Hail tony blair?

[Guest]

<I've heard him, yeah, and you're right. I like him because he's sincerely grieved by death. He was the same way over Bosnia.>

 

HA!

 

Sorry Marney but if there's one thing is can't stand is American right wingers (or anyone else for that matter) saying how wonderful and compassinate Blair, the man is a gutless coward with no morals or prinicbles what so ever.

 

Yes Blair is doing an awfully good job (or was) at selling the War on Terror (although if you had heard how his supporters in the media were protraying him as a restraining infulence on Bush you would have been blood red) thte fact is that words are easy especially to Tony Blair. He still refuses to crack down on Islamists in the UK (despite France begging us to do somethng about them for years), nor tackle to growing insularity in our muslim population caused by the offical state dogman of multiculturalism pursed with apporpiate Stalinist zeal of a former CND member.

 

Blair is awfully good at denoucing tyrants from afar but when it comes to the nitty-gritty he gos all weak at the kness. Take the IRA, these are the really deal, Al'Queada compared to these guys are amuaters who struck it lucky (actually Al'Queada ARE a bunch of amuaters who struck lucky), there is no doubt that the IRA is involed in an international network of terrorism giving their expertise to the likes of ETA and Colobumian sepratists. The IRA have twice tried to assanite the British Prime Minister and his/her entire government, once by placing a bomb at her hotel and then actually launching a MORTAR at 10 Downing Street, they also have killed thousands of people in Ulster but more importantly has killed dozens on the mainland. So what does Blair do when confronted with this evil terrorist organistation that might target him personally? Well let's list them:

 

1) Releases all their prisioners

2) Pulls the amry out of Ulster

3) Dismantles Special Branch (the best anti-terrorist squad in the world) and reforms the RUC leaving it accountable to a party political board with Sinn Feiners on it

4) Puts the RUC and the IRA on par by proposing that all RUC officers facing murder charges be given amnesty at the same time the IRA's murders are

5) Is going to give IRA men on the run amnesty having promise not to in the refurendum

6) Abandons working class areas in both communities to terrorist gang land rule including shootings and punishment beatings

7) Banned practically all Orange Matches because they "offend" Sinn Fein (these are the same matches that happen without incident in Eire)

8) Oversees the IRA's CURRENT Head of Staff becoming Ulster's Education minister.

 

And all of this were given when the IRA is still operational, still recuriting, still buing new weapons and save two dumps being destroyed (of which its belived the whereabouts were already known to the Eire Police) there has been NO decommisioning.

 

Now I know we had to negioate with Sinn Fein but come on we were negoationating from a position of strength, they had surrender, they were being beaten and yet we roll back and give them every fucking thing and make our fellow countrymen (those that unlike the facist IRA and the pathetic Irish Free State supported Britian in WW2) look like the bad guys. For christ's sake we haven't even got the IRA to tell us where the disapperead have been buried. And this is the man who's resoulte against terrorism?

 

Sure he cares about death, do you know he cares so much about the 30 dead in Omagh that he is refusing to pay for memorial to them and making the families pay for it themselves? That he cares so much about the dead among the RUC that he through his reforms has practically called it racist for not having enough Catholics in it? And there's me thinking that it was because both the Church and the SDLP refuse to support the police and the IRA will kill anyone for joining in it, wow I'm glad he corrected me on that.

 

The fact is Blair's very good at making promises that invole other people i.e. the Americans bombing Kosovo, the world sorting Africa out, etc, etc but when it comes to unilateral action he has to take to safeguard British lives, culture and traditions that may not be popular with the chattering classes you'll have better look getting Micheal Foot to support it than Blair.

 

Ah yes Africa. Now Mr Blair is very concerned about africa, but of course what he doesn't tell you is that two years ago despite deep reservations held by his Foreign Secertary he went and sanction a whole load of arms to be sold to Rhodesia, and despite loads and loads of evidence that Mugabe was making life hell for the Rhodesians (black and white) he hid behind the EU and the Commonwealth to avoid taking a "Colonial" attiude. You see its far better for people to be killed, for people's property to be destroyed, for Rhodesia the former fruit basket of Africa to reduced to famine than for Britian to act Imperial.

 

Also while he's brilliant at telling the world to give more money to Africa(n Governments) the EU which he's so keen continues through the CAP to stop Africains getting a fair playing field to sell their produce.

