For a slight change in topic

[Guest J*ingus]

The former All Japan heavyweights get a lot of discussion on this board, but what about the traditional New Japan mainstays of the 90's?  How would you guys rate the work of:

 

Mutoh

Chono

Hashimoto

Tenzan

Kojima

Nagata

whoever else I left out

[Guest Stuart]

>> Mutoh <<

 

Up until some point I can't name in 1995 or 1996, Muto (without the paint) was a great, great worker. Then he realized he didn't have to try hard much, so became the lazy underachiever we've come to know him as. He also had the injuries that slowed him. He worked hard for a while last year, with the Williams match being an example, but right now... well, I'd rather watch the early 2000 Muto more than the current one.

 

>> Chono <<

 

Kind of similar to Muto, but his deterioration was prompted more by the bad injury, which forced him to become "black" and develop his charisma more. He didn't do much at all from 1995 onwards in terms of great matches, but had some choice ones with Koshinaka. Oddly enough, in the last year, despite people saying "he's worse than ever", Chono has been better than he was for several years prior to it, largely I guess because he's in a position of power now and has a lot on his shoulders. His G1 Climax work I found inspiring, especially his 26 minute match with Nishimura, which wasn't great, but I thought good, and you could see him straining to have a good match, even bridging. He dragged Giant Silva along to some good matches in the G1 Tag League, really carrying his half. He won't perform like this every week, but I'd rather watch him than "world's greatest wrestler" Muto right now.

 

>> Hashimoto <<

 

He's always been a super worker, but doesn't get as much love as his other muskateers. Most people call him fat and boring, saying he has no moves. Yeah, he's fat, yeah he doesn't have many moves, but he uses what he has well. He was New Japan's Kawada, only obviously not as good, using the less is more belief. He had some awesome matches. The 12 minute match against Takada, even though it was so short, was what a title match is all about. I miss him in NJ, and can only hope this ZERO-ONE thing leads to Shin Ishingun down the road. Hashimoto, Otani, Tanaka, Hoshikawa, Takaiwa would add some needed depth to the NJ roster.

 

>> Tenzan <<

 

"I don't get the Tenzan love" - Several people. :-)

 

 

"I don't get the Tenzan hate" - ME! :-)

 

I've watched nearly every Tenzan match of the last two years, and comparing him now to a few years ago, when he wasn't really good at all (people thought he'd win IWGP Title in '97 and ranked it alongside Sasaki (who eventually got the nod) winning it in terms of how bad it'd be). Tenzan proved against the diabolical Yasuda in March how good he is at putting a match together, especially working around the weaknesses of such a stiff, and got more out of Yasuda than everyone not named Nagata has recently. And Yasuda works a totally different style to Tenzan. I don't know how many others have, but I watched the complete unedited G1 Climax 2001 shows, and Tenzan edged past Liger, and was ahead of Kojima, Muto, Chono, Nishimura, Nagata (but he had a far worse group) for how many good matches he had. Not bad for a "bad worker". Also, despite how big and brutish he is, he isn't selfish. His matches with Nishimura and other underdogs, he's played the bully, but given great near falls and occasionally jobbed to Nishimura to make the fans believe Nishimura can pin him. Tenzan also carried Nak and Yoshie (twice) further than any other wrestler in New Japan, except Nagata this February (with Nak, but Nak is better now than he was last June), than anyone in New Japan history. Tenzan rules, I love watching him wrestle, and I hope he wins either the G1 Climax or IWGP Heavyweight Title in the next year.

 

>> Kojima <<

 

He rocks and showed it very early in his career. I saw some of his young lion work and he was already showing the fire and talent then, just obviously not as good as recently. He's so charismatic, his facial expressions are great. He and Tenzan developed a formula where they could carry almost any team, as long as the match was worked in their formula. However, when the match strayed from their formula, they still had some excellent matches (vs. Kawada/Nagai, vs. Barton/Steele) in which they were the better team. I was kind of sad that Kojima left NJ, even though almost everyone else wasn't. Maybe when seeing AJ lineups now ("Kojima/Naniwa/Okumura vs. Arashi/Abby/Jimmy Yang"), they see why some people weren't thrilled by the split (although I couldn't care less about Muto and Ka Shin leaving now). Also, Kojima is getting really fat. He's packed on the pounds, hopefully it won't get worse, but he's still mobile right now.

