Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted May 20, 2002 When HHH came back, it wasn't up to him to draw at house shows, or raise the TV ratings. It was up to Jericho. HHH wasn't headining No Way Out and Royal Rumble, Jericho was. HHH didn't stink the ring at No Way Out and Royal Rumble, Jericho did. In other words, Jericho proved he isn't ready to main event. If putting the good of the company ahead of the good of the wrestler's APPEARANCE in said company, makes the career go down the drain, then Kurt shouldn't have EVER main evented to begin with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 20, 2002 Jericho had a VERY good match with Rocky at the Rumble. HHH didn't stink the ring at No Way Out and Royal Rumble, Jericho did. Excuse me? HHH most certainly DID stink the ring up at No Way Out. If putting the good of the company ahead of the good of the wrestler's APPEARANCE in said company, makes the career go down the drain, then Kurt shouldn't have EVER main evented to begin with. Tell that to HHH. Angle is more valuable than Edge, so he was NOT putting the good of the company ahead of his own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted May 20, 2002 Kurt is leaving, therefore Edge is more valuble. So if HHH stunk up the ring, then your saying Angle was in a bad match? Angle vs HHH wasn't the ME, Austin vs Jericho was which was the drizzling shit. You seem to agree with HHH, Kurt's wrong for putting the good of WWE ahead of what's good for Kurt Angle. HHH puts what's good for HHH ahead of what's good for WWE according to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 20, 2002 Kurt is leaving, therefore Edge is more valuble. Edge sucks and needs to be carried to good matches, has NEVER had a good singles feud and is the most BORING character in the WWF right now, so Kurt is more valuble, no matter where he is. So if HHH stunk up the ring, then your saying Angle was in a bad match? Worst match of Angle's career, entirely do to HHH and his 40 pounds of water weight. Angle vs HHH wasn't the ME, Austin vs Jericho was which was the drizzling shit. Angle/HHH had just as much significance as Austin/Jericho, and it was 10 times worse than Austin/Jericho. You seem to agree with HHH, Kurt's wrong for putting the good of WWE ahead of what's good for Kurt Angle. HHH puts what's good for HHH ahead of what's good for WWE according to you. Because what Kurt's doing isn't for the good of the WWF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted May 20, 2002 So let me see if I can get this straight. HHH a PROVEN draw, is trying to build himself up to headline a PPV. This is bad because HHH is a selfish guy who wants no comeptition. Angle, a proven FAILURE in ME drawing is helping to elevate a fellow wrestler since he's leaving. This is bad because Angle ought to be selfish and not let anyone rise above him. Austin vs Jericho had more significance seeing as it was a title match. Everyone knew going into the PPV who was winning Angle vs HHH so it was about as significant as Angle's last WWF title run. If Edge is the most boring character then I should start watching Jakked, Funaki, Albert, and Val Venis must be the cream of the crop in terms of drawing, and giving promos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted May 20, 2002 HHH had every right to go over in Hell In A Cell, how he he be expected to be able to beat Undertaker (who he lost to clean at WM X-Seven) if he can't beat a wannabe main eventer like Jericho Ugh, I don't even want to get STARTED with this. HHH HAD NO FUCKING REASON TO GO OVER. None. Zip. Nada. You talk about it not hurting Angle to lose, but you think that it would hurt HHH to lose to Jericho? And answer this... Jericho can beat Austin and Rock in one night, but he can't defeat HHH, or not even come close for that matter. Does that make sense to you? Yet you bring up that HHH wouldn't be able to go over Taker if Jericho beat him. First of all, if HHH even got a title shot, I doubt his credibility would be shooting down through the floor. Secondly, it wouldn't hurt HHH! Losing to a former Undisputed Champion is not exactly putting you in the midcard. When HHH came back, it wasn't up to him to draw at house shows, or raise the TV ratings. It was up to Jericho. HHH wasn't headining No Way Out and Royal Rumble, Jericho was. HHH didn't stink the ring at No Way Out and Royal Rumble, Jericho did. In other words, Jericho proved he isn't ready to main event. First off, he didn't 'stink up the ring' at RR. And if I remember correctly, wasn't HHH the one in the main event at Backlash with Hogan? (yeah.. I know.. it's Hogan, but I'm going by your logic) Hmm.. from what I heard, that match wasn't exactly MOTY candidate. HHH a PROVEN draw, is trying to build himself up to headline a PPV. This is bad because HHH is a selfish guy who wants no comeptition. Right, I'm sure all those people standing up and leaving before the main event at Wrestlemania had nothing to do with HHH. (Yes, I witnessed it first hand) Oh wait, I forgot, it's all Jericho's fault. My bad. Oh, and it's Jericho's fault that the fans couldn't give two shits about HHH winning either. Angle, a proven FAILURE in ME drawing is helping to elevate a fellow wrestler since he's leaving. Proven failure, huh? That must be why he is the most over heel right now, and why they used him to get over Edge in the MAIN EVENT! