Oh Please let this guy run the DNC

[Guest MikeSC]

Howard Dean Disputes Media View that 'Values' Swung Election

 

By Charles Geraci

 

Published: November 12, 2004 2:05 PM ET

 

EVANSTON, Ill. Former presidential candidate Howard Dean wants the media to stuff its new conventional wisdom that "values" or "morals" drove the result of this month's election.

 

Speaking Thursday night to 500 Northwestern University students, many of them journalism majors, Dean noted there was little "statistical difference" between the percentage of voters who deemed moral values the top issue (22 %) and those who ranked as their top concern Iraq or the economy/jobs, according to exit poll data.

 

"How can you get to the conclusion morality was the most important issue in this campaign?" Dean asked. "It's beyond me, but that was what the media was riding. They're entitled to their opinion. It doesn't happen to be the opinion of thoughtful people who are looking."

 

Though Dean, a Democrat, complimented President Bush, saying he "ran a great campaign" and was "very disciplined," he compared the president to former Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic, at least in one regard.

 

"The truth is the president of the United States used the same device that Slobodan Milosevic used in Serbia. When you appeal to homophobia, when you appeal to sexism, when you appeal to racism, that is extraordinarily damaging to the country," Dean charged. "I know George Bush. I served with him for six years [as a fellow governor]. He's not a homophobe. He's not a racist. He's not a sexist. In some ways, what he did was worse … because he knew better."

 

Dean also criticized Bush for the ballot initiatives in 11 states calling for gay marriage to be outlawed, saying this "had only one effect, which is to appeal to homophobia and fear and gay-baiting in order to win a presidential election."

 

And he took a shot at Rev. Jerry Falwell.: "Most Americans are decent people -- not all. I mean, there are those hate-mongers. I wouldn't call Jerry Falwell a decent person."

 

Scolding Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia for, in Dean's opinion, humiliating people from the bench, he said, "Justice Scalia ought not to be on the bench. Never pick anyone who's sarcastic and mean-spirited."

 

But Dean's lighter side also was apparent throughout the evening. When a student asked what, if anything, Democrats could do regarding Bush's Supreme Court nominations, Dean joked: "We can do a lot. But senators have to have some chutzpah, as they say in Yiddish, or cajones, as they say in Spanish."

 

The former Vermont governor also responded to an ad by the conservative Club for Growth in which two ordinary Americans said Dean should take his "tax-hiking, government-expanding, latte-drinking, sushi-eating, Volvo-driving, New York Times-reading, body-piercing, Hollywood-loving, left wing freak show back to Vermont where it belongs."

 

He explained, "I don't drink coffee. I have three cars -- all of which are American. No part of me is pierced that I'm willing to discuss publicly. And if you want to see a freak show, go look at the people who wrote that ad -- you won't believe it."

 

Dean talked about his vision for the Democratic Party, saying, "We need to stand up for what we believe in ... so that the people who vote against their economic interests will now consider voting for Democrats."

 

Complimenting students for "voting in significantly higher numbers," Dean appealed for them to "run for office" quite a few times. Echoing the now infamous "Dean scream," he shouted, "You need to run for office -- not just in Illinois and Ohio and South Carolina! ... You need to run for office in Mississippi, and Alabama, and Idaho, and Texas, and...."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/ne...t_id=1000718777

Yeah, Bush appealed to sexism, racism, etc --- just like Milosevic? Gold, Deano, just gold.

-=Mike

[Guest Loss]

I detect sarcasm in the title of this thread, Mike.

[Guest MikeSC]

I detect sarcasm in the title of this thread, Mike.

Oh, I want to see the DNC die and be replaced by a competent party --- so I actually DO want to see Dean in charge.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

It takes skill to find someone just as bad or worse than McAwful as the head of the DNC.

 

Hopefully someone wakes up and realizes what a mistake this would be. I find it highly doubtful since they won't even listen to Clinton.

[Guest Loss]

I agree with every word he said. However, I know that mainstream America is not in the same stratosphere as Howard Dean at this point, so tactically, I don't know how wise his words were.

[Guest MikeSC]

I agree with every word he said. However, I know that mainstream America is not in the same stratosphere as Howard Dean at this point, so tactically, I don't know how wise his words were.

Care to reveal when Bush played to racism or sexism? He didn't play to homophobia, but I know you'll say his disdain for gay marriage is close enough --- so the other two.

-=Mike

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

The gay marriage thing has already been shown to be totaly bs if you look at the voting numbers.

[Guest MikeSC]

The gay marriage thing has already been shown to be totaly bs if you look at the voting numbers.

It's in the political mythology, like Ashcroft and the breast, Bush's phone calls about McCain in SC, etc.

-=Mike

[Guest Loss]

Well, anti-abortionism is sexism because it's a women's rights issue, but I know you disagree, and I'm sure you'll toss that one out. For racism, look no further than the 2000 election and the shutting out of blacks from voting booths, another point which I've seen you attempt to refute.

[Guest MikeSC]

Well, anti-abortionism is sexism because it's a women's rights issue, but I know you disagree, and I'm sure you'll toss that one out.

Um, what? Opposing abortion is sexist? There are plenty of women who oppose abortion. That is a major stretch.

For racism, look no further than the 2000 election and the shutting out of blacks from voting booths, another point which I've seen you attempt to refute.

I refute it because zero evidence exists that it happened.

