Raw praise here... elsewhere

[Guest]

I'll be honest. I liked RAW. I seem to be in the majority on this board that did (or at least in the RAW thread). I liked how they seemed to go in a different direction, and almost everything from a creative standpoint, made sense.

 

I was shocked however, to find that the first batch of reader reaction at the torch's website was entirely negative... some dramatically calling it the worst RAW ever!

 

I can see why some people would be pissed at RVD not winning and keeping the title, but in my opinion, having Taker retain was the best way to go. I think RVD should win the title at with a dramatic pay per view buildup... not on free tv.

 

Worst RAW ever? That's almost Michael Coleian in sheer exaggeration

 

Any thoughts?

[Guest papacita]

I dunno. It wasn't the best Raw ever, but it was easily the best they've had in 2002. It just always seems to me that no matter how good something is, you're always gonna find some people who hate it.

[Guest]

I didn't see most of the show, so I can't make a valid opinion, but I doubt it was as bad as the previous three weeks. With the worst ever RAW going to the one with the motorcycle stalling.

The SmarkBoard is raving about this RAW, and Pro Wrestling Torch's feedback is calling this episode the worst ever. Man talk about opposite ends of the spectrum!

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

Uh.  Whatever RAW you were watching was not the same as the one I watched last night.  Its pretty damn bad when the match of the night either is a Women's title match or it involves Taker.  Only good points are possible Eddy Austin fued, RVD getting the title shot and *almost* winning the title, and Raven coming out and badmouthing lawler for each and everyone of us who cant stand Lawler and his PUPPIES!!!

[Guest papacita]

Uh.  Whatever RAW you were watching was not the same as the one I watched last night.  Its pretty damn bad when the match of the night either is a Women's title match or it involves Taker.  Only good points are possible Eddy Austin fued, RVD getting the title shot and *almost* winning the title, and Raven coming out and badmouthing lawler for each and everyone of us who cant stand Lawler and his PUPPIES!!!

That's still more good than we've been seeing in recent months. The show was well put together and this is the first time in the last few months that I *HAVEN'T* fallen asleep on a Raw. Nothing earth-shattering, but I can't see much that was wrong with the show.

[Guest Will Scarlet]

I cannot figure why it would be called Worst Raw Ever.  At least it was something different, and better than the same old crap that the WWE was showing before.  Sure, I did not like the ending, but, if it actually goes somewhere, then I am perfectly fine with it.  I hope the WWE keeps it up.

[Guest]

I really can'0t see where these "Worst Raw Ever" types are coming from. Have they not been watching the past few weeks? After the recent debacles on Raw lately, we should be thankful that the WWF finally decided to try out some new storylines....and the prospect of Austin/Eddie is great.

 

All in all, it wasn't perfect, and the wrestling definitely weren't the highlight of tonight....But we DID get some sort of direction with the storylines, which is all that could be asked for and expected.

 

The ending definitely brought the show down a notch, but I definitely don't know whether RVD should've won and became the Champion either. Would it really be very fair for him to be Champion right now when he couldn't even go over on Eddie? A few weeks ago he was tagging with Jeff Hardy for crying out loud. I suppose I'm mixed on that regard..... But if the WWF goes with Triple H/Edge, instead of Triple H/Undertaker, simply have RVD chase Taker and get the belt off him at some later date.

 

As far as Booker/nWo is concerned....Yes, I would like Booker to be a face and go up against the nWo, but, as long as this gets him more time, then I'm not complaining. And as long as the nWo finally gets to look like a credible threat, I'm not complaining either. I'm guessing Booker will still be a reluctant member, and will turn face at some point anyway.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day, and I wouldn't expect WWF to have an instant turnaround, especially not judging from one show. But this Raw was still more entertaining than it has been lately.

[Guest notJames]

As much as I liked RAW last night, I still fell asleep during the middle of the UT/RVD match. Damn... I gotta take a nap before RAW

 

I too see this one as the beginning of something good. Lots of development here and there, testing the waters with new blood, new feuds... should be interesting.

 

Best RAW ever? No. Best RAW in a long time? Probably.

