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Guest Coffey

"Let's talk WWE titles"

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Guest Coffey

Alright, first off, think to yourself "is he/she/they a good champion?" for each belt in WWE. Triple H with the World Title, Chris Benoit with the Raw Tag Team Titles, Trish Stratus with the Women's title, JBL with the WWE Title, etc.

 

Does WWE have any good champions? Anyone that we can get behind? Anyone that we can love to hate?

 

Personally, I think that Triple H makes a good heel champion, as does Bradshaw. The problem is, no one seems to care about them because the rest of the card is so lackluster. Not only the rest of the card, but their closest challengers...and even themselves. The tag scene (on both shows) is abyssmal. Trish's biggest threat right now seems to be Stacy Kiebler or Nidia. What's wrong with that picture? Cruiserweight title? Ugh. It's like the title defenses for that belt are just PPV filler. Hell, I don't even know who the current U.S. champion is! (Granted, I don't get Smackdown locally).

 

So, the point of the thread is to ask this question: Do you think that a big part of the reason why WWE is currently so underwelming is because of whom the champions are?

 

If we could switch it up, would there even be a women's division? Would each show have a World Champion and Tag Team champions? How about the second tier titles? I remember when the IC division was one of my favorite things about wrestling. Nowadays it seems like if you have that title you're failure because you don't have the "real" belt. The women's belt is currently just a trinket. The tag team titles don't mean anything because no one wants them. Hell, even the top divisions are boring. Does it matter if someone loses a belt or not?

 

Shelton Benjamin just won the Intercontinental Title at Taboo Tuesday...and it didn't even matter. You'd think it would've had at least SOME impact, but instead...now it just isn't carried by Jericho anymore. No one seems to hammer the point home that the belts matter. At least when Randy Orton was IC champion, he tried to make it seem like the belt mattered. At least he tried.

 

A lot of times, I hear people talk about having wrestling tournaments. Usually it's when talking about a title. My question is, what's the point? How would that be beneficial? Just so that you can actually see some wrestling? I think a tournament for a belt, initially could would, but it usually fails. Instead of having a tournament for a belt, ranking should determine the outcome. A battle royal isn't going to get anything done...and the best man (or woman) should be the one with the belt. I could see a tournament that was designed to show whom the top three contenders were...but then they'd have to compete to crown a first champion. It's the only way that makes sense to me. It'd have to be round robin style too...otherwise, a bad bracket pairing or whatever could matter too much. Someone could say that they "had an easy bracket" or whatever. Ya know?

 

I don't know where I'm going with this. I wanted to start a discussion on the current state of the WWE titles and how it relates to and reflects the product. Do the belts matter anymore or are they a lost tradition? Is the brand split to blame?

 

The prestige is gone. No one seems to care about being a champion anymore. We know that Randy Orton wants the World Title, but we don't really know why. Just because Triple H "stole" it from him? So he can prove that he does belong at that level? Things just aren't really explained like they should be.

 

I read someone talk about how they liked how the Raw World Title contention seemed right now. There are people like Edge and Orton lurking with possibly an HBK on the horizon when coming back from injury. Well, what about the other people? Why doesn't Batista want a shot? Shouldn't he want to prove himself by now? Ric Flair got a shot at it when Triple H had it. How about Chris Jericho? He was just the IC champion, so doesn't that at least make him a threat? Kanes out with "injury" so shouldn't Snitski...you know...have a goal?

 

It's like everyone is lost. No direction. No explanation of why they do what they do or what they aspire to do. Shouldn't ALL wrestlers want gold? It just seems so clusterfucked right now.

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Is the brand split to blame?

 

I don't think so. They nearly killed off the tag division right off the bat however by splitting up teams and the like. But that's beating a dead horse, so I'll move on.

 

I do agree with you on the point of the titles having lost their prestige. I attribute this to 2 things (namely focusing on the world titles):

 

1) A champion usually dealing with only 1 guy or 2 guys each month or so is kinda weak to me. This may sound kinda dumb, but I just think having more guys gunning for a champion at any given time makes the belt look more important since EVERYONE wants to be a champion.