 

Now I now it sounds like I dislike him but even I can't deny that he is a true democrat. Hell you can just see that in the way he bullies Gibaltor to do a deal with Spain (which really is Colonial), interfers in the French election and happliy welcomes the Venzulain Coup.

 

What a nice christian man who just happens to take money off porn barons in return for allowing them to run a national paper.

 

William

[Guest fk teale]

the offical state dogman

 

HE'S IN GOVERNMENT??????//

[Guest muzanisa]

Yes Blair is doing an awfully good job (or was) at selling the War on Terror (although if you had heard how his supporters in the media were protraying him as a restraining infulence on Bush you would have been blood red) thte fact is that words are easy especially to Tony Blair. He still refuses to crack down on Islamists in the UK (despite France begging us to do somethng about them for years), nor tackle to growing insularity in our muslim population caused by the offical state dogman of multiculturalism pursed with apporpiate Stalinist zeal of a former CND member.

 

 

So that Government minister saying that Muslims should be less insular last week was a hologram?

 

 

 

 

 

Blair is awfully good at denoucing tyrants from afar but when it comes to the nitty-gritty he gos all weak at the kness. Take the IRA, these are the really deal, Al'Queada compared to these guys are amuaters who struck it lucky (actually Al'Queada ARE a bunch of amuaters who struck lucky), there is no doubt that the IRA is involed in an international network of terrorism giving their expertise to the likes of ETA and Colobumian sepratists. The IRA have twice tried to assanite the British Prime Minister and his/her entire government, once by placing a bomb at her hotel and then actually launching a MORTAR at 10 Downing Street, they also have killed thousands of people in Ulster but more importantly has killed dozens on the mainland. So what does Blair do when confronted with this evil terrorist organistation that might target him personally? Well let's list them:

 

1) Releases all their prisioners

2) Pulls the amry out of Ulster

3) Dismantles Special Branch (the best anti-terrorist squad in the world) and reforms the RUC leaving it accountable to a party political board with Sinn Feiners on it

4) Puts the RUC and the IRA on par by proposing that all RUC officers facing murder charges be given amnesty at the same time the IRA's murders are

5) Is going to give IRA men on the run amnesty having promise not to in the refurendum

6) Abandons working class areas in both communities to terrorist gang land rule including shootings and punishment beatings

7) Banned practically all Orange Matches because they "offend" Sinn Fein (these are the same matches that happen without incident in Eire)

8) Oversees the IRA's CURRENT Head of Staff becoming Ulster's Education minister.

 

And all of this were given when the IRA is still operational, still recuriting, still buing new weapons and save two dumps being destroyed (of which its belived the whereabouts were already known to the Eire Police) there has been NO decommisioning.

 

Now I know we had to negioate with Sinn Fein but come on we were negoationating from a position of strength, they had surrender, they were being beaten and yet we roll back and give them every fucking thing and make our fellow countrymen (those that unlike the facist IRA and the pathetic Irish Free State supported Britian in WW2) look like the bad guys. For christ's sake we haven't even got the IRA to tell us where the disapperead have been buried. And this is the man who's resoulte against terrorism?

 

 

 

There are two sets of idealolgies in Northern Ireland you know. Or do you think Billy "Mad Dog" Adair and his followers are nice reasonable human beings?

Britain could never have "won" in Northern Ireland as just under half the population is Catholic and unless you're advocating genocide which has been done on this board before there would have always been conflict.

Orange marches are okay in the Republic be cause they are in the minority and don't intimidate the local population. Plus Catholics tend to object only when it specifically passes through their area. Most of the contentious marches could be re-routed but year after year they demand that they go on their traditional route.

 

Why are lives on the Mainland worth more than in the North?

Come to that why are Dozens of people on the mainland worth more than the "thousands" in the North? Are you saying that a paddy like me is worth less than a true Brit like yourself?

 

The idea of having a police force in Northern Ireland that is 99% Prosetant is just fucking stupid. Of course the RUC had to go.

 

Are you saying that instead of a negoiated peace that Britain should have held on at all costs? If so you are at odds with the majority of the British, Irish and Northern Irish people. Which as we are living in a democracy makes you wrong.

 

Ah yes Africa. Now Mr Blair is very concerned about africa, but of course what he doesn't tell you is that two years ago despite deep reservations held by his Foreign Secertary he went and sanction a whole load of arms to be sold to Rhodesia, and despite loads and loads of evidence that Mugabe was making life hell for the Rhodesians (black and white) he hid behind the EU and the Commonwealth to avoid taking a "Colonial" attiude. You see its far better for people to be killed, for people's property to be destroyed, for Rhodesia the former fruit basket of Africa to reduced to famine than for Britian to act Imperial.