-=Mike

[Guest Loss]

I'd imagine that most women who are opposed to abortion also believe that a woman's place is in the home and that she should always obey her husband. The biggest enemy of the women's rights movement has been women. Any feminist would agree with that.

 

Abortion is about a woman's right to choose what she does with her own body. That's why feminists fight so strongly to preserve the right.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Way to sterotype there.

[Guest Loss]

Way to sterotype there.

If the shoe fits ...

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Yes and how mad would you get if someone attempted to sterotype gay people in another argument?

[Guest MikeSC]

I'd imagine that most women who are opposed to abortion also believe that a woman's place is in the home and that she should always obey her husband. The biggest enemy of the women's rights movement has been women. Any feminist would agree with that.

Or people who find the idea of sucking out a baby and killing it is a little wrong. The biggest problem with the feminist movement are the feminists. A bitchier, less useful group of people does not exist.

 

The left REALLY needs to get over the whole "If you disagree, you're incredibly bad and stupid" rhetoric.

Abortion is about a woman's right to choose what she does with her own body. That's why feminists fight so strongly to preserve the right.

So, the unborn child's rights are completely ignored to exercise a non-existant right.

 

Yay, progress!

-=Mike

[Guest Loss]

Yes and how mad would you get if someone attempted to sterotype gay people in another argument?

Some gay men deserve to be stereotyped. I never once said all women.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Racism. This isn't Bush per se, though.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1342051,00.html

[Guest MikeSC]

Way to sterotype there.

If the shoe fits ...

Do YOU want to be painted by the stereotypes of gay men?

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Yes and how mad would you get if someone attempted to sterotype gay people in another argument?

Some gay men deserve to be stereotyped. I never once said all women.

No, just women you don't agree with.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what right do YOU have to even have an opinion, since you won't be involved in that whole process at any point?

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Racism. This isn't Bush per se, though.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1342051,00.html

Do you know how quickly all of these claims have been pretty thoroughly debunked?

-=Mike

[Guest Loss]

Or people who find the idea of sucking out a baby and killing it is a little wrong.

It's not a baby until it's born. It's not a life until it's born. How can the unborn have rights? They're not even technically alive yet. No one is advocating murdering the living here.

[Guest Loss]

If you don't mind me asking, what right do YOU have to even have an opinion, since you won't be involved in that whole process at any point?

-=Mike

I have friends who are women and I care that they continue to have the right to choose. I see the parallel you're trying to make regarding my previous comments on the rights to gay marriage, but it's a totally different argument, as what a woman does to her own body harms no one. Two people getting married harms no one. I'm consistent.

[Guest MikeSC]

Or people who find the idea of sucking out a baby and killing it is a little wrong.

It's not a baby until it's born. It's not a life until it's born.

Funny, fetal alcohol syndrome is a very legitimate and serious problem. Weird that you can affect a non-human like that.

How can the unborn have rights?

Please note that Peterson was just convicted of killing his unborn child.

They're not even technically alive yet. No one is advocating murdering the living here.

They actually are able to live outside of the womb at increasingly earlier ages.

-=Mike

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Racism.  This isn't Bush per se, though.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1342051,00.html

Do you know how quickly all of these claims have been pretty thoroughly debunked?

-=Mike

How quickly? Where and by whom?

[Guest MikeSC]

If you don't mind me asking, what right do YOU have to even have an opinion, since you won't be involved in that whole process at any point?

      -=Mike

I have friends who are women and I care that they continue to have the right to choose. I see the parallel you're trying to make regarding my previous comments on the rights to gay marriage, but it's a totally different argument, as what a woman does to her own body harms no one. Two people getting married harms no one. I'm consistent.

No, you're inconsistent. One person is very much harmed --- the child who is murdered. It's "totally different" because it doesn't impact you.

-=Mike

[Guest Loss]

That's ridiculous. I could just as easily argue that if life begins at conception, why don't we consider the date of conception the date of birth? Life begins at birth. It's a fairly simple concept. That doesn't mean that things can't happen prior to the birth that affect the baby once it's born.

 

I didn't think Peterson should have been charged with killing his unborn child actually. You can't kill something that isn't alive.

[Guest Loss]

No, you're inconsistent. One person is very much harmed --- the child who is murdered. It's "totally different" because it doesn't impact you.

-=Mike

We're going in circles quite clearly, but abortion is ending a pregnancy, not a life. The unborn are not living. They are not human beings yet. Life begins at birth.

[Guest Shoes Head]

Mike's right for once.

[Guest MikeSC]

Racism.  This isn't Bush per se, though.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1342051,00.html

Do you know how quickly all of these claims have been pretty thoroughly debunked?

-=Mike

How quickly? Where and by whom?

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/11/Columns/...t_electio.shtml

http://vote.caltech.edu/Reports/VotingMachines3.pdf

http://yalefreepress.blogspot.com/2004/11/...r-tin-foil.html

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

That's ridiculous. I could just as easily argue that if life begins at conception, why don't we consider the date of conception the date of birth?

Because finding the exact date of conception is a bit on the difficult side.

Life begins at birth. It's a fairly simple concept.

Then explain how fetal alcohol syndrome exists. Explain why a mother's drug intake should be able to impact something that is not alive.

That doesn't mean that things can't happen prior to the birth that affect the baby once it's born.

If it's not alive, then yes, it shouldn't be impacted.

I didn't think Peterson should have been charged with killing his unborn child actually. You can't kill something that isn't alive.

I look forward to the day when abortion is viewed as the crime against humanity that it is.

-=Mike