The invasion angle

[Guest]

I know that these types of threads have been posted before but seriously: How could the WWE fucked this up?

 

What is worst is that the InVasion got off to a good start. First when Booker T. invaded King Of The Ring which I marked out for, then him being named the person to lead wCw into the future.

 

Personally, I still kept marking out each and every week that wCw made an apperance on WWE T.V. just because it was different even if it was Sean Staskiak, Chuck Palumbo and Sean O' Haire (the WWF mid and low carders beating them up was pretty sweet) though maybe that was part of the promblem.

 

I was so excited getting waiting for InVasion just because it was historic. I was disappointed with Booker T. and Buff Bagwell's match on that infamous RAW, but the next week had one of my all time favorite RAW episodes with the reformation of ECW.

 

It got better the next week, when Classy Freddie Blassie made that speech and the "Old" Stone Cold Steve Austin came back and I was pumped for InVasion.

 

The WWE lost and after Summerslam, I started disliking the angle and by the beginning of September, the InVasion angle didn't really interest me anymore.

 

For me, I didn't like the InVasion because the guys leading the Alliance were WWE guys even though I tried but couldn't.

 

I talked to marks and they said they didn't like it because they didn't have any major wCw superstars like Goldberg, Kevin Nash, and Ric Flair. That was also why I didn't like it.

 

Anyway, I was so depressed as to why it flopped when it got off to a good start.

[Guest HartFan86]

From Judgment Day 2001 to Summerslam 2001, the WWF ROCKED. I regret not taping every show of it. I never realized til now how much the WWF did right then and how much it's done wrong since.

[Guest Special K]

1. They didn't bring in the big WCW stars

 

2. They buried a shitload of people right quick: Awesome, DDP (one of their only big WCW stars) Kanyon, O'haire and Palumbo. That's a good way for an invasion to quickly look impotent

 

3. WCW and ECW should have been separate entities working together. The Alliance? Who gives a shit about that?

Heyman should have led ECW. He gave more focus to the invasion in his last interview than everything preceding. How the fuck is Steph extreme?

 

4. Generally the lack of focus. WCW should have been about wrestling, and ECW should have been about REAL hardcore shit, challenging WWF guys to barb-wire matches, etc.

 

5. Generally, the alliance just looked incredibly pitiful, a bunch of jobbers. Whether it was VInce's fault or not, the invasion never had an upper hand in the feud.

[Guest HartFan86]

How the fuck is Steph extreme?

Insert Sex Joke.

[Guest Risk]

First off, WCW died after Vince bought it.  It wasn't a "real" invasion.  Ditto with ECW.  I WOULDN'T have booked the invasion as promotion against promotion.  I would have booked it as former stars from WCW/ECW, now members of the WWE, fighting to get what they deserved.  Having Heyman and Flair as moutheices.

[Guest]

[From Judgment Day 2001 to Summerslam 2001, the WWF ROCKED. QUOTE]

 

JudgementDay2001-OneOfTheWorstPPV'sOf2001.OfCourseThisWasTheTimeOfThe

HorribleUndertakerAndKaneVs.AustinAndHHHFeud.

 

KingOfTheRing2001-

HadItsMoments.BookerT'sAttackOnAustin.ShaneMcmahonVs.

KurtAngle.

 

InVasion-Historic.

 

SummerSlam2001-HadAbout4Or5GoodMatchesOnTheCard.

[Guest razazteca]

1) No real break out heel from the WCW Invasion, DDP was the only true heel then Taker, no sold the angle.

 

2) DDP vs Taker, Booker T vs Buffy

 

3) Austin as the Alliance leader

 

4) The Sucubus known as Stephanie got air time

 

5) bad selection of WCW "talent" were on tv......Chuck Palumbo vs APA lasted too long

 

6) Craziak running into walls

 

7) nWo should of been in the Invasion

 

8) titles switching companies....Taker&Kane as WCW tag champs and Rock as WCW gold belt champ.

 

9) Booker T as the official whipping boy of Billionaire Ted rastling company

 

10) The McMahon Family trying out for MTV real world spin-off show

[Guest HartFan86]

[From Judgment Day 2001 to Summerslam 2001, the WWF ROCKED. QUOTE]

 

JudgementDay2001-OneOfTheWorstPPV'sOf2001.OfCourseThisWasTheTimeOfThe

HorribleUndertakerAndKaneVs.AustinAndHHHFeud.

