EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 3, 2004 I have a sort of cognitive dissonance regarding Mattingly. When I think of him I say "Great ballplayer" yet he's not in the Hall. I guess injuries and playing for some crappy Yankee teams in the 80s hurt. While the Mattingly Yankees never won a pennant, they did win two division titles, and twice won ninety games. Mattingly is hurt because had a very short peak. The Yankees never won the division with Mattingly (except for the strike year). They did win 90 games three times ('83, '85, '86). I confused 1995 as a division title. They did make the playoffs though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mosaicv2 Report post Posted December 3, 2004 Guys like Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson and Jim Rice will get in the Hall of fame sometime... maybe by this year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2004 For what its worth, here are the players I would give a vote for, if I held a ballot... Wade Boggs Ryne Sandberg Andre Dawson Bert Blyleven Alan Trammell Gosse Gossage We had a topic about this in July, and I mentioned the first five, and I am adding Gossage. Wade Boggs is obvious. I did a Keltner List on Sandberg here. I've always stumped for him and will continue to do so. I also covered Alan Trammell here. Blyleven won 287 games, mostly for bad teams. He did however win two championships, and retired #3 on the All-Time strikeout list. He also compiled a 5-1 record in postseason play. Andre Dawson was very similar to Carlos Beltran in his prime. Playing in Montreal robbed him of the media attention he deserves. Finally, if you are ever going to elect a closer, Gossage is your man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2004 Blyleven won 287 games. Not Gossage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2004 Oops. Fixed the typo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2004 Veteran's Committee ballot has been released: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb...s_mlb&fext=.jsp Here are breakdowns on each candidate using baseball-reference.com: Rocky Colavito - Right Fielder - Cleveland 1955-59 65-67, Detroit 1960-63, Kansas City 1964, Chicago (AL) 1967, Los Angeles 1968, New York (AL) 1968 Black Ink: Batting - 15 (146) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 152 (81) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 29.9 (285) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 72.5 (231) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 6 All-Star selections, 1 time led league in slugging, 2 times led league in total bases, 1 time led league in homeruns, 1 time led league in RBI, 1 time led league in walks Career rankings: 58th in homeruns OPS+: 132 Most Similar Player: Frank Howard Gil Hodges - First Baseman - Brooklyn/Los Angeles 1943-61, New York (NL) 1962-63 Black Ink: Batting - 2 (565) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 128 (133) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 31.7 (246) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 83.0 (192) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 8 All-Star selections, 3 Gold Gloves Career rankings: 59th in homeruns, 96th in RBI OPS+: 120 Most Similar Player: Norm Cash Jim Kaat - Starting Pitcher - Washington/Minnesota 1959-73, Chicago (AL) 1973-75, Philadelphia 1976-79, New York (AL) 1979-80, St. Louis 1980-83 Black Ink: Pitching - 19 (98) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 128 (131) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 44.0 (52) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 130.5 (54) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 3 All-Star selections, 16 Gold Gloves, 1 time led league in wins, 2 times led league in BB/9, 1 time led league in complete games, 1 time led league in shutouts Career Rankings: 29th in wins, 30th in strikeouts Most Similar Player: Tommy John Sparky Lyle - Closer - Boston 1967-71, New York (AL) 1972-80, Philadelphia 1980-82, Chicago (AL) 1982 Black Ink: Pitching - 10 (223) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 52 (459) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 18.0 (301) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 79.0 (139) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 3 All-Star selections, 1 Cy Young, 2 times led league in saves Career rankings: 15th in games, 26th in saves Most Similar Player: Tug McGraw Roger Maris - Right Fielder - Cleveland 1957-58, Kansas City 1958-59, New York (AL) 1960-66, St. Louis 1967-68 Black Ink: Batting - 18 (120) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 57 (416) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 22.0 (590) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 83.0 (192) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 4 All-Star selections, 2 MVP, 1 time led league in slugging, 1 time led league in runs, 1 time led league in total bases, 1 time led league in homeruns, 2 times led league in RBI OPS+: 127 Most Similar Player: Jeromy Burnitz Thurman Munson - Catcher - New York (AL) 1969-79 Gray Ink: Batting - 46 (515) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 29.5 (298) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 89.5 (167) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 7 All-Star selections, 1 MVP OPS+: 116 Most