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Damaramu

It seems everyone hates.....

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Ok since I just got back into comic books I've been looking around at various websites and all of the Spider Man sites call Maximum Carnage a "14-part crappy wankfest". And it seems a lot of people on the Spider-Man team hated the story arc.

Now this was one of my favorite story arc's(and games) when I was like 10 so I decided to go back and read it just now. So far I haven't found anything to terribley offensive about it except maybe the fact that EVERYONE shows up at one time or another. But other than that I thought it was mindless fun.

 

So what's the hate for?

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I think the bigget problem was that it was a bit pointless after it concluded. A major crossover about nothing.

 

I didn't think there was anything really wrong with the story, but it was a perfect example of the ridiculously long and tangled crossovers of the 90s that were just designed to sell more books.

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I think you are right Steviekick. There seemed to be no real mention of it afterwards and everytime I saw Carnage after this he seemed watered down and just didn't seem cool anymore.

 

I guess I foudn it hard to believe when I was a kid(and still do) that it took them so long to defeat him(14 parts) and every other time he appears he's easily dispatched in like 2-3 parts.

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Carnage is in general a shitty villain anyway.

 

"Well, Venom was a big hit.....so let's make an even meaner, CRAZIER version of Venom!"

 

Carnage is a character born of creative stagnation.

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Who's the 3rd symbiote? Never heard of it. I remember Seperation Anxiety with the million different symbiotes. And then the shitty story "Planet of the symbiotes".

I don't think Carnage is that shitty of a villain. I've always found him to be entertaining and I love the things he can do with his costume and the way it seems more alive than Venom's. However they wouldn't have had to create Carnage if they hadn't watered down Venom.

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Guest Prodigy

Well apparently, in the new mini-series called Venom vs Carnage, Carnage gives "birth" to a new symbiote called Toxin. Now, before you picture Carnage spreading his legs, symbiotes reproduce asexually, as Carnage picks a host for his baby. His host turns out to be some cop. I'm not totally sure if I'm correct, as I' haven't read it, but you can take a look at it here: http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/072804/ven1cvr.html.

 

Gotta say, the artwork is amazing.

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Well I certinally did & still do love the game. As for the storyline Im not so sure about due to the fact that I only have two issues from it, since I was on a little break from collecting comics at the time. The only thing I didnt like about it was all of the heros who showed up for it. I think they should of just stuck with Spider-Man, & Venom or maybe have one other person but I think Spidey & Venom alone would be best.

 

But what you guys are saying is true, if it took a 14 parter to beat carnage then, there should be a mention of it everytime Carnage shows up and he shouldnt be defeated so easily.

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Well apparently, in the new mini-series called Venom vs Carnage, Carnage gives "birth" to a new symbiote called Toxin. Now, before you picture Carnage spreading his legs, symbiotes reproduce asexually, as Carnage picks a host for his baby. His host turns out to be some cop. I'm not totally sure if I'm correct, as I' haven't read it, but you can take a look at it here: http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/072804/ven1cvr.html.

 

Gotta say, the artwork is amazing.

That art is just sick. Very impressive.

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Well I've went back and read the series and while still enjoyable I can see it's many(and i mean many) faults:

 

-it dragged way to long. The heroes just looked like fools. They outnumbered Carnage and his crew but everytime they fought Carnage got the upper hand and escaped.

 

-people just came out of the woodworks to help fight but they were marvel's B-list of superheroes with the exception of Captain America.

 

-the death toll got astronomical and it seemed that they destroyed and set fire to nearly every part of New York City. You're telling me with that many people dying and that much property damage that the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men wouldn't have run to the rescue? I mean they gave an excuse that most of them were off saving the world....but come on......all of them at once!?

 

-The dialogue from Carnage and his crew was just absurdly corny. All of the stuff about there "family" and going on during the fight about how they should've raised the kids better and then acting like there killing spree was some kind of a field trip complete with corny dialogue almost made me have to close the issues.

 

-there were no after-effects. The series ended and NYC magically had all of the people that lived there back and the property damage was magically fixed all in the blink of an eye.

 

-the way they defeated most of his crew in issue 13 drove me insane. A freaking good ray of light or something? Oh come on!

 

-i don't have part 14 so i have no clue how Carnage was finally beaten by Spider Man and Venom...maybe someone can shed some light on that.

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Guest SpiderFan

Venom, Carnage and Spidey have a big rumble, which ends when Venom tackles Carnage into a generator, causing an explosion. Carnage is taken away by the Avengers (freshly back from saving the world) and Venom escapes in the back of a truck. Black Cat asks Spidey is he thinks Venom is dead, and he says doubtful. As he walks past the graves of Norman and Harry Osborn, he thinks to himself that some monsters stay dead and buried, and can't haunt you unless you let them. Time has made that last panel kind of funny.

