering to be eligible for the HOF you only had to play 10 years, since you might ask yourself "why the hell is Jaime Navarro on a HOF ballot?" One addition I will add to the bottom of the list. The HOF's official site doesn't list this player on the future elections list although his last year was 2000 but he was under contract through 2003 so I'm not sure how that will work as to when they are eligible. Rick Aguilera - Closer - New York (NL) 1985-89, Minnesota 1989-95 96-99, Boston 1995, Chicago (NL) 1999-2000 Gray Ink: Pitching - 30 (734) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 12.0 (492) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 89.0 (119) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 3 All-Star selections. Career Rankings: 47th in strikeouts per nine innings, 10th in saves. Most Similar Player: Doug Jones Tim Belcher - Starting Pitcher - Los Angeles 1987-91, Cincinnati 1992-93, Chicago (AL) 1993, Detroit 1994, Seattle 1995, Kansas City 1996-98, Anaheim 1999-2000 Black Ink: Pitching - 4 (434) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 64 (366) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 12.0 (492) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 20.5 (560) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 time led league in complete games, 1 time led league in shutouts. Most Similar Player: Jim Lonberg Will Clark - First Baseman - San Francisco 1986-93, Texas 1994-98, Balimore 1999-2000, St. Louis 2000 Black Ink: Batting - 13 (172) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 94 (232) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 41.9 (123) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 83.5 (186) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 NLCS MVP, 1 Gold Glove, 1 time led league in slugging, 1 time led league in runs, 1 time led league in total bases, 1 time led league in RBI, 1 time led league in walks. Career Rankings: 84th in OPS, 81st in doubles, 85th in OPS+. OPS+: 138 Most Similar Player: Edgar Martinez Alex Fernandez - Starting Pitcher - Chicago (AL) 1990-96, Florida 1997-2000 Gray Ink: Pitching - 77 (294) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 13.0 (452) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 12.0 (768) (Likely HOFer > 100) Most Similar Player: Steve Stone Gary Gaetti - Third Baseman - Minnesota 1981-90, California 1991-93, Kansas City 1993-95, St. Louis 1996-98, Chicago (NL) 1998-99, Boston 2000 Black Ink: Batting - 1 (685) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 31 (719) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 29.5 (293) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 51.5 (333) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 ALCS MVP, 4 Gold Gloves, 2 All-Star selections. Career Rankings: 76th in total bases, 77th in doubles, 59th in homeruns, 71st in RBI. OPS+: 96 Most Similar Player: Graig Nettles Dwight Gooden - Starting Pitcher - New York (NL) 1984-94, New York (AL) 1996-97 2000, Cleveland 1998-99, Houston 2000, Tampa Bay 2000 Black Ink: Pitching - 23 (74) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 139 (111) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 40.0 (68) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 88.5 (123) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 Cy Young, ROY, 4 All-Star selections, 1 time led league in ERA, 1 time led league in wins, 1 time led league in hits per nine innings, 1 time led league in strikeouts per nine innings, 2 times led league in strikeouts, 1 time led league in complete games. Career Rankings: 39th in strikeouts per nine innings, 41st in strikeouts. Most Similar Player: David Cone Ozzie Guillen - Shortstop - Chicago (AL) 1985-97, Baltimore 1998, Atlanta 1998-99, Tampa Bay 2000 Gray Ink: Batting - 11 (1244) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 16.8 (902) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 31.0 (536) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: ROY, 1 Gold Glove, 3 All-Star selections. OPS+: 69 Most Similar Player: Alfredo Griffin Juan Guzman - Starting Pitcher - Toronto 1991-98, Baltimore 1998-99, Cincinnati 1999, Tampa Bay 2000 Black Ink: Pitching - 10 (221) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 54 (436) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 8.0 (682) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 25.0 (461) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 All-Star selection, 1 time led league in ERA, 1 time led league in hits per nine innings. Career Rankings: 28th in strikeouts per nine innings. Most Similar Player: Chan Ho Park Orel Hershiser - Starting Pitcher - Los Angeles 1983-94 2000, Cleveland 1995-97, San Francisco 1998, New York (NL) 1999 Black Ink: Pitching - 20 (86) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 129 (129) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 34.0 (98) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 90.5 (113) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 Cy Young, 1 World Series MVP, 1 NLCS MVP, 1 ALCS MVP, 1 Gold Glove, 3 All-Star selections, 1 time led league in wins, 1 time led league in complete games, 2 times led league in shutouts. Career Rankings: 93rd in wins, 57th in strikeouts. Most Similar Player: Bob Welch Gregg Jefferies - First Baseman/Second Baseman/Left Fielder/Third Baseman - New York (NL) 1987-91, Kansas City 1992, St. Louis 1993-94, Philadelphia 1995-98, Anaheim 1998, Detroit 1999-2000 Black Ink: Batting - 2 (561) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 25 (843) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 17.1 (855) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 19.0 (745) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 2 All-Star selections, 1 time led league in doubles. OPS+: 106 Most Similar Player: Kevin Seitzer Lance Johnson - Center Fielder - St. Louis 1987, Chicago (AL) 1988-95, New York (NL) 1996-97, Chicago (NL) 1997-99, New York (AL) 2000 Black Ink: Batting - 13 (172) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 44 (539) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 17.2 (847) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 31.0 (536) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 All-Star selection, 2 times led league in hits, 5 times led league in triples. OPS+: 94 Most Similar Player: Duff Cooley Doug Jones - Closer - Milwaukee 1982 1996-98, Cleveland 1986-91 98, Houston 1992-93, Philadelphia 1994, Baltimore 1995, Chicago (NL) 1996, Oakland 1999-2000 Gray Ink: Pitching - 29 (767) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 11.0 (531) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 79.0 (137) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 5 All-Star selections. Career Rankings: 15th in saves. Most Similar Player: Jeff Reardon Roberto Kelly - Center Fielder - New York (AL) 1987-92 2000, Cincinnati 1993-94, Atlanta 1994, Montreal 1995, Los Angeles 1995, Minnesota 1996-97, Seattle 1997, Texas 1998-99 Black Ink: Batting - 1 (685) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 12 (1201) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 16.9 (890) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 9.0 (1084) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 2 All-Star selections. OPS+: 106 Most Similar Player: Tilly Walker Mickey Morandini - Second Baseman - Philadelphia 1990-97 2000, Chicago (NL) 1998-99, Toronto 2000 Gray Ink: Batting - 8 (1413) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 17.0 (860) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 7.0 (1214) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 All-Star selection. OPS+: 84 Most Similar Player: Frankie Gustine Hal Morris - First Baseman - New York (AL) 1988-89, Cincinnati 1990-97 99-2000, Kansas City 1998, Detroit 2000 Gray Ink: Batting - 21 (923) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 18.0 (775) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 23.0 (654) (Likely HOFer > 100) OPS+: 111 Most Similar Player: John Kruk Jaime Navarro - Starting Pitcher - Milwaukee 1989-1994 2000, Chicago (NL) 1995-96, Chicago (AL) 1997-99, Cleveland 2000 Gray Ink: Pitching - 47 (508) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 5.0 (826) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 8.0 (949) (Likely HOFer > 100) Most Similar Player: Pedro Astacio Luis Polonia - Left Fielder - Oakland 1987-89, New York (AL) 1989-90 94-95 2000, California 1990-93, Atlanta 1995 96, Baltimore 1996, Detroit 1999-2000 Gray Ink: Batting - 12 (1201) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 17.2 (847) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 5.5 (1346) (Likely HOFer > 100) OPS+: 97 Most Similar Player: Jack Smith Mike Stanley - Catcher - Texas 1986-91, New York (AL) 1992-95 97, Boston 1996-97 98-2000, Toronto 1998, Oakland 2000 Gray Ink: Batting - 3 (1895) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 25.0 (438) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 5.5 (1346) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 All-Star selection. OPS+: 117 Most Similar Player: Jose Valentin Walt Weiss - Shortstop - Oakland 1987-92, Florida 1993, Colorado 1994-97, Atlanta 1998-2000 Gray Ink: Batting - 9 (1355) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 19.9 (683) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 29.0 (557) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: ROY, 1 All-Star selection. OPS+: 78 Most Similar Player: Ivan DeJesus John Wetteland - Closer - Los Angeles 1989-91, Montreal 1992-94, New York (AL) 1995-96, Texas 1997-2000 Black Ink: Pitching - 3 (520) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 33 (680) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 93.0 (102) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 World Series MVP, 1 Rolaids Relief Award, 3 All-Star selections, 1 time led league in saves. Career Rankings: 8th in saves. Most Similar Player: Robb Nen Mark Whiten - Right Fielder - Toronto 1990-91, Cleveland 1991-92 98-2000, St. Louis 1993-94, Boston 1995, Philadelphia 1995-96, Atlanta 1996, Seattle 1996, New York (AL) 1997 Gray Ink: Batting - 1 (2189) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 8.0 (1759) (Average HOFer ~ 50) OPS+: 102 Most Similar Player: Mike Davis Eligible in 2006? Albert Belle - Left Fielder - Cleveland 1989-96, Chicago (AL) 1997-98, Baltimore 1999-2000 Black Ink: Batting - 28 (62) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 137 (115) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 36.1 (176) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 134.5 (88) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 5 All-Star selections, 2 times led league in slugging, 1 time led league in OPS, 1 time led league in runs, 3 times led league in total bases, 1 time led league in doubles, 1 time led league in homeruns, 3 times led league in RBI, 1 time led league in OPS+. Career Rankings: 18th in slugging, 36th in OPS, 47th in homeruns, 59th in OPS+. OPS+: 143 Most Similar Player: Juan Gonzalez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
