Possible mlb players strike

[Guest Smues]

So there's talk of a strike in August. Just my fucking luck they decide to strike the year I finally get tickets to go to atlanta and see my braves (and the games are all in september, after the strike would start). I swear if they do strike this year Baseball has lost me for life, they need to realize they hurt the fans more then they do the people they're trying to hurt(dumbfucks like Bud Selig).

[Guest bdolo]

As much as people will want to blame this on bud selig it is by far still more of the players fault.

 

First Selig should not even be the commisioner since he is a former owner.  

2nd, selig wants to start some kind kind of implications leading towards a salary cap in the future.

 

But of course the players being greedy do not want the cap and will strike if anything that even resembles a salary cap.

 

You may ask why does baseball need the cap? Well becasue people are not going to keep watching baseball if it is the same teams at the top constanly, even if there is around a 10 teams that have a devout following of fans, it is still below average compared to basketball and football which have more of 20 to 25 teams that make tons of money.

 

Lets put this into perspective.  If you are a fan of the following teams what it the chance they win a world series in the next five years: Kansas city, minnesota, milwaukee, florida, montreal, pittsburg, tampa bay, anaheim, colorado,

the chance are almost impossible.

 

But in the nba and nfl were there are caps there is always more fans becasue things can turn around a lot quicker for a team with caps in place

 

examples:  NBA:  New jeresy and Bston in the eastern finals and not making the playoffs last year

 

Nfl:  New England winning a super bowl this year.

 

For fuck sake, baseball needs a salry cap so I do not have to watch the fucking yankess every year in the WS, it is good for NY fans, but baseball is played other places then New york, and if the players are to fucking greedy to accept that they can fuck themselves.  If they do strike they will lose more money than if they don't.  Becasue if there is another strike baseball will lose a lot of fans and a in turn a lot of money.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

For some reason and maybe because it's so early in the season, I have no interest in baseball this year. If they do strike it's going to be even harder to come back than the last time. The fans will be twice as bitter and I don't see a feel-good story like Cal Ripken Jr.'s games-played streak coming along to bring the fans back. With ticket prices going higher every year, the aforementioned disparity in team salaries getting worse and a possibly impending strike or even the talk of a strike I see MLB in big trouble.

[Guest]

In this era of the greedy players like a-rod and griffey making 150 million dollars, I cannot see how grown mken can bitch about how much they make.  Seriously, the arguement is just not there.  No matter how big a fan I am of baseball, and yes, it is my favorite sport and I love the mets, if they strike this year its gonna be real hard to get me back as a viewer just on principal alone.

 

--Rob

[Guest alkeiper]

If you are a fan of the following teams what it the chance they win a world series in the next five years: Kansas city, minnesota, milwaukee, florida, montreal, pittsburg, tampa bay, anaheim, colorado

 

Well, not good because logically you're distributing 5 championships among 30 teams.  If baseball had perfect parity, a team would win once every 30 years.

 

Kansas City- Maybe if they stopped throwing money at Chuck Knoblauch and Roberto Hernandez.  Seriously, cut those two guys and you can afford John Smoltz.

 

Minnesota- I'd say they have as good a chance as a lot of other teams at winning a WS this year.

 

Milwaukee- They're problems go far beyond economics.  Maybe if they didn't take the meager money they had and threw it like mediocre players like Jeffrey Hammonds, they could compete.

 

Florida- With the guy that destroyed Montreal baseball at the helm?  Florida has no interest in winning.

 

Montreal- Again, if you don't even promote the team or provide them some kind of radio coverage, how do you expect them to draw money.  Baseball gives them no promotion and then says "Well Montreal's a hockey town anyway."  Bullshit.

 

Pittsburgh- Again, throwing money at Kevin Young, Derek Bell, et al.  Young costs $6 Million, Bell cost $4.5 million.  That's $10 million they could've used to sign a good player.

 

Tampa Bay- Still a young team.  Give them time.

 

Anaheim- Closer then you might think.  They may not win a World Series, but they're competetive.

 

Colorado- Does a team that gave Mike Hampton $120 million really benefit from a salary cap?

 

First Selig should not even be the commisioner since he is a former owner.  

2nd, selig wants to start some kind kind of implications leading towards a salary cap in the future.

 

The commissioner is the owner's represenative.  They chose him, and he is the voice of the owners.

 

Second, what is the motive behind the salary cap.  Do you really think they care about competitive balance.  Of course not.  They care about their pocketbooks.  The salary cap is a way to control costs, period.  Do you really think if salaries were lower tickets would cost less?  

