Mike cammeron and the seattle mariners

[Guest Some Guy]

LUNATIC

Of course, arguments like this are why baseball kicks SO MUCH ASS.

I couldn't agree more with that statement or with your post.  

 

A good example of bad relief pitching effecting good starting pitching to skew al's stat is Clemens and Heathcliff Slocumb in 1996.  Clemens had a good ERA and yet a poor record because Slocumb the closer and the rest of the Bullpen kept blowing games for him.  As a result we in Boston concluded by looking at Clemen's win/loss record and concluded that he sucked.  Three Cy Young awards and 2 WS rings later we have quite a bit of egg on our faces.

[Guest alkeiper]

-Yeah, the stat thing was skewed towards the hitters.  I really should've put relievers in the equation.  The idea I'm putting forth though, is that its best to have a balanced team.  Like the Mariners for example....take the money you aren't giving the superstars, and fill in the holes.  The Mariners are so good because they have almost no weeknesses.  Good rotation, good bullpen, good lineup, good bench, even good prospects.  Now if only they hadn't made that Slocumb trade.

 

-Cameron's 4 HR game has value as a novelty mostly, but when you think about it, what good is a perfect game?  It's only one win, and really no more valuable than any old shutout, but its special nonetheless.  And that's another great thing about baseball.  Who knows, on some random night you can go to a perfect game and see a Glen Barker pitch a perfect game, or mark Whiten or Mike Cameron hit 4 HRs.

 

-When I look at the league, I look at AL, NL.  With the varience in rules, and the fact that they haven't played each other yet, there's really no benefit in mixing the leagues, at least yet.

 

-When I say pitching, I mean runs allowed.  A POOR defensive team will allow a large amount of unearned runs, skewing the ERA numbers.  Besides, runs are the point of the game.

 

-Look at On Base Percentage instead of batting average.  You'll get a better idea of a team's hitting success that way.  Look at it as an out percentage.  The higher the OBP, the less often they create outs.

 

pitchers don't have the luxury of facing second-string lineups every night.

 

Sure they do!  They're called the "Devil Rays."

 

You can have the greatest #3 hitter in the game, but if there's nobody batting fourth, nobody's going to pitch to him.  

 

That's fine with me.  Give me an automatic baserunner and as a manager, I'll be happy.

 

As a result we in Boston concluded by looking at Clemen's win/loss record and concluded that he sucked.

 

Most of why the Red Sox didn't sign Clemens is that he was turning 34 and 9 times ou of ten pitchers get worse at that age rather than better.  Looking at Clemen's '96 stats, he had an abnormally high walk rate, but nothing outside the W-L record to indicate bad pitching.  Besides, if you're a scout/gm, you don't rate pitchers solely on W-L records.  There's too many variables that skewer the stat.

[Guest Some Guy]

The fans in Boston have a tenency to greatly effect what the team does.  We have the highest rated sports radio station in the country and very outspoken fans.  The team at least used to cow tow to popular demand, take a look at Manny's contract as evidence of somehting that came about because of huge popular support but that might not have been the best Baseball decision.