RVD vs Christian thoughts

[Guest Captian Linger]

I don't understand why wrestlers like Christian and RVD, especially when fighting eachother, can't just have a spot-fest.

 

They REALLY REALLY sucked at working a normal match on RAW. Christian actually carried the whole match and used a lot of boring "wear down" tactics that you just wouldn't expect out of these two.

 

I don't even think spot-fests are all that great. RVD's "best" work in ECW was laughable as supposed "classics". But at least they got the crowd going and people bought into the whole act. I can just sense RVD's face pops slipping away every show that he doesn't kill himself ten different ways.

 

Both guys seem to be in the position to be burried right now. Neither guy seemed to want to step it up and give the proverbial "fuck you" to managment by going out and wrestling their hearts out. Quite frankly, mabye they are not capable of such a feat.

 

Let's review.

RVD sucks on the mic.

RVD can't work normal matches.

RVD's heat will slowly drift away.

 

Some how, I think that might have been the intention all along.

 

Closing-I know this post comes off as bitching, I'm just bored and throwing up a topic into the air. I won't respond to flames.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

RVD is over because when your in the crowd, it's easy to chant "R V D!" and point to yourself.

[Guest mickberna]

To be quite honest, while I do agree with you that RVD's heat is dwindling and he is not great working normal matches, I have no problem saying that Christian really mailed it in as well.  I can't believe you would say Christian "carried" this match, because there was frankly no match to speak of.  It was terrible.  Nobody carried anything, it was just a stinkbomb, plain and simple.  I'll give both Christian and RVD their props when they do something worthwhile, but just because people think Christian's the better worker should not instantly give him immunity from criticism.  

 

Bottom Line, both guys can be awesome, but tonight, they BOTH sucked.  Whattaya gonna do.

[Guest Loss4Words]

Jim Ross doesn't allow the wrestlers to have spotfests anymore. Wrestle like Danny Hodge or bust.

 

Unless you're the Hardy Boyz though, who were a casualty of JR going into business for himself by claiming that the wrestlers should work a more mat-based style when Vince McMahon was very adamant that the Hardys wrestle a spotfest.

 

The wrestlers are getting mixed signals on what they can and can't do. It is frustrating I'm sure.

[Guest Kinetic]

It makes sense, though.  Jim Ross is the director of talent relations or something of that nature.  He knows the extent to which injuries can cripple the roster.  Spotfests are generally the most dangerous sort of match, in which you're almost guaranteed to get some sort of injury regardless of how careful you are.  That ssid, I still think there's a place for that sort of thing.  Guys like the Hardys have proven that they aren't particularly effective as mat-based wrestlers, so they shouldn't be forced to work that sort of match.  You have to dance with what brought you, so to speak.

[Guest theWCWRaider]

Jim Ross telling these guys to wrestle a mat based style and then pushing for a better cruiserweight devision also sends mixed signals.

 

Remember what made the WCW Cruiserweight devision rule so much?

It was the action, and the risks. I don't remember the cruiserweight title being fought over in mat classics.

It was fought for in matches that had a little of everything.

 

As for RVD Vs. Christian last night, I don't know, I thought it was the best match on the show, but that's not saying too much.

Another thing for RVD, is that in ECW he got to work longer matches on PPV and Tv, than he's going to get in the WWF, and that does make a big difference.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Cruiserweight matches are best when they are taken to the mat, I'd rather watch a scientific Dean Malenko match that some RVD/Hardyz flippy-flop spotfest.

[Guest Loss4Words]

Well, either Vince shouldn't be undermining JR or JR should be making sure that Vince agrees with the changes he's trying to make. There seems to be a lack of communication there. JR actually does have some good points about toning down high spots, but I can say without hesitation that a cruiser division with him heading talent relations is destined to fail since he seems to think Steve Austin and Kurt Angle are the only wrestlers worth a damn in the WWF.

[Guest Army Eye]

all in all, it was a strange match.  They had a nice series leading up to the finish, but the first few minutes were very poor.  Off night for Christian it looked like.  He probably is wondering if he's ever going to get a win a match again.

[Guest Loss4Words]

I'm anxious for the day when a blond Canadian comes along that doesn't job excessively. I'll let you know when it happens.

[Guest JerryDrake]

Christian might end up like Jericho, remember how Jericho became a heel in WCW?

[Guest Ripper]

Like it or not, it was the best match of the show, although it was pretty bad.  

 

What killed the match was all the chinlocks and chokes.  Rest hold have no place in a short match.  RVD can work a normal match...he can't work a short one.  That is something he will apparently will have to work on.   And after they felt each other out in the first couple of minutes, the match climbed to watchable so I wouldn't say it was a total bust(ok maybe it was but dammit, I know they can pull off a great match.)

 

 

Ripper, same ol' RIP.....just 3 more letters.

[Guest Army Eye]

Christian might end up like Jericho, remember how Jericho became a heel in WCW?

Yeah I thought about that, but, Christian is already a heel.  It wouldn't be the same..

[Guest J*ingus]

I'm anxious for the day when a blond Canadian comes along that doesn't job excessively. I'll let you know when it happens.

 

What would you call Test?  There's a blond Canadian who's pushed a lot harder & jobs less than most of the other midcarders.  