 

2) The championships losing importance due to "other issues" during a title feud. Sometimes this works (Flair/Savage in '92), but most of the time I don't really care for them. I mean, we had HHH falsely accusing Kane of murder and rape, and JBL getting a WWE title shot by kicking Mexicans out of the country. I might be sounding too old fashioned, but I think a feud TO BE A CHAMPION should be good enough.

 

Sermon over.

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Guest Rrrsh

The Best Champions right now are the secondary one, Benjerman and Carlito.

 

HHH is very stale to the fans and really hasn't captured the fan imagination in anything for a long time.

 

JBL was rushed into his spot and was never developed, therfor the fans really don't care as much as they would. Plus he never looks strong, and that dosn't help if you havn't been built properly.

 

The Tag divisions are jokes.

 

Kidman should be the Cruiser champ. He is the only cruiser fans really care about right now.

 

Trish has no compatition.

 

 

Shelton has a Sting-esque charisma the fans really dig. Plus they really got behind him the day before Taboo Tueday. He still is remembered for beating HHH and has a natural charisma about him

 

Carlito beat Cena, stole his chian and will continue to be a reminder as the man who disrespected their hero. And they are looking foawrd to when Cena can kick his ass. Plus he is also has a very natural charisma that the fans feed of of.

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Is the brand split to blame?

Yes it is, the expansion has created a whole new set of problems. First of all it was suppose to build up new stars, this did not happen, what resulted was a selected few became over exposed. The midcard is dead, the tag division is dead, the womens division is as expected nothing but soft porn. The young new talent that were pushed to become the future stars are all missing the "It" factor whether it be at interviews or in ring skills. Few if any of the new wrestlers are prepared for the spotlight of being a Sports Entertainer. For whatever reason the people who train the young talent think that a catch phrase and an arrogant pose can get wrestlers over.

 

Right now the roster on the monday night show is watered down with comedy acts, whether it is intentional or not, and non wrestling personel and highlights of other shows wasting time. When the opening acts and midcard could be built up to something worth watching. The champions get the same old tired feuds which have been done a million of times or has been mishandled by not giving a proper finish to the feud or just forgotten all together.

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What happened, exactly, to the women's division? I don't get Raw since I don't have cable, but I recall at Wrestlemania 19 a pretty strong match with a lot of good wreslting, albeit it seems none of them know how to throw a punch. Now they have a Gail Kim who, by all acounts, has improved by going to this submission style, so what, exactly, is wrong? I've heard about Victoria's gimmick change and all, but her wrestling skill should still be there. I think the biggest problem facing WWE right now is sheer stagnation. The same people are doing the same things(other than Kidman and London). Carlito is a decent wrestler and he plays his gimmick well enough, but it's boring, one dimensional, and a tired cliche. Heidenreich just sucks, and the fact that he's made out to be really tough is kinda hard to keep when he hardly wrestles(beside the fact that he's dressed in Goldberg's gear painted red) I haven't seen Snitsky, so I can't comment on him. I think the main problem is that the talent in the ring just isn't there in so many matches that we can deal with the stories. Bradshaw is atrocious, and he's so protected. Taker has a cool entrance, a few spots, and not much else. Rey doesn't seem to want to take the risks he did that made my jaw drop when he debuted. There's just so much deadweight and silliness and the whole thing is so bogged down, and that's why the belts mean nothing. People SHOULD be able to beat JBL. There's no accomplishment there. It's just so screwed up. WWE needs Rocky or heck, Tommy Dreamer, or SOMEBODY to shake things up.

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Guest Rrrsh

The woman are all boring(other than Trish0 and all suck in the ring (other than Trish.

 

 

That sums it up pretty much.

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What happened, exactly, to the women's division?

The Diva Search and Stacy winning matches with the rollup happened. Does anybody know if the Molly hair angle ever got a finish, was there any revenge taken on Victoria at all?

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Guest Stranger

I definately agree with this. One of the problems I can see is that the storylines are taking over so much of the showtime, and yet don't seem to be DOING anything. The belts are becoming a joke, although some of the questions you ask have been answered kinda by implication.