 

BASIC ECONOMICS.  Ticket prices are set to produce maximum revenue.  Simple as that.  Players could get paid minimum wage and you'd still pay the same to get into a ballgame.  The only difference is that instead of the money going to the millionaire player who works his ass off to stay in shape and perform, it goes to the billionaire owner who just laid off 30,000 people because his stockholders wanted more profits.

 

But of course the players being greedy do not want the cap and will strike if anything that even resembles a salary cap.

 

Of course not.  It's called CAPITALISM.  And the owners aren't greedy?

 

If they do strike they will lose more money than if they don't.

 

That's the idea of a strike.  They strike, the owners lose money and are forced to accept conditions less favorable to them.  It happens in every business.

 

For fuck sake, baseball needs a salry cap so I do not have to watch the fucking yankess every year in the WS, it is good for NY fans, but baseball is played other places then New york, and if the players are to fucking greedy to accept that they can fuck themselves.

 

Like I noted before, these small market clubs cry boo-hoo about how they can't afford players and then they blow money on Roberto Hernandez.  They can't even properly spend the money they have now.  A salary cap won't make clueless management any smarter.

 

Seriously, since when did bad franchises suddenly become a new epidemic?  The Senators stunk in the Aughts, the Browns were perrenial losers, the Phillies once lost 100 games 5 years in a row.  A salary cap?  No thank you.  I LIKE the way baseball teams have the same players every year.  I LIKE looking at the Cardinals line-up knowing that Drew, Pujols, and Edmonds will bat back-to-back-to-back the next 3-4 years.

 

But in the nba and nfl were there are caps there is always more fans becasue things can turn around a lot quicker for a team with caps in place

 

So on one hand we bitch at baseball cause the Yankees keep winning, but on the other hand we praise basketball.  I'm sick of the Lakers winning.  But they already have a salary cap.  Why isn't it working?

[Guest Some Guy]

For all those people who claim that small market teams can't compete, I give you Oakland the last few years, Seatle, Minnesota, Florida, Montreal, Pit, Anaheim, all those teams are "small marhet and all field a competitive team.  And big payrolls don't automatically equal a WS win, look at Boston and LA the last few years.

 

The players make enough, the owners make enough what the fuck do they need to agree on, it's a win-win situation.  Derek fucking Bell is making $9 Million dollars to do nothing, Tony Clark is making $5 million to hit .200 (that seems to be changing lately, hopefully).  The leuge minimun salary is $200,000 dollars for rookies and $250,000 for veterans.  The avg salary is well over $1 million a year.  Teh players have nothing to complain about money wise.

The owners need to find good baseball men like Oakland, NY, Sea, etc... did.  Billy Beane, Brian Cashman, and Pat Gillick are the best GMs in the game today and their teams win now and didn't before they got there.  It is no coincidence that the Yanks sucked in the 80s and early 90s and now that Steinbrenner lets baseball people spend his money they win.

 

For further evidence that just spending a lot of money does not equal a WS win lets look at Boston last year compared to this year, granted it's only May.

 

Troy O'Leary $4.5 Mil

Mike Lansing $6 Mil

Dante Bichette $6 Mil

Hideo Nomo $5 Mil

Carl Everett $9 Mil

 

That equalled about a .500 team and a huge and embarassing mess in Boston.

 

This year all those guys are gone and either hurt, retired, released or playing poorly again.

 

This year the Sox have:

 

John Burkett $5 Mil (4-0)

Johnny Damon $8 Mil (batting abot .325 and playint great CF)

Rickey Henderson $350,000 (Hitting .280 and playing good LF)

Carlos Baerga $1 Mil (playin well off the bench)

Dustin Hermanson $5 Mil (injured)

Rey Sanchez $1 Mil (hitting .330 and playing Gold Glove 2B)

 

This has equalled the best record in Baseball and has cost less than last year's team.

It's not how much you spend it's how you spend it.

[Guest DrTom]

Let them strike.  Maybe they'll finally realize that the average fan will only take so much of millionaire crybabies pissing all over him.  They also need to realize that there isn't a Cal Ripken to save the game post-strike this time, like there was in 1995.  

 

Personally, I'm in favor of a salary cap, but I think baseball also needs true revenue sharing, as well as a minimum salary just to avoid having owners artifically keep salaries down to line their own pockets.

[Guest alkeiper]

The players make enough, the owners make enough what the fuck do they need to agree on

 

First off, revenue sharing.  Personally, I like the 50% idea, where 50% of a team's revenue goes into a pool.  The logic is that since the visiting team provides half the players, then its only fair that they get half the money.