 

 

Why are you calling Zimbabwe Rhodesia? Do you call Iran Persia; or Sri Lanka Ceylon? Do you live in Tir Nan Og? Unless you can remember back to the early decades of the last century or even the 1950's why the fuck do you care whether Britain is acting in an imperial manner? If you are under 60 you have no memory of Britain having an empire  so why should it Act Imperial?

 

In the French election he denounced a facist standing on a racist ticket, good for him.

Why should Britain hang onto Gibraltar, the Malvinas or any other colony?

 

 

You're right about one thing though Blair is a twat.

[Guest]

<So that Government minister saying that Muslims should be less insular last week was a hologram?>

 

Blair operates from the absurb premise that Britian is a multicultral society, it isn't and never has been. We are one of the most racial "pure" countries in the world with only 15% ethnic minorities (which is dubious as they include fellow Anglo-Saxons like Australians and fellow Celts like the Irish). If we take colour and creed we're even more mono-cultural with over 94% white europeans and 96% christians. We are also not, as Blair and co believe a nation of immigrants, the last real mass wave of immigration was the Normans invading us in 1066 and racial changes since then have been between the two british races: Celts and the Anglo-Saxons.

My point with this is that there is a bedrock in Britian that sharesa common set of Judaeo-Christian values, not particular religous (indeed in England only a minority have been going to church since the Twenties) nor with High Church nature of alot of the Church of England a particularly Protestant country, indeed all you have to do is look at how most Englishmen react to Ulster Protestants to see our true feelings on "miltant" Protestantism.

While we should and need to welcome in immigrants to fact is they these immigrants are ever going to be accepted they must accept parts of our culture, this is pure common sense and if you look at the countries that have had the greatest succes in asimalating large waves of immigrants (France and USA) they have both started from the basis that the immigrant has a responsiblity to accpet some of the indigeous populations customs.

However with the execption of a few outbursts to keep the BNP symapthises among Labour's voters sweet Labour deny this and pretend taht our Liberal Juadeo-Christian society that has proides equality between the races and sexes, tolerance of religions and opinions is somehow on the the same level as a Muslim creed that has no of these things. There still is been no thoughtful, truthful explanation of the need for immigrants but also how the deal with them instead we hide behind the lie of refugee status and a rabid Multicultralism that is nothing but segeration. It leaves each community with its own services, own schools, hospitals, own areas of cities all with no common alleigence to each other, it is a reckless balkanistion of Britian that must be resisited.

 

 

<There are two sets of idealolgies in Northern Ireland you know. Or do you think Billy "Mad Dog" Adair and his followers are nice reasonable human beings?>

 

This is what annoys me with Nationalists, just because they can't get rid of this pathetic school-girl admiration for KILLERS they assume that Unionists must have the same fetish for loyalists. Well I've got news for you they DON'T. Mad Dog is a sick, evil man and it sickens me as a believer in the laws of this land to see him free and probably set to go into either organised crime or local politics (not that there's much difference in Ulster any more).

 

My rational position with Ulster is exactly the same as my postion with Israel pre Sharon, that whatever the Unionist may have done on the whole these are the good guys. Yes Catholics were 2nd class citizens in the 60s but Protestants were 2nd class citizens in Eire. Yes there are things that needed to be done to reach out to the Catholics but even if you believe that every Catholic wanted reunification with Eire then they were still in the minority ad Ulster still had the right to exist.

 

Also yes you right that the Protestant marjoity in Ulster is falling but from what I read this had something to do with a disease called "Killing in Cold Blood" where these Protestants kept dropping dead and stuff.

 

<Britain could never have "won" in Northern Ireland as just under half the population is Catholic and unless you're advocating genocide which has been done on this board before there would have always been conflict.>

 

Britain was winning in Ulster that's why the IRA sued for peace. Here's the facts; in '91 the IRA sought an armiscitse with the loyalists that would invole them not attacking each other and in '93 the IRA had to issue an order to Catholics to stop informing the police about the IRA. Sinn Fein also knew that the bombings were hurting it politically and wanted them stopped.

 

The fact is the British were winning by taking every effort to appear impartial (which to be honest they weren't, ever since direct rule has been imposed the British Intelligsta has been viruently anti-unionist) and by not going over the top and sticking to policing.