 

KingOfTheRing2001-

HadItsMoments.BookerT'sAttackOnAustin.ShaneMcmahonVs.

KurtAngle.

 

InVasion-Historic.

 

SummerSlam2001-HadAbout4Or5GoodMatchesOnTheCard.

Um...have you ever heard of Raw and Smackdown?

[Guest Steve J. Rogers]

Several things led to the Invasion screwup:

 

1)  The slot that Excess is in right now was orginally meant to be the time slot for a WCW brand TV show (also either Smackdown or Raw was going to flip as well) but due to the stench that was associated with the name WCW (check the ratings for Nitro and Thunder the last 6 months before the final Nitro) and the fact that there were no Goldbergs, Stings, Lugers, Steiners, (either Rick or Scott) Flairs, Nashes, or other "names" to help promote the new WCW, even if for a one-time-only shot TNN declined the WWF's request.

 

Can't say I blame them, or UPN as well.  Viacom signed on for WWF programing, not WCW programing, not something that allready has proven to be damaged goods.  

 

Put it this way, when the Nets came into the NBA they were the defending ABA champs and they trade Julius Erving.  Now why on EARTH would anyone pay to see the Nets play in the NBA sans their best player? (and rightfully so the Nets have been the doormats of the NBA ever since, untill this year)

 

2)  Remeber all those times house shows were scheduled for WCW cards but then cancelled and pushed back untill they never were rescheduled?  I don't know but I bet that was because they had poor advance sales.  As with the first reason, no one wants to see what is percieved as a damaged property sans the names you associate with that property.  I mean you'd be pissed if you went to a WWF house show and the only names on the card of any promience were Edge and Kane (giving you a Booker T and DDP analogy as those two would be the only big names still recongnizable on the original 22 man WCW roster)

 

3) Tacoma and Portland.  WWF tried on RAW and Smackdown in July to do WCW matches on WWF TV after canceling the house show circut and scrapping the seperate TV slot ideas and this is where the Buff Bagwell shit went down.  Both shows featured deadly silence from the crowd when the WCW matches occured, which included a Billy Kidman-Greg "Hurricane" Helms (yup, it was just a nickname back then) match for the crusierweight title, a staple of what made WCW a SMARK favorite, which means it got no response from the markish crowd (not to mention BORING chants)

 

But the biggest dissaster was the Raw WCW title match with Booker T and Buff Bagwell in which Buff was completely un-inspired and wrestled like crap.  Pretty much ruining his chance of ever getting back into the spotlight.  Naturally marks were mortified by this thinking "THIS IS the best WCW has to offer?"  

 

3) The complete fucking of everything that already happened in storylines.  Okay let me get these things straight:  Linda wants to divorce Vince but all of a sudden because her kids have betrayed her she is back by his side.  Not to mention why does Vince and Linda LET Shane and Steph and Alliance members back INTO WWF shows after they betrayed them?  Think about it, both sold their stock in the company (thankfully they remebered that when they brought Flair back) so really NO ONE IN THE ALLIANCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED IN TO A WWF SHOW

 

4)  At no time even when WCW was the face were they considered a threat.  Well the only time was when Shane mentioned WCW's past ass kicking of the WWF.  The comments by Vince, the APA and others made WCW into piggy back riders on the WWF's success rather than an entity that DID beat the WWF and may BEAT it again.

 

5)  Complete hypocracy by Ross and Cole after Shane turned.  Instead of "Hey lets give these guys a chance huh?" and JR telling Vince and Austin he may leave and work with Shane after Austin kicked Ross' ass to "I've been there I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK!" and "Why don't Steph and Shane get real jobs" and "I rather work with the devil I know rather than the devil I don't know"  Way to build a promotion's leaders

 

Those are some of the bigger ones.

 

Steve

[Guest Anglesault]

so really NO ONE IN THE ALLIANCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED IN TO A WWF SHOW

 

They should have ran an angle where Shane and Steph held the Hardcore title hostage (I think Awesome had it) until Vince Linda would allow them on.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

plain and simple it was because Vince was unwilling to allow the WcW wrestlers to go over His boys.

[Guest Risk]

Maybe Vince should have not bought any WCW talent, he could have let them sweat in the indies and then have his choice of any he wanted.