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 20, 2002 HHH a PROVEN draw, is trying to build himself up to headline a PPV. This is bad because HHH is a selfish guy who wants no comeptition. The fans are not into Face HHH, so he is NOT a proven draw (as a face), and he has had EXTREMELY poor quality matches since his return. Angle, a proven FAILURE in ME drawing is helping to elevate a fellow wrestler since he's leaving. This is bad because Angle ought to be selfish and not let anyone rise above him. No Honky Tonk Champion will ever draw. That's how they booked Angle. Austin vs Jericho had more significance seeing as it was a title match. And HHH/Angle was a number one contender's match. Both matches had huge impacts on WM Everyone knew going into the PPV who was winning Angle vs HHH so it was about as significant as Angle's last WWF title run. Silly me, I thought everyone was under the impression that HHH was going to win. Of course, he took a cheap loss and destroyed Angle with ease the next night, but whatever. If Edge is the most boring character then I should start watching Jakked, Funaki, Albert, and Val Venis must be the cream of the crop in terms of drawing, and giving promos. None of those men get an EIGHTH of the time that Edge gets to say "You're like, so totally a dork, like, bed wetter!" and Do 35 million spears. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted May 20, 2002 Now Angle can have that long awaited feud with Mark Henry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted May 20, 2002 The fans were so burned out on Jericho vs HHH at WM because they went on last and Hogan vs Rock took almost ALL of the heat they would have had. I call HHH vs Angle insignificant because of the fact they re did the match the next night, anyone who spent money on that PPV for that match, (The angles going into it were great) probably felt cheated. HHH vs Hogan flopped because of a. Hogan's laziness and b. HHH wasn't well developed as a face or heel going into it, he was just "there." Edge's use of spears is about equal to Kurt's use of Angle Slams. Edge has only made ONE bed wetting joke and that was over six months ago. If you still remember that, it must have made some huge impact on you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted May 20, 2002 o_O. People were 'burned out', so they just decided to leave during the main event at Wrestlemania even though they paid hundreds of dollars to go? No. You are supposed to be there in anticipation for the main event, not leave during it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted May 20, 2002 HHH vs Jericho was poorly promoted Every commerical for WM featured Hogan vs Rock as the featured fight. Go watch the two matches and you'll see what I mean. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 20, 2002 Edge has only made ONE bed wetting joke and that was over six months ago. If you still remember that, it must have made some huge impact on you. My point is that is why Edge's character is HORRIBLE. He CANNOT play a serious face. Christian attacks him, tears the family apart, and starts playing an AWESOME heel. What does Edge do? Treat Christian like a joke, hump the mat and make bed wetting jokes. That could have been a really intense serious feud. Edge blew it. And Edge does Spears WAY more often than Kurt does Angle Slams Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 20, 2002 HHH vs Jericho was poorly promoted Every commerical for WM featured Hogan vs Rock as the featured fight. Go watch the two matches and you'll see what I mean. Maybe if the feud wasn't over dog shit and the champion wasn't fetching shampoo, people would have cared. What a stupid booking decission that was. it really fucked Jericho. Now, who's banging the head booker again? Besides, the fans lost interest in Hunter WAY before Mania. the reaction to him regaining the Number One Contenders spot from Angle could only be described as Apathy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted May 