 

>> Nagata <<

 

He roooooooooooooooocks.

 

He's so versatile. He showed that against Yasuda and Fujita, when he did that total PRIDE style and carried both guys quite far. I actually thought Fujita vs. Nagata was better than Hashimoto vs. Ogawa from 4/00, when Hash went nuts and carried that stiff to such a match, even though his career was being buried as a result. Nagata is a great champion, even though he's not hugely over yet, due to the 12/31 debacle, but hopefully he'll have a long reign with good matches, which will get him over because of his effort.

 

>> whoever else I left out <<

 

YOU WANT A NJ ROSTER ANALYSIS?

 

YOU CAN'T HANDLE... okay, here's a briefish one since I'm bored.

 

Kensuke Sasaki - He was a very good young lion as Hase's tag partner, but the Hell Raiser era killed his potential. He improved a bit in '97, but was such a weak and average champion. He improved again in 2000, having some good G1 matches, but the Kawada match really lit a spark, as his work ethic rose tenfold after that. Of course, now that he'd finally gotten good, he got buried at the Osaka Dome, then did the Kenshooty Sasaki gimmick for a while. Having watched some of the recent stuff, where he's ousted most of the shoot nonsense from his moveset, he looks really good, very mobile. He even forward rolls to make tags now.

 

Manabu Nakanishi - This guy used to suck so bad. He was okay as Kojima's tag partner, but when he got the big push in 1999, took on the "Wild Beast" persona and was horrible, exposing the business by stomping the mat, shaking his arms all the time, etc. He got even worse in 2000, with some dismal performances later in the year, although Kojima and Iizuka got good matches out of him during the "AMAZING" series. He got a little better in early 2001, but sucked. In May, which was maybe not so coincidentally when his "protector", Riki Choshu, lost power, he ousted most of the goofiness and started working harder. This was around the time Tenzan carried him on BOSJ tour climax, also several good tags with Yoshie as his partner. He kind of degenerated again in the G1, although had a good match with Nagata. After that, it was mostly uphill. The new Gotch gimmick is working wonders, because he's far more serious now, and is using more suplexes and submissions. He's just better in general and decent, very, very carryable, as proven by Nagata on 2/1, when they had an excellent match. Hopefully he can improve more, but right now he's no longer a real handicap on matches.

 

Tatsumi Fujinami - He used to be a great worker, but is about 48 now. He's still in great shape for someone his age, but except on certain occasions, is mostly in the way. He should retire before he starts embarrassing himself.

 

Tadao Yasuda - Hmm, one of the bottom few workers in New Japan. I used to be a big Yasuda mark, because he wasn't good, but the oaf that never wins gimmick was great. Then he did the shoot thing and *whooosh*...

 

Shiro Koshinaka - The most underrated heavyweight of the 1990's. He was New Japan's best heavyweight for several years after Hase left, but age and injuries have caught up to him and he's slowed down now. Can still go on occasion, but is mainly a solid midcard guy now.

 

Takashi Iizuka - While Koshinaka was the most underrated of the 90's, Iizuka is one of the most underrated of the last few years. Of course, because of Nagai-Ki's carelessness throwing dangerous kicks on 6/6/01, Iizuka has been very, very seriously injured, enough so that when he returns, he'll have been out over a year. Great technician, very good with sequences, countering and chaining moves together. Some of his exchanges with Nagata in their matches were a thing of beauty. Also had good matches with Tenzan, despite their styles possibly clashing, and was involved in that tag match in 12/00 that everyone loves. Can't wait to see him back, they could really use him right now.

 

Osamu Nishimura - Dory Funk Jr. Jr. I'll probably get heat for this, but I WAAAY prefer him to Dory, who I don't like much (Terry on the other hand...). He's the king of old style matwork now and will TAKE HIS TIME (tm Nishimura), not letting anyone rush him. The 2001 G1 was his breakout, as he had excellent matches with Tenzan, Kojima, Liger (30:00 draw) and a way better than expected marathon with Chono. After that he got the tag title push, but then got push back down the card a bit. Now, he and Nakanishi are #1 contenders for the tag belts, so he should get a push on the upcoming tour.