 

Same thing with Trish Stratus, except for her recent loss to Jazz of course.

[Guest Banky]

I actually liked the match

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

i liked the match too.  i did get a little bored with the chinlocks though, they had no real place in the match.  i particularly liked the spot where rvd slammed christian into a roll and jump onto the turnbuckle, then hit a moonsault, i thought that was very cool.

[Guest artDDP]

RVD should be allowed to work one seven-minute match at most once a week on television.  It'll be great for his character and gives the crowd something special to watch.  Of course, the WWF's plan is to "humble" Rob Van Dam at the moment, so sound business won't win out.

 

Van Dam seems to be doing his best to try to fit in with the WWF and it's just not working for him.  His uniqueness was what got him over in the first place and the WWF shouldn't try to rob him of it.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

The chinlocks are in that match for the same reason his pops are being edited...The WWF is doing everything possible to kill RVD being over.

 

Why would they do that?

 

Because he is the one and only performer that they ever had who is:

 

1.  Over based solely on his in ring action.

2.  More popular than some of the "Main Event Faces" *coughHHHcough

3.  He got over without help of a WWF push...meaning that the WWF didn't make him...you know that Vince has to hate that.

4.  All of the depushing started on January 7.  Go figure.

[Guest Daredevil21]

Might as well throw in my two cents as if it means anything. When I saw this thread earlier, I was seriously expecting to open it up and see some praises. I guess I was expecting that, because unlike most people here, I liked the match. I know a spot-fest would have been better, but don't jump on them for trying something a little different. Trying new things is what keeps you from getting stale. Sure the end result wasn't great, but I enjoyed the match and quite frankly, that's all I care about. I'm not gonna be swayed by the masses just yet. While watching (and enjoying) the match, I kept thinking, "Well, at least the smarks will be happy since two smark favorites got some solid tv time," but I guess I was way off. I liked how their rest spots got the crowd responding to the match a lot more. It reminded me of wrestling from days gone by. So yeah, most of you hated the match, but I liked it and give them credit for at least trying a new style out there.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I too liked the match

[Guest Nudist with a Bomb]

I liked the match as well.

I also liked that Christian got a good rub and wasn't squashed.

The only bad thing about the match was the lack of crowd noise ... but that crowd sucked period ... what do you expect in a dry county?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

That was the worst crowd ever.

 

Biggest Pops:

 

1.  Vince says "Hogs"

2.  Undertaker (although he is a heel)

3.  Everything else is tied.

[Guest LowSparkOfHighHeeledBoys]

RVD on my TV every week? please tell me you're joking...if he needs to learn the right way to pace his matches and call spots, don't do it on TV, do it somewhere where the fans will let you know immediately if you made a good choice, namely off my television in OVW. Besides, he's not over soley based on his ring skills...he's over because he can make the rednecks chat his name because he came up with that point thing...plus he's more of an acrobat than the Hardy's. RVD belongs on the trapeze at Ringling Brothers.

[Guest cabbageboy]

What is with all this bashing of a halfway decent match?  Yeah, Christian was kinda lame on Raw because he used all the chinlocks and stuff.  If you notice Christian does this in all of his matches.  I haven't seen a singles match with Christian that I thought was all that great.  

 

There is no reason for RVD not to win the IC title at WM.  It would be horrible if this insipid Goldust feud lasted any longer than a week or two more.

[Guest Galactic Gigolo]

In response to something that was said earlier, the best WCW Cruiserweight matches were the ones that were taken to the mat for 3/4 of the match, and for 1/4 of the match a high paced, high flying type match.  Look at Cruiserweight matches involving Benoit, Malenko, Rey (when he was good), and a couple other guys.  

 

Though La Parka's matches, by default, are automatically ******.  Yes, six stars.  They do exist, Scott Keith is just holding a glass ceiling over La Parka.

[Guest Ghast]

That match showed Christian sucks ass. RVD is okay but he couldn't do anything because Christian wanted to BRING THE CHINLOCK~! Everyone says Christian is good. The nwaht does he does when the WWF gives him the longest match on the show? He chinlocks RVD into hell. Good job, asshole. This pretty boy doesn't deserve a push for at least a year with his bullshit skills.

[Guest Ghast]

That match showed Christian sucks ass. RVD is okay but he couldn't do anything because Christian wanted to BRING THE CHINLOCK~! Everyone says Christian is good. The nwaht does he does when the WWF gives him the longest match on the show? He chinlocks RVD into hell. Good job, asshole. This pretty boy doesn't deserve a push for at least a year with his bullshit skills.

[Guest Banky]

Hey buddy, its called psychology.  RVD is the high flyer and Christian was keeping him grounded.  I am pretty sure the match was laid out for Christian by Pat Patterson or whoever, so don't blame him.

[Guest HellSpawn]

I liked the match.

But thats the problem with RVD lovers, uh, excuse me, some RVD fans, they get bored when the match is not a spot-fest.

As Banky said, Psychology is very important in a match.

That was also what killed the Dudleys, every single fan began to chant "Tables, Tables" after 5 seconds, and what happen? they are boring now, because been heels the fans cant ask them to put Rocky, Edge or another face throw a table, and neither cant call "wassssup".

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

It seems to me like the wrestlers aren't giving away the good stuff for free anymore.