 

Randy Orton is after the belt simply because that is what he wants (as you say, shouldn't it be what they ALL want?). Edge wants the belt too, but this is mixed up with the whole storyline of Edge taking down the members of Evolution one by one and Triple H being the only member Edge hasn't beat yet. The rest of the major superstars don't seem to be persuing it as they are taking a "been there, done that" approach (this could explain Benoit and Flair at least). Batista can't really go for it due to his loyalty to Triple H. Jericho seems happy fighting for the I/C belt (you need SOMEONE fighting for it right? :P )

 

Who have I left out of the RAW roster?

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They could send Batista to go after Shelton Benjamin to get revenge for all the times Shelton beat HHH on tv. Now Batista could be the monster on a mission to destroy Shelton.......winning the belt could be considered a bonus but should not be the focus since Batista's position in Evolution is the enforcer. They could have Batista do a few run-ins during Shelton's matches in classic Sid fashion, you know powerbomb everybody then walk off. This could be used to build up for the Survivor Series and a simple way to get Maven out of the Wargames match. After say 2 or so run ins by Batista, Maven would try to make the save but falls victem to the Demon Bomb thru a table outside the ring Mike Awesome style. So Maven is sent to the medical facility for a few weeks and Shelton gets elevated to the War Games match at Survivor Series.

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Guest Tjhe CyNick

I dont think the brand split is to blame, they had the brand split during the Rock-Brock build, and that did really good numbers at Summerslam 02.

 

The problem started when they split the titles (thank-you HHH).

 

From that point on we've had 2 World Champions, and while one has seemed more valuable then the other from time to time (SD title in 02/03, RAW title for 04), in my eyes neither title has ever seemed as important as when there was only one world champion.

 

Personally with nothing special on the horizon for Mania this year and with buyrates heading south at a rapid rate, I really think they should unify the titles. By doing that they can create one single World Champion, which would make it clear who is the top guy. One of the problems now is that when a guy reaches the World Title level for his brand it seems about half as special because the other brand is promoting another guy as champion. So its like we've had co-champions for 2+ years now.

 

Another benefit is that it creates more fresh match-ups. Lets say Kurt Angle were to become the Unified champion coming out of Mania. Well you would have him on RAW for April to promote a match with say HBK at Backlash. In the meantime on SD they are building up storylines for someone to face the champ when he comes back in May. Lets say that guy is Eddie, so in May you have Eddie vs Kurt. Then say Eddie wins, now he can go to RAW for Bad Blood and face HHH, and so on and so on. When a guy loses the title, he goes back to the brand he was originally on (ie Kurt goes back to SD).

 

Yet another benefit is that the brand who doesn't have the champion for that month would look to the secondary champions in order to carry the shows. Sticking with SD this would make the US and CW titles even more important. Because the guys who hold those titles would have to step up and headline shows for the month while the champ is gone.

 

I think I would also take this step with the Tag Titles, mainly because neither side really has enough tag teams to support a legitimate tag division.

 

The final benefit is that being the champion seems even more important. Because the world champ gets to be on 12 PPVs instead of the (maximum) 8 other guys can be on, you can play off that being Worlds Champion means more money (which would be a shoot), and people can understand why these guys are rolling around in their underwear trying to become World Champion. The other championships would carry more value because now becomign IC champ on RAW means you will be put in a headlining position for 4-6 months of the year. This would possibly return the IC title to a level where it was in the mid 80s where it wasn't just passed around like a VD in a College Dorm, it would actually be of great importance to the promotion. Ditto for the US and CW titles.

 

I guess the only real negative is that HHH would be invading both shows, but at this point you kinda have to accept his presence as a given.

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Guest Stranger

The term "good champion" can be terribly overused in the WWE and wrestling industry. So often, we refer to someone as being a good champion, if they have only defeated one challenger or have added no credibility to the title. Take the Raw Tag Team Titles for example. Sure, the names Chris Benoit and Edge may be two big and impressive names, but they aren't exactly good champions with no chemistry together or if they don't even bloody well defend the titles together.