21, 2002 Anglesault, This may be a first, but I agree with you. HHH vs Y2J was the main event of the biggest show of the year, and they were fighting over a dog. If they had just stuck to Y2J bragging about causing HHH to tear his quad it would have been fine. Part of the reason for that stupid booking is probably in the fact that WWF was promoting the hell out of Rock vs Hogan. I agree with you on Edge playing the serious face as well, I can understand it for the Angle feud though since Angle plays a comdedic heel. Edge vs Christian was a pretty serious feud, Edge did give a serious interview on Excess, but WHO THE FUCK WATCHES EXCESS? The one thing in Edge's defense I will say though is that Rock and Jericho got themselves very over by use of comedy in promos. Also, Edge's shot on X Pac about in not being 1998 anymore was just BRUTAL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 21, 2002 Comedy CAN work, but when you have (What should have been) a storyline that had a 20-something year relationship destroyed over jealousy and a family being ripped apart, there is no place for jokes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted May 21, 2002 Don't blame Edge. Blame the writers who come up with his promos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 21, 2002 Or Edge's inability to play a serious role. The guy that writes for Christian writes for Edge. Christian got serious promos. Maybe Edge couldn't do the serious promos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted May 21, 2002 I hope Angle and Edge are done fueding let both of them move on As the top heel in the company Angle should be in the main event now or looking to get into the main event soon even if you don't consider him the top heel he is the most over that should count for something but RVD is over no one booking seems to care about that Edge while i believe he can have solid ** to **** matches he needs to stay upper midcard develop his character a little more and make the step up when the Austins, Undertakers, and Hogans retire which i hope is soon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted May 21, 2002 I wish the old board was still up. I recall posting this on there: So,ebody is going to look back at this and blame Jericho for the ratings and the buyrates. I'd like to point out that EVERY raw, EVERY Smackdown, EVERY recap show and EVERY ppv has been centered around the return of HHH and not the Jericho title reign. It was HHH's return, HHH and Steph being pregnant, HHH and Steph renewing vows, HHH and Steph breaking up...meanwhile Jericho is curtain jerking against Rikishi. I said it then when original HHHater and it still holds true: WWF programming from JAnuary 7 until WrestleMania has nothing to do with Jericho or his title reign...it was all HHH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted May 21, 2002 Well, Christian didn't exactly STAY a serious character either. They gave him the tantrum gimmick and teamed him with DDP, followed by one of the most meaningless feuds ever. But you're absolutely right about Edge. I'm not going to lie and say "Even when E&C were together I could see who was the weak link", but now that they're seperate, its unbelievably obvious. I was never for the Angle/Edge feud, and like you, I'm very glad its over (please God, let it fucking be over). As long as we're not discussing Triple H, Anglesault, I usually tend to agree with you. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 21, 2002 PerfectPlex, I meant during the Edge/Christian feud he stayed serious. You could also argue (And this is stretching it) that the tantrum gimmcik was serious because he was conveying frustration. And no, while they were a tag team, I had no idea that Edge was the weak link. I don't think anyone did. I think Edge can be a very good tag wrestler and a good HEEL. But singles face just exposes his weaknesses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alfdogg Report post Posted May 21, 2002 I'm bound to get flamed no metter what I say, but I'll go for it anyway: The finish was right, since they insisted on a clean win for Edge. If they ARE going to insist on stretching this out another month, then it should have went like this: Match 1: Angle cheats to win Match 2: Edge wins on fluke Match 3: Angle wins clean It's pretty much the same as the Regal feud, except with Kurt, the feud sucked and the matches were good, while with Regal, the matches sucked and the feud was good. I was still happy to see Edge-Regal end, though. I can't see Kurt putting off his surgery after KOTR. If the feud is indeed over, I don't know what Kurt does from here. As far as Hogan's rub, Jericho needs it FAR more than Kurt