[Guest Austin3164life]

The Invasion angle was ruined because after Vince bought WCW, he wanted to publicly degrade Ted's guys, and bury WCW's storied history.  Austin should not have been the leader (but he should have been in it).  Paul Heyman should have been a much bigger rolelplayer.  Booker T was made to look like an idiot.  Basically, all of the WCW guys should have been made to look more credible with good victories and better storylines.......

[Guest]

What events caused the Alliance to suck:

 

The birth of "WHAT??!!!!"

 

ECW + WCW

 

Kronik's one time appearance

 

Stasiak crashing into walls

 

No big names

 

Vince/Linda divorce ends in romance, for T\the McMahons at least

 

WCW Title being treated like the WWF title

 

Few wars within both groups

 

Heyman bowing down to the younger McMahon children.

[Guest alfdogg]

Undertaker should have jobbed to DDP, and to Booker T at no Mercy.  But he didn't and that's why neither one of them could get over.

[Guest]

The two things that really hobbled the angle IMO:

 

1) When Shane & Booker first appeared as 'the new WCW,' they were faces. I remember them getting great responses, and recent review of the last Nitro and the RAW from the same night confirm this. When Vince decided he wanted to be the face in the angle, the heat died.

 

2) SMH as the leader of ECW. July 9, when ECW 're-formed,' was one of my biggest markout moments ever. The warm markish afterglow lasted right until SMH screeched out... oh, well.

[Guest notJames]

plain and simple it was because Vince was unwilling to allow the WcW wrestlers to go over His boys.

Amen.

[Guest converge241]

short answer: Vince was in charge of it, and cant exercise some control over his ego and pride in the WWF/E.

 

long answer(s)

1) they should have decided whether they were going to have them invade right away/keep them seperat/rebuild it. they bounced like a pinball and did all three of these

2) they needed the big names if they wanted to make an impact if they decided they were not going to rebuild

3) they needed to treat everyone they picked up with an equal level of reverance as the wwf superstars. even just pushing the xfactor on the lesser guys like "boy we havent seen this hugh morrus guy, who knows what he is capable of"

4) they needed to have an excess like show that would air  profiles on everybody for the new audience. pretty easy considering Vince bought the rights to it all.

5) Shane and Steph should have never been involved. this ones a hindsight 20/20 deal. I understood why they did it and thought it would work at first, but even before steph came in you could see all the problems with having a mcmahon in charge. I might have said just hire some actor (not a big name, just someone who can act) to portray the new owner with Flair as his foil

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Go back to the Nitro/Raw simulcast where Vince basically took a dump on WCW and all the workers.  The "who to hire/who to fire" bit, backstage stuff through the whole show, that's where it went wrong.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

The Invasion was going fine until SummerSlam.  Summerslam was where everything went wrong.  Out of the entire Alliance, only Test & RVD won.  In particular DDP, Kanyon, Lance Storm & Booker T were made to look like jobbers.

 

DDP & Kanyon got squashed in one of the worst matches that I have ever seen.

 

Lance Storm couldn't even win with Christian's help.

 

Booker survived, but was destroyed when he lost in a handicap match to Rock in the rematch.

 

Nobody, either the fans or the WWF wrestlers (mini-Booker?) took the Alliance seriously after that.

 

I don't buy the idea that the lack of big names hurt the Alliance.  For most of the summer, the Alliance guys (in particular, RVD, Austin, Hurricane, DDP, Christian, Booker, Storm, Kanyon & Rhyno) were more over than Team WWF (with only Rock, Edge, Jericho, Taker & Angle getting any kind of significant heat).  It was the fact the Alliance ALWAYS lost, except for Test (who was not over) and RVD (who was over), that killed all of their heat.  Despite what the SE loyalists will tell you, its hard to get behind someone who you know will never win.  Even if a wrestler is going to lose, the fans must believe that he COULD win.

[Guest converge241]

I don't buy the idea that the lack of big names hurt the Alliance.  

 

i agree, i just think it would have helped.

 

i watched invasion with 30-35 people at a friends house all mostl non-internet fans and they saw it as equal and were super inot RVD and Rhyno. youre right Summersalm that aspect all fell apart

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<The two things that really hobbled the angle IMO:

 

1) When Shane & Booker first appeared as 'the new WCW,' they were faces. I remember them getting great responses, and recent review of the last Nitro and the RAW from the same night confirm this. When Vince decided he wanted to be the face in the angle, the heat died.>>>

 

 

 

BUT, you forget one thing---after the Buff v Booker debacle---the fans TURNED on Booker completely. Angle and Austin's run-in (which SHOULD have resulted in boos) drew one of the loudest pops of the night.

