Can The Fallen Angel Succeed as X Division Champ?

[RedJed 0]

Wouldnt it be OPINION that Jarrett is a world class champion?

[Carnival 0]

nah, it's fact.

[Guest MikeSC]

Shamrock was never over. And Goldust was over --- before he was given the IC Title in 1999. At that point, he was deadweight.

You're right, our definitions of over are way different. Clearly Shamrock was very over, ask anyone.

People openly commented that Shammy could never connect with the WWF audience.

After his little Jericho fued he became less over.

Jericho was buried having to work with him.

That was largely due to Russo being an inept buffoon. Jericho actually managed to get heat in a match with Chyna.

Jarrett had more heel heat in his match with Chyna than Jericho did. Jericho was getting a babyface reaction when he was suppossed to be heel.

JJ had "OMG, he hit a woman" heat. Jericho actually made Chyna seem remotely compelling.

And I could be mean and mention how insanely quickly Jeff managed to lose the sympathy heat Owen's death gave him.

What does that have to do with anything? He lost the sympathy cuz he was a heel. he was babyface for one night after.

He was completely un-over less than one month later.

 

Less than one month.

Yet JJ couldn't get over with the UT.

Edge

D-Lo Brown

Val Venis (when Val was over)

X-Pac (when he was actually over)

JJ more over than edge during that time

JJ more over than Val Venis during that time.

JJ more over than X-Pac at the time.

JJ equal to D'Lo at that time.

BWAHA HA HA!

 

You clearly didn't watch...

And When did Jarrett fued with the Undertaker???? I seriously don't remember that.

That was his first program when he returned. Did you forget their snoozefest at IYH: DX? Yeah, you probably did. Everybody else has.

He WAS a heatless jobber.

 

He makes Randy Orton look like Hulk Hogan in the mid-1980's.

He was a top 5 heel in the company in 1999.

I've already disproven that.

He should have been pushed up the card. Jericho is in that same posistion right now. Vince just thinks certain people should be mid-card for life i guess. Although they prove themselves to be main event talent. Jeff proved himself in WCW. He was also very over in WCW.

He popped a buyrate...when?

He popped an audience...when?

He popped TV ratings...when?

Hell, WCW did worse in 2000 than they did in 1999 with JJ as the "top guy".

 

He was demoted to midcard hell --- IN WCW, for God's sake --- because he couldn't get over.

He should have been included in the invasion, it would have been 10x better.

 

It's not a crush. It's a fact. Jeff Jarrett is a world class World Champ.

Even the fans of his OWN company don't agree with you.

-=Mike

[RedJed 0]

nah, it's fact.

Just saying that adds zero credibility to all of these arguments you are trying to disprove or fight against. No need to prove this guy wrong anymore, MikeSC, it's more of a running joke now on his replies, saying things like it's "fact" that Jarrett is a "world class champ." If he was, first and foremost, TNA would be a profitable company ever since June of last year.

 

Hell, I think even Jerry Jarrett himself wouldnt agree with that "world class champ" statement!

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

I think all the proof you need that Jarrett's a problem is the fact that RedJed, Slapnuts and myself are saying he is. We're probably three of the biggest TNA supporters.

[RedJed 0]

Yeah, I just wish Jarrett would be a solid upper mid carder and left at that. It's like we already have one champion in US wrestling with basically the same story as Jarrett in HHH, why does TNA first and foremost think it will be a draw to copy from the HHH formula which only serves to bury talent (this is a rhetorical question) and then furthermore have the role served to a guy who has NEVER truly drawn a sizable amount of interest as a main eventer.

 

I understand that TNA feels its smart to have a long term world champion with some name value, but for it to be Jeff is not the answer. I look at it this way, he's had the belt for 10 months now - they are still not nearing profitability, the time is up and the Jarrett as champ idea needs to be dropped - time to move on. Jarrett's name holds about the same ground as having a guy like Nash as champion (which would be equally bad if not maybe even worse) - sure, they are known name to wrestling fans, but they arent equated with the right name value - having runs in the dying days of WCW is probably the biggest negative against guys like Jarrett and Nash and always will be.

 

Jerry was smart in the initial stages of TNA in recognizing that the fanbase would 1) pretty much know that they - Jeff and Jerry - are running the company and as such 2) Jerry knew its not smart to push Jeff down the throats of the fans. Where that vision was lost in years past baffles me. In Jerry's book on the development of TNA, he seemed to have butted heads pretty hard with Jeff nearing the end of the book, which was timelined almost during the entire 2002 year. Ironically that was when Jeff began his first run as NWA champ. Coincidence? I doubt it.

 

Jerry, from the stories I heard, kind of fell out of grace with the TNA vision when Russo started getting nutty and Panda took more control also. When Mantel was hired, I think Jerry was all but null and void in TNA and was working more on other things. Hell, even when they moved to Orlando, I dont think he was very involved. He didnt like how Jeff was running the company and also how he was at the same time doing the only thing Jerry didnt want Jeff to do when they bought the company - push himself to the moon while making everyone else secondary by a long shot.

 

Sorry, got a little off topic there - point trying to be made is that even his own father realizes the reality of Jeff as a lack of a draw v. what Jeff and others thinks he is.

[Carnival 0]

People openly commented that Shammy could never connect with the WWF audience.