 

Second, there's stuff like arbitration, and how long until players reach free agency.  A lot of complicated issues to deal with.

 

Then there's contraction.  The payers don't want it obviously because it would eliminate 60 jobs.  And expanding rosters wouldn't work because they would only be league minimum wage roles.

 

Maybe they'll finally realize that the average fan will only take so much of millionaire crybabies pissing all over him.

 

How exactly are they pissing on us?  By demanding more money?  We wouldn't pay any less for tickets if they didn't.

 

Personally, I'm in favor of a salary cap, but I think baseball also needs true revenue sharing, as well as a minimum salary just to avoid having owners artifically keep salaries down to line their own pockets.

 

Agreed.  Yes, small market teams can compete, but they should try and level the playing field somewhat.  I still don't like the salary cap though.

[Guest EUX4life]

the strike isn't about a salary cap though.  it's about the owners being able to shut down teams, someone said it befoer, contraction.  the players are worried that they might be out of jobs because an owner doesn't feel like being an owner anymore.  like if montreal and minnessota were shut down last year, that's fifty players and who knows how many coaches and others would be out of jobs.  job security is something to fight for, but a strike would just ruin everything.  it sucks too, my red sox are on the hottest streak i've ever seen them on and are playoff bound and something like this comes and has the potential to ruin it.

[Guest Some Guy]

Tony Clark is the top Union player guy in the A.L. so he has a lot of stroke, with the Sox going this well he may be more reluctant to want a strike.

[Guest MaxPower27]

I think that the problem is that even if, say KC got the $$ to throw at Smoltz or another "big money" free agent, Smoltz wouldn't want to go to KC due to the fact that they don't win. Would John Smoltz really want to be the only star on a team that wins 60-75 games a year? Do you actually think that Jason Giambi would turn down offers fro NY to go to Tampa Bay? Probably not.

 

Oh, and the D-Rays aren't just young, they suck. They have good young pitching, but will fall under the same thing that MTL had a few years back, losing all it's players to free agency, and not being able to afford them when contracts are up.

[Guest alkeiper]

the strike isn't about a salary cap though.  it's about the owners being able to shut down teams

 

Honestly, there's a strike or lock out every time the Owners-Players agreement expires.  They're playing without a contract now.  And the whole strike issue has been looming since last year.

 

I think that the problem is that even if, say KC got the $$ to throw at Smoltz or another "big money" free agent, Smoltz wouldn't want to go to KC due to the fact that they don't win. Would John Smoltz really want to be the only star on a team that wins 60-75 games a year? Do you actually think that Jason Giambi would turn down offers fro NY to go to Tampa Bay? Probably not.

 

The point is that small-market teams waste money.  And if Jason Giambi would run off and join The Evil Empire, god knows what else he would join.

 

Oh, and the D-Rays aren't just young, they suck. They have good young pitching, but will fall under the same thing that MTL had a few years back, losing all it's players to free agency, and not being able to afford them when contracts are up.

 

Sure they suck, because they're a poorly run franchise.  But who on that team really looks like a blue chip player in the future?  Maybe Toby Hall, but that's it.

[Guest MaxPower27]

Yeah but small market teams "waste money" because they need to get asses in their seats somehow, and they sure aren't going to win any big name players.

 

Tampa has some decent pitching, and Jay Tyner could be a good pickup.

[Guest alkeiper]

Yeah but small market teams "waste money" because they need to get asses in their seats somehow, and they sure aren't going to win any big name players.

 

I don't think Derek Bell helped attendance at PNC Park any.  Same with Roberto Hernandez.  The point is teams could pick up players of equal talent for much cheaper.  Then they win games, which also draws fans.

 

Tampa has some decent pitching, and Jay Tyner could be a good pickup.

 

Maybe as a pinch runner.  Tyner's never hit a home run in his professional career.  Ben Grieve might be a star though.  As for the pitchers, its always hard to tell how they'll develop.  Just look at Rick Ankiel.  I do think Joe Kennedy has real potential though.

[Guest MaxPower27]

Yeah but small market teams "waste money" because they need to get asses in their seats somehow, and they sure aren't going to win any big name players.

 

I don't think Derek Bell helped attendance at PNC Park any.  Same with Roberto Hernandez.  The point is teams could pick up players of equal talent for much cheaper.  Then they win games, which also draws fans.

 

That may be true, but their still picking up less quality players than other teams, and aren't getting the bog name players that cause you to win and fill the stadium

 

Tampa has some decent pitching, and Jay Tyner could be a good pickup.

 

Maybe as a pinch runner.  Tyner's never hit a home run in his professional career.  