Similar Player: Terry Steinbach Tony Oliva - Right Fielder - Minnesota 1962-76 Black Ink: Batting - 41 (34) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 146 (93) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 28.9 (319) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 114.0 (120) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 8 All-Star selections, ROY, 1 Gold Glove, 3 times led league in batting average, 1 time led league in slugging, 1 time led league in runs, 5 times led league in hits, 1 time led league in total bases, 4 times led league in doubles OPS+: 131 Most Similar Player: Carl Furillo Ron Santo - Third Baseman - Chicago (NL) 1960-73, Chicago (AL) 1974 Black Ink: Batting - 11 (201) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 147 (87) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 40.9 (137) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 88.0 (173) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 9 All-Star selections, 5 Gold Gloves, 2 times led league in OBP, 1 time led league in triples, 4 times led league in walks Career rankings: 90th in total bases, 72nd in homeruns, 75th in RBI, 62nd in walks OPS+: 125 Most Similar Player: Dale Murphy Luis Tiant - Starting Pitcher - Cleveland 1964-69, Minnesota 1970, Boston 1971-78, New York (AL) 1979-80, Pittsburgh 1981, California 1982 Black Ink: Pitching - 13 (158) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Pitching - 115 (162) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Pitching - 41.0 (65) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 97.0 (95) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 3 All-Star selections, 2 times led league in ERA, 1 time led league in BR/9, 1 time led league in H/9, 1 time led league in K/9, 3 times led league in shutouts, 2 times led league in ERA+ Career rankings: 60th in wins, 95th in H/9, 32nd in strikeouts, 21st in shutouts Most Similar Player: Catfish Hunter (HOF) Joe Torre - Catcher/First Baseman/Third Basman - Milwaukee/Atlanta 1960-68, St. Louis 1969-74, New York (NL) 1975-77 Black Ink: Batting - 12 (184) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 71 (329) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 40.1 (143) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 96.0 (150) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 9 All-Star selections, 1 MVP, Gold Glove, 1 time led league in batting average, 1 time led league in hits, 1 time led league in total bases, 1 time led league in RBI OPS+: 129 Most Similar Player: Bobby Doerr (HOF) Maury Wills - Shortstop - Los Angeles 1959-66 69-72, Pittsburgh 1967-68, Montreal 1969 Black Ink: Batting - 16 (137) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 67 (353) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 28.6 (330) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 98.0 (146) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 5 All-Star selections, 1 MVP, 2 Gold Gloves, 1 time led league in triples, 6 times led league in stolen bases Career rankings: 18th in stolen bases OPS+: 88 Most Similar Player: Larry Bowa Joe Wood - Starting Pitcher/Outfielder - Boston 1908-15, Cleveland 1917 19-20 Black Ink: Pitching - 17 (115) (Average HOFer ~ 40) Gray Ink: Batting - 18 (1013) (Average HOFer ~ 144) Pitching - 91 (232) (Average HOFer ~ 185) HOF Standards: Batting - 10.0 (1549) Pitching - 38.0 (75) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Pitching - 67.5 (163) (Likely HOFer > 100) Accomplishments: 1 time led league in ERA, 1 time led league in wins, 1 time led league in K/9, 1 time led league in complete games, 1 time led league in shutouts Career rankings: 4th in ERA, 10th in BR/9, 12th in H/9, 3rd in ERA+ OPS+: 110 Most Similar Player: Orval Overall (Pitcher), Heinie Mueller (Hitter) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2004 Of those guys, Ron Santo and Joe Torre should be in the Hall. I'm on the fence about Jim Kaat. Luis Tiant is close, but I'd lean no. I'd say no on the rest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2004 Okay I'm blind...here's the full ballot. • Dick Allen • Bobby Bonds • Ken Boyer • Rocky Colavito • Wes Ferrell • Curt Flood • Joe Gordon • Gil Hodges • Elston Howard • Jim Kaat • Mickey Lolich • Sparky Lyle • Marty Marion • Roger Maris • Carl Mays • Minnie Minoso • Thurman Munson • Don Newcombe • Tony Oliva • Vada Pinson • Ron Santo • Luis Tiant • Joe Torre • Smoky Joe Wood • Maury Wills Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2004 That's a more interesting ballot. Minnie Minoso, Dick Allen, Wes Ferrell, and Joe Gordon deserve consideration as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2004 I just don't think any of the veteran players should make it. I also don't think any of them will make it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixrising 0 Report post Posted December 7, 2004 Santo should have been in like yesterday. Put him in now. I'd also support Hodges, Minoso, Kaat and Gordon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Czech Republic 0 Report post Posted December 8, 2004 I just don't think any of the veteran players should make it. I also don't think any of them will make it. Ron Santo has to get in. We've got Nomar back, we've got Walker back, now let's get Ron and Ryne in Cooperstown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