 

Chris Benoit and Edge may be two of the great wrestlers on WWE Raw, or within the company itself, but teaming together does not automatically make them a good champion. When we see the results and their names in gold, we may think "What a tag team". But, really they aren't a good tag team at all. Especially, at the moment, given Edge and the way he is. The only good thing going for the Raw Tag Titles is the fact that a feud is being held between the two champs. And that's not exactly adding a whole lot of credibility to the titles??

 

A good champion is someone IMO who can wrestle, use the mic and be an all-round wrestler able to give some popularity and most important credibility, to the title itself. Chris Benoit was in a way a good champion, but in a way, he was not. Chris Benoit actually didn't really give anymore credibility to the title as say ... Shawn Michaels would have. Let's face it ... Chris Benoit is one hell of a wrestler in the ring but when it comes to on the mic, he plainly sucks. He gave a little bit more credibility to the title but wouldn't you expect more from such a great wrestler. It can be a dilemma in deciding who and what makes a good champion. As ChaosLady said, charisma is a very important element and it helps if you're like John Cena and can talk trash on the mic and still get away with it even with the lack of in-ring talent.

 

But now, let's look at the current WWE product and their champions ...

 

Triple H - As much as we hate to say and admit, Triple H is a good champion. In the ring, he olds his own and is actually quite a good wrestler. Apart from hogging the main event and never letting anyone really have a go in there, he gets enough heel heat from the fans and does his best. His charisma and his mic skills are pretty awesome and doesn't mind being embarrassed in front of thousands. The ability to draw so damn much heel heat from the crowd shows how good he is, both on the mic and in the ring.

 

JBL - He came to the main event in about April/May and since then, has actually been a fresh face to see holding the big belt. Now, JBL isn't the best in the ring but he can cover for it on the mic. The thing that holds him down as I might have said, is his wrestling skills. he has improved dramatically over the past few months, but IMO, is not in the top 5 wrestlers on Smackdown! The WWE Champion should be and nopt given the belt for the sake of it. He has got charisma and like Triple H, gets some good heat. I'd say, for various reasons, he is not a "good champion" and in fact losing the belt soon would actually help him a bit.

 

Carlito Carribean Cool - A fresh face within the WWE and someone to watch out for in the future. CCC possesses a fresh gimmick and with his apples, has a sense of individuality surrounding him. He is pretty mediocre on the ming and a better wrestler than John Cena was, but is not the greatest. After only bein gin the WWE only for several weeks now, I can't really pass judgement on him and really, can't call him a good champion. Now, saying this does not mean he never will be. CCC sound slike a very promising talent but at the moment, doesn't possess the qualities which make him a good champion.

 

Shelton Benjamin - A fresh face and one of our only face champions at the moment (along with the sole Chris Benoit). He has just been given the title and had it for a week now. He is a pretty good wrestler and has proved he can hold his own with HHH. Now, him on the mic isn't really too common but, he can do something good when he wants. Since he's only had the title for only near two weeks now and only made one title defence, I think it is also too early to pass judgement on him, but I see that he can be a good champion if he can get more face pops and charisma.

 

Kenzo/Rene - Now, I was more than shocked to see them win the Tag Team Titles, but on their first night together was even more weird. They've had the belts for quite a while and they seem to be making a reasonable standard champions. As their gimmick suggests, they are either Anti-American or love America, but still, they work together well. They haven't really done anything special in the ring yet or even on the mic, but have made a quite good defence against RVD/Rey at No Mercy last month. It'll be interesting to see where they go because IMO, don't have much charisma at alll, or if they did, I just can't see it working.

 

Edge/Benoit - See above. For a quick rundown, I'll just say that they aren't really good champions and the only credibility they are adding to the Raw Tag Team Division is the feud amongst themselves. There isn't much of the Raw Tag Division left anyway, so giving them the titles hasn't really helped the division. Not good champions!

 

Spike Dudley - One of the more interesting ones. IMO, he has not and is not a good champion. In my mind, he is actually a pretty damn poor champion and adds no credibility to the title. It was shit when he won it and it's shit now that he has won it. He has made defences against two or three people and every time, he needs the Dudley Boyz to come out and help him win. Without them, he'd be useless. There are other cruiserweights who really deserve the title ahead of hi m. When someone like Rey Mysterio had the belt, it was pretty exciting but now, I dislike the Cruiserweight Division. And it's all because of one man- Spike Dudley. He is one of, if not the worst champion, the WWE has going around at the moment. The amount of work he does is a shambles and he is always doing everything else, other than defending the belt.

