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The Dames

The One and Only Buffy & Angel Thread

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Guest Brian

In Reunion, Druscilla asks Darla if she is pretty, and Darla replies "As a picture." I found that interesting since it's a lyric in Lindsay's "LA Song" and I've been listening to it alot on the soundtrack.

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Ok, so a vampire can't enter someone else's house without an invite. BUT, what if they're sired in someone else's house. Will they just not come back before they're out, or can they go into that house without being invited or what?

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The "vampires can't enter a home" thing is an old Bram Stoker cliche that Joss stole to make his life easier. If the hordes of vampires could just knock down Buffy's door and kill her in the night, there'd be no show.

 

The original idea comes from old European superstitions, which were a mix of ancient pagan religions and misunderstood Catholic mysticism. Something to do with a reanimated corpse not being able to re-enter its homes or any other Christian home unless the inhabitants wanted it to come in.

 

But as to your question: my best guess is that the vampire would rise as normal, and would then simply leave the house and not be able to get back in. (Note that having someone turned into a vampire inside a house yet having the owner remain a living human is unlikely to say the least.)

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well, say if Angel'd turned evil and turned Dawn while Buffy and her mom were elsewhere (best example I could come up with off the top of my head)

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How many of you own all of the Buffy and Angel sets on DVD at this point?

 

Dames

 

I just got my last Angel set 2 weeks ago (I was missing Season 4).

I was surprised Season 2 was anamorphic widescreen, since they didn't start showing it in widescreen on WB until Season 3.

 

I think I bought all the Buffy sets as they came out.

 

Can anyone compile a list of all the episodes Joss Whedon does commentary on?

I think 've listened to them all, but I'm not sure since the info isn't on the DVD case anywhere.

 

And what are some of the better non-Whedon commentaries?

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Guest Brian

Vampire needs dirt to be sired technically in the Whedonverse, though they've actually welched on that a few times. But it is one of those things they emphasize when Angel is looking to stop a re-vamped Darla from rising again.

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Just wondering, since Angel had connors memory erased and put with another family and everyone else didnt rememebr him, then what exactly did they remember? Didn't wes wake up and think "hey where did that scar on my neck come from?" and say "hey wheres my glasses ? and immediatley shave?

 

I will give credit though, cuz in early season 5 wes' voice is much higher and happier and he seems a bit nerdy again but still is badass.

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Guest Brian

Wes probably left the group, or at least still was fucking Lilah, and the higher power still took over. He wasn't nearly as dark, because Billy probably never happened (as I said before, Wes got a second chance in "Lineage").

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This is probably stupid but..

 

For some reason I think the character of Spike would be a wrestling fan, cuz he is all into violence and such plus he loves soap operas so this would be the perfect mix.

 

So who would be Spikes favorite wrestlier? Perhaps Gangrel? Or Taker?

 

whats your take on this.

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Austin. Spike would crap all over Gangrel and Taker, he hates phoney Halloween type stuff. And he hates authority figures, while he loves jumping into a random brawl with fists a-flyin'. He'd be a huge Stone Cold mark.

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Vampire needs dirt to be sired technically in the Whedonverse, though they've actually welched on that a few times. But it is one of those things they emphasize when Angel is looking to stop a re-vamped Darla from rising again.

 

 

They never say you need dirt in that ep. Angel just thinks Dru would want Darla buried because she is a tradionalist and would want Darla to raise from her grave.

 

"Angel: "Drusilla will want to put the body in the ground."

Wesley: "Angel, are you certain about this? A burial isn't necessary for a newly made vampire to..."

Angel: "It would be for Drusilla. She's a classicist." "

 

 

 

Emma just annouced she has a new movie called godspeed coming out next year.

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Austin.  Spike would crap all over Gangrel and Taker, he hates phoney Halloween type stuff.  And he hates authority figures, while he loves jumping into a random brawl with fists a-flyin'.  He'd be a huge Stone Cold mark.