 

Also the fact is the IRA are facists that if it wasn't for the disater of Internment would have no popular support. They are gangsters who operate mob rule in the Catholic streets and kill anyone who challenges their rule. They are drug dealers, and control all the organise crime in Catholic areas. The working class people need saving from these bastards but the British Government as cowardly as ever refuses.

 

Also no one on the board has agrued for racial genocide but what they have agrued for is population transfer. Now its impractical and wrong in the case of Israel/Palenstine but throughout history it has been useful i.e Poland and Czechoslovika kicking out the Germans after WW2, and to be honest it would have been much easier if there had been such a population transfer after partition.

 

<Orange marches are okay in the Republic be cause they are in the minority and don't intimidate the local population. Plus Catholics tend to object only when it specifically passes through their area. Most of the contentious marches could be re-routed but year after year they demand that they go on their traditional route.>

 

Hey I thought we had this wonderful multicultralism where every race and creed could celebrate they history. Oh wait only minorities can do that  not the actual marjoity in any given place. More importantly I thought we had Free Speech, oh wait now thats just silly, sure Muslims can take to the streets and call on someone to be murdered (a criminal offence), the IRA and its Loyalists clones can hold demonmic miltary funerals for terrorists but a RELIGOUS order cannot celebrate its history and how it was saved from genocide by the KING of England, no, no.

The fact is most marches had past for years without incident until Sinn Fein started whipping them up.

 

<Why are lives on the Mainland worth more than in the North? Come to that why are Dozens of people on the mainland worth more than the "thousands" in the North? Are you saying that a paddy like me is worth less than a true Brit like yourself?>

 

That's the position of all the masses you quote being in favour of the Surrender Process. The fact is Britian save a few Tories didn't give a damn about Ulster until the IRA started blowing shit up on the mainland. Blair desperatly doesn't want that to happen during his premiership and he definetly doesn't want to be put at personal risk so he in a faustian deal consigened Ulster to mob rule save the galliant efforts of David Trimble.

 

<The idea of having a police force in Northern Ireland that is 99% Prosetant is just fucking stupid. Of course the RUC had to go.>

 

Yes it is but is WASN'T THE RUC'S FAULT. As I have told you Catholics had no trouble covertly cooperatitng with the RUC but if they say joined the force then the would be killed, etc. Now yes it had to reformed but it could be handled with more tack when you consider these were fighting the War on Terror when Bush was in rehab.

 

Also surely you don't suggest that a party with links to terrorists should have anything to with supervising of the police?

 

< Are you saying that instead of a negoiated peace that Britain should have held on at all costs? .>

 

THERE IS NO PEACE!!! How can you describe what there is Ulster as peace? The working class areas are in thrall of gangsters and facists either IRA or Loyalists, which are no go areas for the police, every time Sinn Fein doesn't get there way the whole thing breaks down and we all fear that IRA will gets its guns and start killing again. Peace does not just mean no volience but no fear of volence. The guns are not slient they are killing and maiming dissdents in the facist enlaves in Ulster but importantly are out of earshot of the British. Just because you CHOOSE to see no evil, you CHOOSE to hear no evil, does not mean there is no evil, there is plenty in Ulster and if it wasn't for the geuis of David Trimble then the whole thing would have hit the fan ages ago.

 

Besides I never said no negoiations we should just have used our position of strength better and not create a political system that ossifies the Secterain nature of Irish Politics.

 

<If so you are at odds with the majority of the British, Irish and Northern Irish people>

 

The British people could not give a rats ass about Ulster, most mainland Britions would get shot of Ulster. The fact is its no of the Irish (Republics) business, this an internal matter for the United Kingdom along to deal with and as for the Northern Irish people, well does a public that just a year ago seemed to be set on voting for the DUP/Sinn Fein hardly sounds like a people set for peace.

 

<Which as we are living in a democracy makes you wrong.>

 

Your know in 1940 most Germans thought Hitler was right, does that make him right?

 

And besides we are but because of our cowardice most of Ulster isn't.

 

<Why are you calling Zimbabwe Rhodesia? Do you call Iran Persia; or Sri Lanka Ceylon? Do you live in Tir Nan Og?

 

I was just calling Zimbabwe  Rhodesia just to mess with the anti-imperalists, heh heh. Btw I have nothing but contempt for Cecil Rhodes.