 

Trish - Now, I wrote a thread on the Women's Title the other day. IMO, Trish Stratus is actually a good champion, but unfortunately, the division isn't good. It gets no time and lacks credibility pretty much all-round. To make fans happy, the company puts on the same 3-on-3 match every week featuring all the divas. It isn't fair because Trish is a good champion and a good wrestler. If it was given more time, then the story would be different. So, in the end, while the title lacks credibility, Trish is practically the only one keeping it from going under.

 

There you go with all my picks - what do you think about my ideas and thoughts???

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What happened, exactly, to the women's division? I don't get Raw since I don't have cable, but I recall at Wrestlemania 19 a pretty strong match with a lot of good wreslting, albeit it seems none of them know how to throw a punch. Now they have a Gail Kim who, by all acounts, has improved by going to this submission style, so what, exactly, is wrong? I've heard about Victoria's gimmick change and all, but her wrestling skill should still be there. I think the biggest problem facing WWE right now is sheer stagnation. The same people are doing the same things(other than Kidman and London). Carlito is a decent wrestler and he plays his gimmick well enough, but it's boring, one dimensional, and a tired cliche. Heidenreich just sucks, and the fact that he's made out to be really tough is kinda hard to keep when he hardly wrestles(beside the fact that he's dressed in Goldberg's gear painted red) I haven't seen Snitsky, so I can't comment on him. I think the main problem is that the talent in the ring just isn't there in so many matches that we can deal with the stories. Bradshaw is atrocious, and he's so protected. Taker has a cool entrance, a few spots, and not much else. Rey doesn't seem to want to take the risks he did that made my jaw drop when he debuted. There's just so much deadweight and silliness and the whole thing is so bogged down, and that's why the belts mean nothing. People SHOULD be able to beat JBL. There's no accomplishment there. It's just so screwed up. WWE needs Rocky or heck, Tommy Dreamer, or SOMEBODY to shake things up.

Taking Heidenreich as a threat to the Undertaker is something I can't take seriously.

 

Why? Pop in the DVD of Armageddon 2003 and watch him job to Rico.

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Is it wrong that I don't remember Heidenreich being on Raw at all last year? I wasn't watching Raw that much, but I should remember something about him at least. I know he had the "little Johnny" angle earlier this year, but I thought that was his debut.

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Guest Anglesault
Is it wrong that I don't remember Heidenreich being on Raw at all last year? I wasn't watching Raw that much, but I should remember something about him at least. I know he had the "little Johnny" angle earlier this year, but I thought that was his debut.

He debuted around late fall of last year with Hurricane agains La Resistance. The best way to track him back then was by his finishers. He had a Rock Bottom type move that he used agains the Frenchmen, and then promptly changed his finisher every week, almost killing Stevie Richards every time. It was kind of funny after a while, because every week, poor Stevie would get it either on Raw or Heat, and no matter how many times he tried to change the finisher, he still fucked up.

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For me, the problem started when they split the titles between (the ones Bradshaw and HHH hold now). It bothers me that there is no #1 belt in the entire company. I think they should have a Smackdown champ belt, a Raw champ belt, and a rotating WWE champ belt. It would help with the Raw/Smackdown rivalry and really make the person holding it seem like someone special.

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Good writeup, Coffey.

 

I think you make some really good points. Think about how the WWE deals with their belts. Booker and Cena fought a best of 5 for the US title. That happened from Summerslam to No Mercy and no one else got a title shot during that time. Now I can understand they wanted to book that...but why not have a character at least bitch and moan about not being able to get a US title shot? Maybe have someone try to interfere in a match so it ended in three matches and he could get his title shot faster? Make it look like people actually CARE about the belt.