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Well apparently, in the new mini-series called Venom vs Carnage, Carnage gives "birth" to a new symbiote called Toxin. Now, before you picture Carnage spreading his legs, symbiotes reproduce asexually, as Carnage picks a host for his baby. His host turns out to be some cop. I'm not totally sure if I'm correct, as I' haven't read it, but you can take a look at it here: http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/072804/ven1cvr.html.

 

Gotta say, the artwork is amazing.

I've got the first issue, and besides the art there is nothing that grips me. From Spideys last encounter with venom I thought it was venom who had a child, when did this carnage birthgiving come about?

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Found another thing that drove me nuts about the story arc.

 

Spider Man goes from being a good natured hero to a HIPPY MORON. Seriously it seemed the writer's were like "We'll push Spider Man's good side to the max! He'll appear completely braindead!"

 

He spends every issue agonizing over how "there must be another way!" and so on meanwhile everything they throw at Carnage doesn't work and they just continue to get there ass beat. Meanwhile once they finally try to kill him(with firestar) it actually works! But Spider Man is like "NO! We can't kill! There's another way!" despite NOTHING ELSE WORKING! So Carnage once again gets back to full health and whips ass.

It was sad....

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I thought that a lot of the B-list heroes were appropriate, like the New Warriors, CLoak and Dagger, and Firestorm (although I would have loved if their other Amazing Friend Iceman stopped by).

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Yeah but where were the big time heroes? You're telling me FF, Avengers, and X-Men were all out of town at the time? That the rest of the heroes out there were to? B/c I seriously doubt that much more super villain activity was going on in NYC than this. There were way more super heroes than what appeared.

Yes the B-Listers were fine....but only one A-Lister(Captain America)?

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I still think it would of been best if it was just Spidey & Venom facing off against Carnage and his crew, with Spidey & Venom bearly able to get along themselves. But alas....Im not a comic writer so what do I know.....at least Im not one yet....

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Well what's even worse is that it's just:

Carnage, Shriek, Doppleganger, Demogoblin, and Carrion against 1,000 superheroes. Are we supposed to believe that they're that much powerful than the superheroes?

 

I mean Spider-Man, Venom, Cloak, Dagger, Black Cat, Morbius, Firestar, Iron Fist, Deathlok, Nightwatch, and Captain America can't get the job done without having to resort to the attack of the "positive rays"?

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I still have that red cartridge SNES game stashed somewhere. I was fun as hell to play but IIRC I bet it within a couple of weeks.

 

As for the story, I still read it from time to time (I have the TPB) and I have to admit time has not been kind to it. I really enjoyed it at first, but as someone else said before, the dialogue is extremely corny (specially regarding Carnage) and the story runs just too damn long. I wouldn't exactly call it a total crapfest but I wouldn't recommend it either. Maybe just read it once if you're not a fan.

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So what's the hate for?

It was an attempt to "darken" Spider-Man and this was a total slap in the face to fans. It looked like nothing more than another massive Marvel x-over in the Spidey books and the backlash over the ending with Carnage also played a role in the (at the time) fan backlash the story got.

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If anybody had taken Carnage seriously as a villain, nobody would be bitching about the vicious plotline decompression or Spidey's alarming drop in IQ. However, the fact that he's a Venom rip-off made the whole thing far too transparent of an attempt to ultra-push Carnage as the heir apparent for Venom (who was being transitioned into the happy mid-90's realm of Tweenerdom). Steviekick is dead on with his observation of the writers trying to dress up the crossover as an event with a huge number of characters.

 

I do kind of dig the team of B-list superstars, though, and the video game (complete with music from GREEN JELLO~?!) was good fun.

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So what's the hate for?

It was an attempt to "darken" Spider-Man and this was a total slap in the face to fans. It looked like nothing more than another massive Marvel x-over in the Spidey books and the backlash over the ending with Carnage also played a role in the (at the time) fan backlash the story got.

Yeah they tried to darken the story lines but like i said.......they turned Spidey from a good natured hero to a braindead boy scout.

 

 

And I believe the name of the band was Green Jelly.

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And I believe the name of the band was Green Jelly.

Post-lawsuit, yeah. But, when they did Maximum Carnage, I believe they still had the "offensive" Jello name.

No it's Green Jelly on the game. I just popped the cartridge in and it said Green Jelly on the loading screen......

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