 

Vince was already struggling trying to get Austin's heel turn over. Trying to keep WCW as a face when the fans CLEARLY did not like WCW (lest we forget, the stories were that fans walked out during the Booker v Buff match at the house shows on the weekend before that fateful RAW) would've been WAY too much work.

 

In hindsight, they should have had DDP v Booker as the first WCW match---well, that is if one realizes that they would not make WCW a legit seperate promotion.

 

In the PERFECT scenario, WWF would have had WCW/ECW (they never had the rights to ECW, which is why ECW was mentioned so rarely) run their own shows for a few months. Stick to small arenas (Hammerstein Ballroom--BABEE!) and give the fans a chance to see an improved WCW product. Change WCW's rules so that it would be actually different than WWF.

 

After a few months---THEN begin to do a little teasing of an "invasion". Give WCW/ECW a small, loyal cult of fans to combat the overwhelming WWF "face" advantage.

 

 

<<<2) SMH as the leader of ECW. July 9, when ECW 're-formed,' was one of my biggest markout moments ever. The warm markish afterglow lasted right until SMH screeched out... oh, well. >>>

 

 

Steph was a poor choice---but honestly, Heyman isn't exactly a heat machine in his own right.

 

Heyman would have been a better choice than Steph, though.

                   -=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<Several things led to the Invasion screwup:

 

1)  The slot that Excess is in right now was orginally meant to be the time slot for a WCW brand TV show (also either Smackdown or Raw was going to flip as well) but due to the stench that was associated with the name WCW (check the ratings for Nitro and Thunder the last 6 months before the final Nitro) and the fact that there were no Goldbergs, Stings, Lugers, Steiners, (either Rick or Scott) Flairs, Nashes, or other "names" to help promote the new WCW, even if for a one-time-only shot TNN declined the WWF's request.>>>

 

 

Actually, I thought WWF was trying to get a better slot because they knew that a WCW show at that time would NEVER draw a fly.

 

 

<<<Can't say I blame them, or UPN as well.  Viacom signed on for WWF programing, not WCW programing, not something that allready has proven to be damaged goods.  

 

Put it this way, when the Nets came into the NBA they were the defending ABA champs and they trade Julius Erving.  Now why on EARTH would anyone pay to see the Nets play in the NBA sans their best player? (and rightfully so the Nets have been the doormats of the NBA ever since, untill this year)

 

2)  Remeber all those times house shows were scheduled for WCW cards but then cancelled and pushed back untill they never were rescheduled?  I don't know but I bet that was because they had poor advance sales.  As with the first reason, no one wants to see what is percieved as a damaged property sans the names you associate with that property.  I mean you'd be pissed if you went to a WWF house show and the only names on the card of any promience were Edge and Kane (giving you a Booker T and DDP analogy as those two would be the only big names still recongnizable on the original 22 man WCW roster)>>>

 

 

What the WWF SHOULD have done was have one or two high-profile guys go to WCW. Use the two high-profile WWF guys to give a bit of a rub to WCW's guys (who actually can get pretty over when given the chance).

 

 

<<<3) Tacoma and Portland.  WWF tried on RAW and Smackdown in July to do WCW matches on WWF TV after canceling the house show circut and scrapping the seperate TV slot ideas and this is where the Buff Bagwell shit went down.  Both shows featured deadly silence from the crowd when the WCW matches occured, which included a Billy Kidman-Greg "Hurricane" Helms (yup, it was just a nickname back then) match for the crusierweight title, a staple of what made WCW a SMARK favorite, which means it got no response from the markish crowd (not to mention BORING chants)>>>

 

 

I remember the fans getting into it at the end---but doing that AFTER the RAW disaster was just a poor choice. The next night had some decent WCW matches (Jindrak & O'Haire v Stasiak & Kanyon, DDP v Booker, and Helms v Kidman) and THAT would have been a much better barometer.

 

Damned Cleveland fans in March cheering for Buff's name led to that disaster.

 

 

<<<But the biggest dissaster was the Raw WCW title match with Booker T and Buff Bagwell in which Buff was completely un-inspired and wrestled like crap.  Pretty much ruining his chance of ever getting back into the spotlight.  Naturally marks were mortified by this thinking "THIS IS the best WCW has to offer?"  