Great Point, I also thoguht he might like Austin.

 

Hell he'd probably do a run in and bite Taker and say "Now you're a real dead man bitch!"

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Guest Brian
Vampire needs dirt to be sired technically in the Whedonverse, though they've actually welched on that a few times. But it is one of those things they emphasize when Angel is looking to stop a re-vamped Darla from rising again.

 

 

They never say you need dirt in that ep. Angel just thinks Dru would want Darla buried because she is a tradionalist and would want Darla to raise from her grave.

 

"Angel: "Drusilla will want to put the body in the ground."

Wesley: "Angel, are you certain about this? A burial isn't necessary for a newly made vampire to..."

Angel: "It would be for Drusilla. She's a classicist." "

 

You're right. I remember the ocnversation completely, though I was originally just thinking of the second part (where Wes says that all she really needs for a burial is dirt).

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Here's a fun little article from a few years back:

 

http://slate.msn.com/id/2058066/

 

Buffy Slays. Now What?

The least-watched great show on TV grows up.

By Tim Appelo

Posted Monday, Nov. 5, 2001, at 2:16 PM PT

 

To cop a lyric from Buffy the Vampire Slayer's Nov. 6 all-musical episode, Where Do We Go From Here? For five years, Buffy has been the least-watched great show on television, the most ridiculed by ignorati who think they're literati. Like its peers (The West Wing, The Sopranos, ER), Buffy is better than movies because its writer is the most important guy on the set.

 

But now creator Joss Whedon has basically turned Buffy over to his lieutenant, Marti Noxon, and his crack writing crew while he directs movies and spins off new shows: a cartoon Buffy and a BBC series starring Anthony Stewart Head, who plays Buffy's high-school librarian and watcher (vampire-slaying mentor) Giles. Buffy's story line echoes scary reality: Joss the Watcher is leaving the kids in control, just as newly motherless Buffy, Willow the witch, and friends, no longer teens, must now give slaying the old college try. Joss says the sixth season's theme is, "Oh, grow up!" Nothing can be quite the same again.

 

A lack of sameness is why Buffy is confined to tiny networks and snubbed by Emmys. Television demands comforting rituals: the safely contained crises of ER, the catch phrases, the familiar settings and static characters. The West Wing has the reassuring, smug hum of a sewing machine. You could say of it what Randall Jarrell said of Richard Wilbur's verse: It "obsessively sees, and shows, the bright underside of every dark thing." It's an effortless wish-fulfillment fantasy, and that's what always wins awards. Buffy is not afraid of exploring dark, unfamiliar places. This imperils her popularity. Even audiences who foment revolution unconsciously crave tradition: Belushi's "But noooo!" refrain and the Wild and Crazy Czech brothers got no laughs on SNL until tireless repetition trained us to get the joke.

 

You can't know what to expect on Buffy. At first, it was an Archie archetype: four friends and an avuncular teacher whose high school is the mouth of hell, beset by a different monster each week—each monster cleverly illustrating actual teen experience. "People are scarier than monsters," says Whedon. Like a comet, the most brilliant monster metaphor knocked the whole show onto a new course: Whedon and Noxon had Buffy lose her virginity on her 17th birthday, and the next morning her kindly boyfriend turned cold and cruel due to an ancient curse. Same thing happened last week, after Buffy's kid sister Dawn's first kiss. Nota bene, girls: Boys will be vampires. Buffy is reality programming.