does. As far as Rock's heel title reign, he did have few, if even any, clean wins as champ, but he had matches like RR99 and St. VDM to make him look like a badass. Jericho didn't have that. Angle's win at Armageddon proved that he can survive those kind of matches, but it was still a fluke win. Rock-Hogan should have been the last match at Mania. I don't think you would have seen people leaving at the end then. But since the dumbass matchmakers put it before the women's match and the HHH-Y2J match, it was Jericho's fault that people were leaving. That's basically what that person said. The HIAC at Judgment Day was the only HHH match I've SEEN since his comeback that has been watchable. Meanwhile, Jericho had a MOTYC with Rock at the Rumble, a pretty good match with RVD on RAW a few weeks before WWE Ground Zero (1-7), and a good match with Angle a couple weeks before WM. You can't possibly blame Jericho for No Way Out, because Austin was unmotivated because of the NWO stuff, and has been that way ever since. Which is why I hope to see Austin-Flair at KOTR. Well, I guess YOU can, since you obviously seem more concerned with arguing with Anglesault than talking about the subject at hand intelligently. That's another thing I find funny...every time AS shows displeasure with something, he gets his ass jumped by about 20 people at once, and anyone who agrees with him is dismissed as one of his sheep, like Angle-Plex. I've had my disagreements with him (ex. comparing the Angle-Holly injury to the D-Lo-Droz injury). I've disagreed with bps (when he was in his "Angle is heatless" phase on the old board). I've disagreed with Rasmus (well, not really disagreement about anything in particular, but we have different feelings about RVD). I've probably disagreed with everyone about something at least once. But that doesn't mean I have to resort to flaming them for stating their opinion. But somehow, I have the feeling that it is going to happen to me. That's all I have to say for now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted May 21, 2002 what's wrong with flaming? if i call anglesault "a sucker of angle's cock" it helps me keep my sense of humor & it keeps the discussion from getting too intense. i, for one, would like to see MORE flaming on this board. i like it more when topics disintegrate into flaming than when there's 2 topics designated for flaming & everybody keeps their mouth shut on all the other topics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kinetic Report post Posted May 22, 2002 I want to point out this portion of an interview with Kurt Angle posted at wwe.com: Despite some initial discomfort, Angle said that losing his hair was a small price to pay for the quality of his work with Edge as of late. "I'm really enjoying the program with Edge so this well worth it," he said. "I've been having some of the best matches I think we've had in the company in a long time. I think Edge and I have been able to do that. It's well worth any bit of hair. As long as the fans continue to like it and we continue to entertain them, they enjoy it, love it, that's all that matters to me. I know we have some funny programs coming up. I can't wait to see how that comes out." That last bit seems to indicate that it is, in fact, not over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 22, 2002 They've failed as of yet to do ANYTHING funny. Why start now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Man in Blak Report post Posted May 22, 2002 *sigh* The more things change, the more they stay the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 22, 2002 I'm sorry, but I don't find "Haha, you suck, you dork! ::Spear::" funny. It might amuse you, but not me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest treble charged Report post Posted May 22, 2002 Anglesault, how come I haven't heard anything from you about Angle's spear on Edge? Unless my eyes were decieving me, I'm sure I saw one last week on SmackDown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted May 22, 2002 You mean you couldn't hear my anger filled shriek in Toronto? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted May 22, 2002 WWE is noticing how over both of them are getting from this feud. Now its to the point of teaming them up with un-over jobbers to the stars. Edge/Maven vs Angle/Christian. Edge/Rikishi vs Angle/Albert Edge/Venis vs Angle/Storm Notice that in all those tag matches, Angle or Edge didn't do the job, so at least WWE is trying to keep them credible. Angle is doing the George Costanza bit from Seinfeld (toupee) that should be "funny". At least we can hear Angle talk down to Maven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