 

Who cares about homeruns? He can hit the ball, he has a decent arm, and he can flat out fly. Pinch-runner? yeah. but a good player, yeah. Homeruns don't win championships, ask Bonds and Sosa.

Yeah but small market teams "waste money" because they need to get asses in their seats somehow, and they sure aren't going to win any big name players.

 

I don't think Derek Bell helped attendance at PNC Park any.  Same with Roberto Hernandez.  The point is teams could pick up players of equal talent for much cheaper.  Then they win games, which also draws fans.

 

That may be true, but their still picking up less quality players than other teams, and aren't getting the bog name players that cause you to win and fill the stadium

 

Tampa has some decent pitching, and Jay Tyner could be a good pickup.

 

Maybe as a pinch runner.  Tyner's never hit a home run in his professional career.  

 

Who cares about homeruns? He can hit the ball, he has a decent arm, and he can flat out fly. Pinch-runner? yeah. but a good player, yeah. Homeruns don't win championships, ask Bonds and Sosa.

[Guest alkeiper]

Who cares about homeruns? He can hit the ball, he has a decent arm, and he can flat out fly. Pinch-runner? yeah. but a good player, yeah. Homeruns don't win championships, ask Bonds and Sosa.

 

Neither do .228 slap hitters.  The problem is that when you CAN't hit a home run, the outfield can play shallow on you and cut down your chances of blooping the ball in.  He doesn't get on base enough to be a quality lead-off hitter.

 

That may be true, but their still picking up less quality players than other teams, and aren't getting the big name players that cause you to win and fill the stadium

 

Fair point on attracting talent.  When you can't attract quality free agents, your next alternative is the farm system.  Pour your money there, let the kids develop, and soon you can have a quality team, for cheap.  Much like the Oakland A's, and in the future, the San Diego Padres.  Then when the kids develop, you get your team up to .500, and you tell that big free agent that his talent will put your team over the top.

[Guest]

word up keiper, thats why your the only person on here that fucks with me on fantasy baseball, both leagues.

 

--Rob

[Guest Some Guy]

I heard John Kruk on the Best Damn Sports Show today saying "it's not about the money.  It's about Free Agency and players being able to play where they want."  Uhhhhhhhhhh John guess what?  There is free agency and players can play where ever they want when their previous contract runs out.  Why don't you just say the truth, greedy players won't play where they "want" because those teams can't afford them.  It's not my, nor the owners fault that a free agent can't get past his ego and greed and play where he "wants to".

 

I think that KC should have tried to get Rickey Henderson, with all the records he has and is breaking it might have drawn a few extra people.  Knaublach is a laughing stock to Baseball fans and Herandez isn't exactly a good closer.  If your going to get quasi-talented players past their primes at least get ones with better name recognition.

[Guest MaxPower27]

The problem with pouring all your money into a farm ststem is that you get ripped off on trades by other clubs, who offer you "big names" for prospects. Then, the big name gets hurt, and your younger guys are on another team. See: Ken Griffey Jr. trade. The Reds prospects are burning it up, whilst Griffey is hurt.

 

Even then, when your prospects become big names, then you can't afford them due to free agency, so the cycle starts over. I wish that more players would stay with their teams. I would, seriously. I would stay with my team, that's how you get respect in the league, not by leaving town everytime your contract's up.

 

Oh, and why was Giambi such a prized free agent? I think that he's overrated, and the only reason that the Yanks got him was because they knew that he could beat them.

[Guest]

the reds deserve what they got in girrfey, yeah he hits home runs and plays the fielf, but he is a greedy player.  He will never win a championship because of it.  Example: The bases are loaded, down by 3 in the 9th, griffey come up, for some stupid reason the oppsing defense all shifts right (haha).  Do you know what he would do?  Not pull a little blooper to left, NO, he would try to hit a  home run.  Fuck griffey he is a piece of shit.

 

--Rob

[Guest alkeiper]

The problem with pouring all your money into a farm ststem is that you get ripped off on trades by other clubs, who offer you "big names" for prospects. Then, the big name gets hurt, and your younger guys are on another team. See: Ken Griffey Jr. trade. The Reds prospects are burning it up, whilst Griffey is hurt.

 

So you don't trade for the big name.  You make your own big names.  Carlos Pena puts up his first 40 homer season and everybody forgets that Giambi fellow.

 

Even then, when your prospects become big names, then you can't afford them due to free agency, so the cycle starts over.