 

Titles get over when held by a good champion and when chased by lots of good challengers who make it very clear that's what they want. Now while the tag, women's, cruiser belts, etc are all jokes, the WWE, World, US, and IC belts should all be seen as legitimate. The best thing going right now is the world title because of Edge's desire to get the title shot at Taboo Tuesday and that whole deal. It showed us how much he wanted the belt. But the WWE title on Smackdown? JBL feuds with one person at a time, and during that time no one else even CHASES the title at all. I guess that goes into characters not being realistic, and that's a whole other issue...

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It's like everyone is lost. No direction. No explanation of why they do what they do or what they aspire to do. Shouldn't ALL wrestlers want gold? It just seems so clusterfucked right now.

Bingo. It comes down to the writers not writing characters in a realistic way. Once again...this all goes back to bad booking.

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Titles get over when held by a good champion and when chased by lots of good challengers who make it very clear that's what they want

The chase is the most important part of the title reign, without it you get lame duck champions such as La Resistence who basically have not done anything with the long term tag title reign. Most of the challengers have been mix matched teams who were form for the sole of spliting up for singles feuds. Who is chasing Shelton Benjamin for the IC belt besides Jericho?

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Guest Tjhe CyNick

I dont get what makes HHH a good champion. He's been the central figure in the WWE since the Summer of 2002, and every year every aspect of the busness has continued to get worse and worse. IF it was any other person he would have shot down to the mid card years ago. To me, just because he's been on top for so long and just because he's somewhat decent in the ring (there are others who are significantly better) people will say he's a good champ. I just dont see how a guy who has done so much poor business can be called a "good champion".

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Who is chasing Shelton Benjamin for the IC belt besides Jericho?

Judging from RAW... Christian

 

And they will problay have a Batista Vs. Benjamin IC title fued.

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Guest frowned

the only people who've thus far appealed to my housemates when they've been forced to watch it with me have been Shelton Benjamin and Carlito Cool. I don't really understand the Benjamin love, I guess that it's down to the look and ability because they've only been following for a couple of weeks. Carlito is down to his gimmick and the apple thing, they REALLY appreciate that.

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So, the point of the thread is to ask this question: Do you think that a big part of the reason why WWE is currently so underwelming is because of whom the champions are?

 

I think what makes it underwhelming is because of who the challengers are. It's also underwhelming because the feuds are so cliched and predictable. We've seen this dance way too many times. They need to change the steps.

 

If we could switch it up, would there even be a women's division? Would each show have a World Champion and Tag Team champions? How about the second tier titles? I remember when the IC division was one of my favorite things about wrestling. Nowadays it seems like if you have that title you're failure because you don't have the "real" belt. The women's belt is currently just a trinket. The tag team titles don't mean anything because no one wants them. Hell, even the top divisions are boring. Does it matter if someone loses a belt or not?

 

That's why I suggest using a Weight System. Heavyweight, Middleweight, Light/Cruiserweight. Then there's a reason why each guy is challenging for each title - not because they "suck", but because that's their weight. Since the WWE is worked, they can work weight as well. Middleweights can move up to heavyweight, heavyweights can move down to middleweight. Natural storylines can be associated with it.

 

Shelton Benjamin just won the Intercontinental Title at Taboo Tuesday...and it didn't even matter. You'd think it would've had at least SOME impact, but instead...now it just isn't carried by Jericho anymore. No one seems to hammer the point home that the belts matter. At least when Randy Orton was IC champion, he tried to make it seem like the belt mattered. At least he tried.

 

What's funny about the Jericho thing is that JERICHO didn't even seem to care. He moved UP a spot on the roster after the loss, and is now involved with Evolution while Benjamin gets Jerichos sloppy seconds w/ Christian. There is no benefit to winning the titles, there is no damage when you lose it. So why would anyone care? When Randy lost the IC title, the next PPV he had the World Title. Edge, the guy who beat Randy for the title, was in the middle of the card while Randy was in the main event.

 

A lot of times, I hear people talk about having wrestling tournaments. Usually it's when talking about a title. My question is, what's the point? How would that be beneficial?

 

Tournaments provide fuel for storylines. There are so many ways you can start angles and provide character development through them. Tournaments happen in sports every single year - The Playoffs. These are the highest drawing games of each individual sport for a reason.

 

Just so that you can actually see some wrestling? I think a tournament for a belt, initially could would, but it usually fails. Instead of having a tournament for a belt, ranking should determine the outcome.