 

<Unless you can remember back to the early decades of the last century or even the 1950's why the fuck do you care whether Britain is acting in an imperial manner?>

 

The early decades of the last century? WTF? Britian got shot of its Empire after WW2 with Rhodesia only getting independence and beoming Zimbabwe in 1981 which is admittedly before I was born but still.

 

Let me tell you a story. A Portugese Jew who happened to have a British Passport due to a brief stay in Gilbrator lived in Greece. During an anti-semtic riot his house was burned however the Greeks did nothing. You know what Britian did? It organised a Royal Navy blockade of Greece until it paid that man compenstation. And you now what Palmerson said in Parliament he said that the British Empire was like the Roman Empire, if you were a citizen of it, no matter who you were you where you were, you could expect its protection.

 

Yes the Empire is unfortunatly long gone  but that holds true just as much then as it does now. And there in Zimabwe there were British citizens being killed and having their property stolen and we did nothing, absoubtetly nothing, not a thing because of gulit-trip the left has in this country over the Empire. We let people who may not have been nice, who may not have provided Britian but they were British and we did not a damn thing to help our own brethen. That is a betrayal of the Union Flag and everything it stands for, a sheer betrayal by a gutless, bastard of a Prime Minister who is only happy when getting a free holiday or platiudes from Supernational organistations like the EU or the UN that are hell bent on destroying national soverginity and identity.

 

<If you are under 60 you have no memory of Britain having an empire  so why should it Act Imperial?>

 

Fact is this we built Africa from a hole in the world ithe a bunch of tribes in it and then have to watch the Africans flush it down the drain. Fine we won't act Imperial but I'm damned if I'm going to see my country having to pick up the fucking tab all the time.

 

 

<In the French election he denounced a facist standing on a racist ticket, good for him.>

 

I wouldn't dream of supporting him but how is Le Pen a facist? He believes in democracy and has made no statements about setting up a dictatorship to run the country so he can't be facist. Also he can't be a racist (anymore at least) as he's a cultural suprmercist. He believes that the French way of life is better than any other way of life and those that come to live in France should acceptate France's ways. He has a number of blacks and jews in his party so how does this square with him being a racist? (racist meaning "Believing that you are superior to some one beacuse of your race). Blair should have stayed out and let demoracy take its course.

 

< Why should Britain hang onto Gibraltar, the Falklands or any other colony?>

 

You seemed to have made a little typo so I corrected you.

 

Why, because the inhabitates are British and want to stay British which is damn good enough reason for me.

 

< You're right about one thing though Blair is a twat.>

 

No, your right on one thing which is that Blair's a twat.

 

William

[Guest muzanisa]

We live in a multicultural society, if we don't what about the Asian couple who run my local shop? What about my mate who's parents came from Jamaica in the 70's? Are you saying that Britain should just be for White Anglo saxons?

 

You lump all Catholics in as Nationalists and say they support the IRA; but deny that Loyalists support the terrorist groups.

That is complete bullshit; a minority on both sides support and enable they groups to continue.    

From the tone of your post you'd think there was wholesale slaughter going on ion the North, there isn't the vast majority of people just go on with normal lives. Have you ever been?

The terrorists on both sides are criminals, neither side has moral superiority.

 

Yeah the British were winning and the intelligence service was anti - unionist. that's why there was a shoot to kill policy in the North that only affected Catholics. I've read books by Tim Pat Coogan on the subject, Gerry Adams, John Stalker and others, that contradict what you have said. Where do you get your information?

 

Again there are accounts of the marches that report how catholics hid under tables when the marches went past, this was before the IRA resurgance. The 12th of july has always been a flashpoint so again you're wrong. The IRA funerals which of course don't happen anymore, took place in catholic cementary's where no Prosestant would be around to be offended apart from the one who interrupted it with a handgun and grenades and is now walking free under the terms of the Good Friday agreement; that all sides agreed to.

 

The RUC was 99% prosestant policing a community that is roughly 50/50  split. A significant number of Catholics would never have joined the RUC because of its history so it had to be reformed.

 

 

Hey you were just calling it Rhodesia to mess with us anti- imperialists and yet you changed my spelling of the Malvinas.

who's messing with who.

 

So you were born after 1981 and you mourn the passing of the British Empire? Do you also believe that George III should have fought harder to keep the colonies?

 

Britain as far as I know doesn't pick up the tab for Africa so stop getting upset about it.

 

Le Pen is a racist. It is as simple as that. If you don't accept that Le Pen is a racist then you are not living in the real World.