 

Junji Hirata - He had his moments, but will be remember as just "that guy" without the mask. The Super Strong Machine gimmick should be remembered more though, as it was part of the famous Ishingun.

 

Yutaka Yoshie - Nakanishi's partner in crime. :-). This guy made so little progress that he was a young lion for almost 6 years. They finally sent him away in late 1999 and brought him back at the Tokyo Dome in April '00, then Choshu pushed him like crazy. Problem was, Yoshie bulked up the wrong way, getting fat and uncoordinated. His push was unbearable, because he went over both Tenzan and Kojima in singles matches in 2000. Choshu's demise as booker was judgment day for Yoshie, who was quickly de-pushed, had the hair dye taken away, and was made into a more generic undercarder. They brought him back up a bit lately. He's still not good, but if you watch him in 2000 compared to now he's WAAAAY better and quite passable now, mainly in tags.

 

Super J - Ehh... he showed flashes, but mostly dull and boring.

 

Kenzo Suzuki - KENZO! The worst New Japan rookie ever... maybe. They rushed him into the ring and it showed, because he was awful. However, 2001 was a different story, as he took huge strides. Now, I dig watching Kenzo and the big man moveset. He shows a lot of fire and keeps getting better. He's kind of outclassed by his partner, but Kings of the Hill/Tanaken have a big future.

 

Hiroshi Tanahashi - Scary good prospect. He shows great maturity and was busting out the good matwork against Nagata at Korakuen in January. Still a shade green, but shedding most of it off. You just know he's going to be a big name down the line. One thing I'm worried about is that he has a big amateur background, so Inoki may have his eyes on Tanahashi for obvious reasons. There have already been hints, with Tanahashi facing Murakami in singles and tags. However, since the 12/31 disaster, NJ guys have been kept far away from PRIDE.

 

Blue Wolf - He should be something down the line. Too early to tell. Has the same big man brute aura as Tenzan, and those two should probably be teamed at some point. Has improved a lot since debuting. The first Mongolian in many years in Japan.

 

Scott Norton - The lowest form of pro wrestler. Utter tripe, selfish, no-selling piece of garbage. At least he's jobbing a lot now.

 

Giant Silva - Sucks, but okay at times for a giant. Not looked good lately. Almost Ganso bombed Goto, and along with Singh, dragged Nagata and Nakanishi to not just their worst tag match, but worst matches, period, ever in March. At least the right team won on that day.

 

Giant Singh - Worse than Norton. Maybe the worst wrestler on earth.

 

Hiro Saito - Underrated, fun old style wrestler. King Senton, he doesn't have many moves, but can do things. I dig Hiro, because he still tries, but never gets any important wins.

 

Tatsutoshi Goto - Baaaaaad, but has looked kind of okay in tags recently. This is just because everyone has been trying harder since the jumps.

 

Naoya Ogawa - Fuck him.

[Guest J*ingus]

>> Chono <<

 

Kind of similar to Muto, but his deterioration was prompted more by the bad injury, which forced him to become "black" and develop his charisma more. He didn't do much at all from 1995 onwards in terms of great matches, but had some choice ones with Koshinaka. Oddly enough, in the last year, despite people saying "he's worse than ever", Chono has been better than he was for several years prior to it, largely I guess because he's in a position of power now and has a lot on his shoulders. His G1 Climax work I found inspiring, especially his 26 minute match with Nishimura, which wasn't great, but I thought good, and you could see him straining to have a good match, even bridging. He dragged Giant Silva along to some good matches in the G1 Tag League, really carrying his half. He won't perform like this every week, but I'd rather watch him than "world's greatest wrestler" Muto right now.

It's funny you should mention that, because I was just thinking about it.  Pre-"black" Chono tends to have a kinda lame look, like a Kawada Lite.  But ever since he adopted the World's Best Wrestling Attire, his workrate seemed to go into the toilet.  Was there ever a time when the planets aligned perfectly & he had both?  I'm trying to collect some good Chono matches from the Black period, around 96-97 since Highspots has those 6-hour TV blocks from that period going cheap.

[Guest Stuart]

1996 may have been the best mix. He had fully developed his charisma and could still go pretty well. But there was never a time where he had maximum workrate and charisma. If he had both of them, he'd be one of the best wrestlers of all time. Instead, he's just a legend for his hard work over the years and what he's given for New Japan.