 

Here's the secret.  When your players reach free agency, they're around 30 years old and unlikely to get any better.  And when you lose the free agent, you recieve draft picks in return, which you use to build up more star players.  Look at Oakland.  They have SEVEN first and second round picks this year.  Sure, losing Giambi may hurt them this year, but they'll get through it just fine in the long run.

 

Oh, and why was Giambi such a prized free agent?

 

Because the last two years he hit .333 and .342, while playing in one of the tougher hitter's parks in baseball.  Last year he led the league in OBP, slugging percentage, doubles, and walks.

 

the reds deserve what they got in girrfey, yeah he hits home runs and plays the fielf, but he is a greedy player.  He will never win a championship because of it.  Example: The bases are loaded, down by 3 in the 9th, griffey come up, for some stupid reason the oppsing defense all shifts right (haha).  Do you know what he would do?  Not pull a little blooper to left, NO, he would try to hit a  home run.  Fuck griffey he is a piece of shit.

 

Do you really have any documentation on that, or is that just an assumption?  That's why I will spank your ass in fantasy baseball, because while you're looking at his supposed greed and whining, I see a career .566 slugging average and think he might actually be useful.

[Guest]

come on kieper, he is greedy,  but greed makes for some real good fantasy baseball players.  But in a real life, if I was a manager I wouldn;t want him, for his price tag you could snag 4 young all star callibre team players, or a real fuckin good pitcher.  I don;t think you will spank me in fantasy baseball, especuially not in the sandbox league, that team is almost untouchable, I just fuck around with the limitations thats why I lost a few times.

 

--Rob

[Guest Some Guy]

Griffey is similar to most power hitters.  He has an uppercut swing, although no wher near as pronounced as Mo Vaugn's or Sosa's and he tries to pull the ball out of the park.  So pitchers try to pitch him low and away hoping that he'll get himself out by pulling a ground ball to the 2B or 1B.  If you watch Derek Lowe pitch he does that to guys all the time, when they should be trying to bloop singles the other way to manufacture runs they try to pull the ball over the fence and hit weak grounders to the infielder.  Look at what Ichiro does, granted he is wicked fast but his approach id very successful against almost all picthers.  He just slaps at the ball and runs his ass off.

 

Sure Griffey is greedy but he did take less than market value to go to the Reds and offer to defer some of his contract so they could resign Larkin.  Griffey needs to find a way to stay healthy, he has gotten hurt a lot in his carrer, he broke his wrist and leg (I think) running into walls, he's had numerous hamstring and knee problems and by his own admission he doesn't lift weights at all.  His teammates seem to dislike him and so do the fans in Cincy.  He seems to haev gotten lazy and be riding on his past acomplishments, rather than busting his ass to make new ones.

 

I think $17 Mil for Giambi is a bit much, considering he sucks as a 1B and has a long history of hamstring problems, I also think that $20 Mil for Manny is too much for much the same reasons, although Manny is a better and more productive hitter.  

 

Al, Carlos Pena is not an Oakland minor leaugue guy they got him form Texas in the offseason, who drafted him out of Northeastern here in Boston.  Plus he's batting about .220 right now and hasn't had a RBI in at least a week.  He needs to shorten and adjust his swing if he wants to be productive in MLB.  I've watched him in the 6 Bos/Oak games this year and have been unimpressed with his hitting, his defense is great though.  Pena's swing is long and has a sharp uppercut, causing him to pop out, ground out, and strike out a lot.  He is also a little over anxious at the plate which is understandable for a rookie in his early 20s.

[Guest alkeiper]

Pena will struggle as he adjusts, but in time he should be alright.  He posted terrific minor league numbers in the Texas Farm System.

[Guest Some Guy]

I think he will adjust and be very productive in time.  I was just pointing out what I saw were his problems and they are typical and hard habbits to break, especially when he hit 7 HRs in the first 3 weeks of the season.  In all the interviews I've heard him in in the last 2 weeks he seems like a good guy and pretty smart, I expext him to get good and sign with Boston eventually.

[Guest]

dude griffey took like 5 million less or something, whats 5 million out of 100 million.  Thats th same bullshit reason why they are striking, fuckin greedy bastards.  IT'S A FUCKIN GAME

 

--Rob

[Guest alkeiper]

I'm tired of billionaire owners lying about their finances and complaining when the public won't give them stadiums.  At least Griffey never threatened to shut down his baseball team unless the state built him a brand new stadium from which he would reep the profits.

[Guest]

I wish they would just use a mediator instead of trying to negotiate with each other and the mediator do whats best. But that will never happen.

[Guest alkeiper]

You're thinking of an arbitrator.

[Guest]

Yeah I was... sorry lol.