 

But it breaks the iron law of TV formula. It ruthlessly mocks its own conventions and catch phrases (and pop culture in general). It's a big ratings deal when Sherry Stringfield exits or returns to ER. On Buffy, more central characters have now left the show than there were central characters to begin with. Relationships morph, characters become good or evil, uncannily nonhuman, or gay. Faced with overwhelming pressure to handle sensitive issues with Very Special Episode sanctimony and obvious right-thinking agitprop, Whedon is stubbornly, heroically, creatively perverse. Buffy boasts the least stupid shows ever done on date rape, teen suicide, and seducer teachers. After Willow Rosenberg, the witch, got an enchanted gal-pal, scandalizing viewers shocked by realistic lesbian characters, Whedon spoke out: "I've made a mistake by trying to shove this lifestyle—which is embraced by, maybe, at most, 10 percent of Americans—down people's throats. So I'm going to take it back, and from now on, Willow will no longer be a Jew." His is the first show truly to master the teen native tongue, sarcasm.

 

Faced with the classic Gasoline Alley/Archie dilemma—if you've got a bunch of kids, are they going to age or be a standing wave of youth?—Buffy riskily, passionately embraced change. Any episode of Friends or Frasier is essentially self-contained. You can pick up enough about the scene and the ongoing soap opera to grasp what's going on fast. But Buffy is a blur, a hell-bound train, and if you're a newcomer not up to speed, the story is not going to wait for you. Its approach to newbie viewers is akin to the notorious Microsoft memo about employees: Prune the Laggards.

 

A month into the new, Noxon-watched Buffy, it's time to take stock. When Buffy clawed her way out of her coffin in the season opener, she emerged as bewildered as a new viewer. The two-minute introduction, "Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer," was comically incomprehensible, and the world she returned to is utterly different from that of the early episodes. Compare the scene the last time Buffy came back from the dead, at the start of Season 2. The show was deft, funny, playing off instantly recognizable high-school romantic roundelays.

 

But Noxon is not Whedon. He admiringly called Noxon "the suicide girl," and death is certainly her gift. A melodramatist of genius, she plumbs emotional depths beyond her boss's ken. Yet she lacks his quicksilver touch—he wrote 90 percent of Speed, for God's sake—and the Buffy-back-from-the-dead episodes had a lead foot, demons who just went through the motions, and a seven-minute climax that should've taken two. Plus, she can't write a joke to save her life, nor Buffy's. Fortunately, the rest of the staff can write jokes, but nobody in Season 6 has yet matched the original Whedon team in mixing Buffy's ineffable cocktail of laughs, tears, and undead-ass-kicking action.

 

Now that Buffy's mom is dead (a traumatic milestone in TV history) and her watcher is off to his British series, her house is full of young adults casting about for identity. The plots—about getting a first job, coping with money, domestic quarrels, getting married—lack the resonance of the teen-age Buffy years. Comparing grown-up Buffy to her old self, one thinks of C.S. Lewis, who said he never read a memoir in which the childhood wasn't the best part because everyone can relate. The new adventures of Buffy are simply less universal. Now the show's focus shifts from Buffy (star Sarah Michelle Gellar has maybe two years on her contract) to Willow, who's getting corrupted by absolute witchy power (Alyson Hannigan is the show's top acting talent), and Buffy's 15-year-old sister Dawn (Michelle Trachtenberg is clearly being groomed for stardom after Gellar quits). The story shapes are vaguer. One senses an endgame afoot.

 

Not that team Buffy isn't constantly striving for improvement. For instance, the writers have polished the show's excellent innovation on the classic fistfight. Most on-screen punches are the typical John Wayne type, accompanied by a sound "somewhere between the click of billiard balls and the crack of a rifle" (as Garry Wills observed). Buffy's fight scenes are post-Jackie Chan, and when she spikes a vamp, instead of spurting hackneyed horror gore, they say, "Dude, that sucks!" and vanish in a puff of dust. In recent episodes, the vampires briefly turn to skeletons before crumbling—a nice touch.

 

Much about Buffy has gotten better since the first, no-budget shows, when they couldn't afford their own graveyard, and the show has suffered nothing like The Sopranos' falloff in quality. It still makes Sex and the City look sickly. Noxon's crew valiantly strives to fulfill Buffy's ambition: "I realize every slayer comes with an expiration mark on the package, but I want mine to be a long time from now, like a Cheeto." Buffy is still addictive.