 

3) The complete fucking of everything that already happened in storylines.  Okay let me get these things straight:  Linda wants to divorce Vince but all of a sudden because her kids have betrayed her she is back by his side.  Not to mention why does Vince and Linda LET Shane and Steph and Alliance members back INTO WWF shows after they betrayed them?  Think about it, both sold their stock in the company (thankfully they remebered that when they brought Flair back) so really NO ONE IN THE ALLIANCE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED IN TO A WWF SHOW>>>

 

 

They could have given a reason why they were kept on the air (something like the WWF wanted to defeat them publicly), but the writers were too sloppy to actually do that.

 

 

<<<4)  At no time even when WCW was the face were they considered a threat.  Well the only time was when Shane mentioned WCW's past ass kicking of the WWF.  The comments by Vince, the APA and others made WCW into piggy back riders on the WWF's success rather than an entity that DID beat the WWF and may BEAT it again.>>>

 

 

Let's not forget that WCW had just finished having the WORST possible run of business any promotion has ever seen in the history of this industry. To pretend that WCW WAS a threat at the time would have been laughed at.

 

Which is why they should have NEVER co-mingled the groups.

 

 

<<<5)  Complete hypocracy by Ross and Cole after Shane turned.  Instead of "Hey lets give these guys a chance huh?" and JR telling Vince and Austin he may leave and work with Shane after Austin kicked Ross' ass to "I've been there I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK!" and "Why don't Steph and Shane get real jobs" and "I rather work with the devil I know rather than the devil I don't know"  Way to build a promotion's leaders>>>

 

 

TECHNICALLY, Ross's handling of WCW/ECW was the PERFECT way to handle them. Ross was a WWF guy. No matter how much he hated Vince, he knew where his bread was buttered. He was a WWF guy and he was going to stay there, rather than go with an upstart promotion that he hated.

 

To keep the storyline consistent, he SHOULD have been vigorously opposed to them.

                             -=Mike

[Guest dreamer420]

I was watching an Invasion comp last night and I must say that I enjoyed rewatching all that stuff now than I did orginally.  Back when the Invasion was first taking place the WCW/ECW crew were getting squashed every match and they looked like they had no credibility.  I think what ruined the Invasion was having so many WWF wrestlers defecting to the Alliance.  IF the Alliance was going to welcome any new members they should have been unemployed at the time of hired.  Not switching sides for an angle.  By the end the Alliance was filled with guys who should have never left the WWF (austin, angle, molly, christian, test).

[Guest bravesfan]

There was a 99% chance that this entire angle could kick serious ass.... If they had the chance to bring in Sting, the Steiners, Jarrett, Goldberg, etc. this would've been one of the greatest mark-outs ever....

 

(This is without the previous Booker T stuff, and Shane appearances on Raw}

Let's say Austin had the belt going into the June PPV, but it was clouded by a shady call at the previous PPV (Example: Austin versus Angle {Austin as Vince's little *bee-yotch* that he was during the REAL Invasion...Vince as special enforcer and the dreaded "double pin"... Austin came into the May PPV as champ, so he keeps the belt...

 

Vince puts Austin in a World title tournament at KOTR (instead of the regular KOTR tournament) as the man with the BYE, with Angle in it as well{thanks to Linda, while Vince probably would've left Angle out}

 

 

KOTR 2001

UT

Rhyno

 

Austin

 

Benoit

Kane

 

Jericho

Angle

 

UT beats Rhyno, but loses to Austin in the semis w/screwjob by Vince. Benoit beats Kane, faces Jericho (who everyone thinks turned heel after Vince screws Angle in their **** MATCH. Suspected heel Jericho loses to Benoit, but people still hound on him for "cheating" to beat Angle ala Sting/Fake Sting.

 

In finals, Austin hangs on beating Benoit {plug-in the match on Smackdown between them in real life}....

 

 

Vince celebrates with heel Austin with all wrestlers at the coronation on Raw the next night... Vince says "WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE UNDEEEEESPUTED CHAMP, STONE COLD STE-"

 

Cue Booker's {or Shane's music}with Booker, Shane, Sting, Jarrett, Steiner, Goldberg, Nash and Hall followed by a STAMPEDE of WCW'ers comes to a OFF-THE-CHARTS pop, charge the ring and go straight up with the WWF guys to the end of Raw...

 

That's how you do it.... I think.