 

Thats wrong. obviously he did connect with them at one point. Shamrock was very over at many points in his career. He was in the main event scene for a while.

 

JJ had "OMG, he hit a woman" heat. Jericho actually made Chyna seem remotely compelling.

 

Jarrett was over before then. Jericho did nothing for Chyna, nothing against Jericho, nobody could make chyna compelling. jericho was the heel and was cheered way over chyna.

 

He was completely un-over less than one month later.

 

Jarrett was still just as over. Just not a babyface..cuz shock...he played the heel. He got cheered the night after owen died, then he went back to heeling. Being a heel doesn't make you unover.

 

JJ more over than edge during that time

JJ more over than Val Venis during that time.

JJ more over than X-Pac at the time.

JJ equal to D'Lo at that time.

 

 

BWAHA HA HA!

 

You clearly didn't watch...

 

Again clearly you think being a babyface means you are over. And being a heel is unover, cuz all those you named were babyfaces at one time in 99.

 

That was his first program when he returned. Did you forget their snoozefest at IYH: DX? Yeah, you probably did. Everybody else has.

 

I wasn't aware of a fued between the two. I'll have to look it up.

 

He was a top 5 heel in the company in 1999.

 

 

I've already disproven that.

 

I don't recall that. Could you refresh my memory. Or just name 5 more over heels in 99.

 

He popped a buyrate...when?

He popped an audience...when?

He popped TV ratings...when?

Hell, WCW did worse in 2000 than they did in 1999 with JJ as the "top guy".

 

When did anyone do that in WCW in 2000? Hogan couldn't save WCW in 00. Nobody could have. It's not Jarrett's fault. He was one of the few fresh things in WCW at the time.

 

To say Jarrett doesn't create heat and has never done so, shows how much you really know about wrestling in general.

 

Just to clarify i know Jarrett isn't the most over man ever. I know he's not the best World Champ ever. Not even close. I'm not as blind as I pretend to be. But apparently you are.

 

 

 

nah, it's fact. 

 

 

Just saying that adds zero credibility to all of these arguments you are trying to disprove or fight against

 

I was joking.

[Guest MikeSC]

I've already slapped you around for a while. For the sake of others, I'm going to end this now because you've become downright boring.

-=Mike

[Carnival 0]

Exactly as i thought. you are that blind. and know that little. Your welcome for the lesson.

 

And good post RedJed. That one post made more sense than all of MikeSC ramblings about random wrestlers and how heels aren't over.

[Guest MikeSC]

Exactly as i thought. you are that blind. and know that little. Your welcome for the lesson.

 

And good post RedJed. That one post made more sense than all of MikeSC ramblings about random wrestlers and how heels aren't over.

Carnival,

 

I have Jeff never drawing a dime.

 

I have Jeff headlining WCW during its incredible implosion. And he's VERY MUCH to blame since HE was at the top of the card and did no better than having infamously horrible draw Sid in that same spot.

 

I have Jeff headlining a company that STILL can't even get fans to pay to attend shows a few times a month. It's been almost 3 years now.

 

I have Jeff headlining a company that has watched their PPV audience drop like a rock over its existence (toward the end of their weekly PPV experiment, they drew less than 7000 buys a week --- and they drew somewhere in the 10-15,000 range when they debuted).

 

I have Jeff getting "Jeff Jarrett heat" by the fans in his hometown and now in Orlando who are simply sick and tired of him trying to prove that he's one of the big boys.

 

I have Jeff causing unbelievable damage to Raven's character by his going over him and substantial damage to guys like Styles and Daniels by taking the belt from him way too early and dropping a program that seemed to be on the verge of taking off in order to possibly pursue Hogan to do a job for him.

 

I have Jeff killing Monty Brown's character by beating him twice when Brown seemed to be one of the few guys TNA had who had a semblance of heat. Hell, Nash at least let GB have some months before killing his lame-ass gimmick.

 

I have Jeff dragging in has-beens who had been anti-draws for YEARS, simply so he could go over some "name" talent while keeping guys who could provide an ACTUAL alternative to the WWF far removed from possible title consideration.

 

I have Jeff taking a company that was once pretty entertaining except for some bad main events and making the entire company a bland clone of the WWE, but with less talented workers and less gifted talkers.

 

I have Jeff being given more chances in the WWF than Billy Gunn and getting over about as well in the time frame he was there.

 

I have Jeff being completely unover in his first WCW stint, in spite of WCW's attempts to push him for that year and a half.

 

You, on the other hand, have an irrational crush.

-=Mike

[Carnival 0]

Mike,

 

I agree on all those points, except these.

 

I have Jeff never drawing a dime.

 

He draws my money. As far as a major draw...no he isn't.

 

I have Jeff getting "Jeff Jarrett heat" by the fans in his hometown and now in Orlando who are simply sick and tired of him trying to prove that he's one of the big boys.

 

I think he gets very real heel heat.

 

I agree to disagree on those points.

I concede on the other points.

 

It was fun while it lasted Mike. You're MOSTLY right.

 

Jarrett does more damage than good. As far as being a heatless jobber, thats wrong.

 

Anyways, good fight. I could go longer, but obviously you tire of this. I never tire of defending THE TRUTH ABOUT JEFF JARRETT!

 

After saying that, Mike...I give.

 

*taps out*