 

But I've begun to doubt if she will ever be immortal again.

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So whatever happened to Animated Buffy and Ripper, anyway? Did Joss just toss 'em on the back burner (or in the dumpster) while focusing on Serenity?

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Has anyone heard about that new book, Queen of the Slayers, that is basically a season 8 of Buffy? I just heard from someone that Anya is in it and visits Xander. I'm like so hyped now, I must buy it tomorrow.

 

That sounds like the shit. I love Anya and Xander, only in defference to Oz and Erstwhile Willow. If any nerd show needs an official EU, Buffy is the one. Though I seriously wonder how they'll deal with Angel's finale. If it's left to: They kicked the shit out of everyone, they saved the earth, they made ready. they died, it's pretty much the only conlcusion, but what a fucking bummer. Of course killing Fred sort of gauranteed a bummer. (although sometimes overly so, she was about the only happy character enmeshed in the full angst. n the whedonverse.

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Ripper never got off the ground. I guess it's still possible, but it would be years from now. The animated series was nearly a reality, they even had like 10 episodes written. Then it was killed. Last year it almost came back. A 10 minute or so presentation was made to sell to networks but apparently no one was interested.

 

 

The new Angel & Spike comics are going to address what happened after Not Fade Away. Sounds like they're not going to show it all, but instead reveal it bit by bit with flashbacks. The writers have said most of the major characters will return eventually, but didn't say in what form. The Spike comic coming out soon is about Halfrek, so I'm hoping for an Anya cameo.

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Yah, I picked up the first issue of Angel, not too shabby. Nothing about NFA yet, though..

 

Also, anyone who hasn't read it - should read FRAY by Whedon. It's basically a Slayer far far ahead in the future, but it does reference Buffy and Season 7's finale.

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Has anyone heard about that new book, Queen of the Slayers, that is basically a season 8 of Buffy? I just heard from someone that Anya is in it and visits Xander. I'm like so hyped now, I must buy it tomorrow.

 

That sounds like the shit. I love Anya and Xander, only in defference to Oz and Erstwhile Willow. If any nerd show needs an official EU, Buffy is the one. Though I seriously wonder how they'll deal with Angel's finale. If it's left to: They kicked the shit out of everyone, they saved the earth, they made ready. they died, it's pretty much the only conlcusion, but what a fucking bummer. Of course killing Fred sort of gauranteed a bummer. (although sometimes overly so, she was about the only happy character enmeshed in the full angst. n the whedonverse.

 

I'd say Loren was the most angst free character until Fred died.

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Yeah, you're right. Fred meant more to the other characters, though. Lorne was pretty much pure comic relief, so I sorta forgot him.

 

Did you take your screenname after Giles, Ripper?

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Yah, I picked up the first issue of Angel, not too shabby. Nothing about NFA yet, though..

 

Also, anyone who hasn't read it - should read FRAY by Whedon. It's basically a Slayer far far ahead in the future, but it does reference Buffy and Season 7's finale.

 

It also featured the first appearance of the Super Slayer Axe that Buffy used in the last few eps of Season 7.

 

I bought all the issues when they were published, but the 8 part series is available as a trade paperback.

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Fray is a decent way to kill an afternoon when you've got nothing better to do, but it's not a must-have. It's interesting, but it's set so far in the future that it really has nothing to do with any of the Buffy characters. Although it does hint at some weird events that happen after the end of both series.

 

For the various Whedonverse comics, I'd say the recent TPB Tales of the Slayers is the most interesting. It includes the story of exactly what happened to Spike and Dru in Prague, has a post-finale Buffy story that's kinda amusing, and a few other various odds and ends.

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I read on Buffy.ne recently that the Spike movie we all heard about a while ago was going to be released directly to DVD sometime in the near future. Rejoice, all!

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