 

I was initially for bracketing, but under the current system it wouldn't work. It creates a pecking order and the WWE would never be able to sustain it. It would goof with the flow of the show where JR and King would be like "Ok! Time to look at the top 5!". The Round Robin is a good idea.

 

I don't know where I'm going with this. I wanted to start a discussion on the current state of the WWE titles and how it relates to and reflects the product. Do the belts matter anymore or are they a lost tradition? Is the brand split to blame?

 

They don't matter to me, they don't matter to the wrestlers. Nothing happens when someone wins it.

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It the weightclass idea is going to work then the split has to end. But then again the whole concept of the cruiserweight division has not been considered a success due to the fact that the international stars have not been given a chance to exibit their skills to the fullest. And the squash matches never helped the credibility of the cruiserweights when they are in matches against giants who only know how to powerbomb and kick.

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Didn't the NWA have a ranking system? They seemed to mention that in the Flair/Funk feud on the Flair set, where Flair said tat he had to wretsle the top ten contenders for the belt and Terry wasn't on the list because he apparently had been out doing a movie or something before Funk piledrove him onto a table(which did not break, that had to be unpleasant)? I'd be hip for the weight class idea, being a MMA mark and all, but I think the main problem is we need better wrestling and some better storylines.

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Didn't the NWA have a ranking system?

They used one for years, Lex Luger was Number 1 most of the time because of his US Title.

 

Edit: Don't actually remember to many feuds based on the top 10 besides Luger/Steamboat.

Edited by deancoles411

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Guest Coffey

I like the idea of using a weight system, but could WWE pull it off? Afterall, it would have to make each weight division look competitive...and if they can't do that now with their titles, why would they be able to do it with weight divisions?

 

In theory, however, it sounds really good. It'd give everyone something to do. Something to aspire too. No longer would it matter if Rey Mysterio could beat The Undertaker...because they would both be aspiring for different things...while still being competitive.

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Guest PlatinumBoy
I like the idea of using a weight system, but could WWE pull it off? Afterall, it would have to make each weight division look competitive...and if they can't do that now with their titles, why would they be able to do it with weight divisions?

 

In theory, however, it sounds really good. It'd give everyone something to do. Something to aspire too. No longer would it matter if Rey Mysterio could beat The Undertaker...because they would both be aspiring for different things...while still being competitive.

This is just an idea, but with a weight class you could still have big and little guys wrestle by making different tag weights--like 400 to 600 pounds and then 600 and up. Or maybe 500 and below for one division, 500 and above for another. So someone really big might pick Rey and make the weight for a tag division and wrestle two decent sized guys like the Dudlyz.

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I like the idea of using a weight system, but could WWE pull it off? Afterall, it would have to make each weight division look competitive...and if they can't do that now with their titles, why would they be able to do it with weight divisions

 

The reason they can't do that with the titles now is that the title scene doesn't have any structure. The weight system gives it an inherant structure. What makes someone a contender for the IC title and not the World Title? Or vice versa? Nothing. So you have guys challenge for both titles in the span of a month. So you have the IC title competing with the World Title and there's no way the IC title will win that fight.

 

The Tag Division would be Openweight. And there still could be special openweight matches. But they should limit those. There is the problem - the WWE could lose focus and do a whole bunch of open weight matches and be in the same situation it is in today.

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The Best Champions right now are the secondary one, Benjerman and Carlito.

Yes. That's because they are still flying under the radar. By that I mean they haven't had the entire show focused on them (opening the show with 20 minute promos etc.). This became famous during the Attitude era and is why the product is stale, to me at least. When they put the pedal to the metal, they run out of gas faster.

 

This probably isn't coming across as well as it should, but that is my opinion of how things are.

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Guest DeathBecomesYou
What happened, exactly, to the women's division?

The Diva Search and Stacy winning matches with the rollup happened. Does anybody know if the Molly hair angle ever got a finish, was there any revenge taken on Victoria at all?

The only real semblance of revenge Molly got on Victoria was from the Raw where she snapped and choked Victoria out, otherwise Molly basically jobbed in every single match and got nothing.

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