 

Now if they could just replace Lawler with Raven for real...  

[Guest]

What the hell worst RAW ever. I don think the guys that wrote that have been watching RAW the last couple of weeks i Actually thought it was the best RAW of the Year. I mean the nWo actually look like a threat. RVD gets a push that the fan's have been waiting to see. Although The ending was a bit fucked when Taker got the title back although RVD shouldnt have the title yet. Oh yeah does anyone know if RVD's a world champ or did it get stricken from the Record.

[Guest notJames]

Flair overturned the win and restarted the match. Ergo, the match never ended with RVD's pin, no belt for Van Dam.

 

See Jericho, Chris and Benoit, Chris for further details.

[Guest wolverine]

Perhaps people are raving about it because there's a larger percentage of RVD marks here than other places.  And they felt that this was a "step in the right direction" when in actuality it's nothing more than the usual false start to get his fanbase to continue to tune in.

 

I know.  I went through the same thing with Jericho two years ago, and Benoit one year ago.  Good thing I'm not an RVD fan.

[Guest cabbageboy]

Here is the difference in the Dusty Finishes from 2000 and 2001 to what we saw last night.  In 2000 Jericho pulled a wild upset of HHH due to the fast count.  It was reversed.  It was an interesting little experiment in the middle of the Rock/HHH feud.  It showed the WWF that fans would like Jericho as champ.  But really at that point Jericho wasn't as good of an option as HHH as champ.  Same thing with Benoit's various Dusty Finishes.....he wasn't as good of an option as the Rock in July 2000 or later on in Sept. 2000.  

 

The vastly negative feedback on the Torch is justified to some extent.  I myself was watching and thinking "this show has really sucked aside from the RVD/UT angle....it can either be one of my favorite shows ever if RVD wins the title, or one of the worst Raws I've ever seen if they screw him."  Well, they did the Dusty Finish and that's that, hence the backlash.  It shows me that a lot of people were desperately wanting Van Dam to win there, and were just pissed beyond belief that they did a Dusty Finish.

 

That is the difference.  This time RVD would be a better option as champ that Taker.  I don't really know if Van Dam would draw ratings or not...it's a crap shoot.  But I do know that Taker isn't going to draw shit as champ.  The WWF needs to realize one thing:  ratings aren't going up again for a very long time.  Having UT as champ will cause more and more people to tune out.  Having RVD as champ might not make millions of new viewers appear out of nowhere, but it will please the viewers they've already got.  

 

I say do the match on PPV, since there have been a few competitive RVD/UT matches I think people would buy RVD as a threat.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Wrong.  Even if RVD is the guy who is going to save the ratings, the chase will draw more than the championship run.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Last night's show wasn't great for the in-ring action, but it did a good job in the storyline advancement. I'd say it was a good show for the most part, the best parts being the nWo angle and the Undertaker-RVD angle. The Austin-Eddy stuff was a bit irritating but I'll wait and see where it's leading before making a call on it. The Lawler angle was cool and it was funny to see the crowd react the way they did (huge pop for the strap coming down, counting with Lawler's moves, etc.).

[Guest]

I'm interested to see what Scott Keith says. He pretty much bashed the PPV Sunday, which alot of us liked also.

[Guest]

I could be wrong, but he'll most likely bash it. I'm not the only one whose noticed that Keith is getting more and more bitter with each passing day, because I've read it elsewhere on other sites. RAW could've been a classic with a **** match from Austin vs. Flair, major angle advancement, RVD winning and keeping the title, and Hulk Hogan being senselessly murdered by Lance Storm... and he STILL wouldn't give the show a thumbs up.

[Guest goodhelmet]

In SK's defense, watch Judgment Day again. Hell In A Cell was a major disappointment. Eddy-RVD and Angle-Edge were great but the rest of the show sucked... bad. As Byron Vester indicated, a couple of decent undercard matches and a shitty show overall , looking more and more like WCW.

 

As for RAW, the actual show sucked The karaoke segment was drawn out way too long complete with bad acting. Did anyone really wish for Booker to side with the NWO (and how many segments did that take up)? Brock-BuhBuh does not excite me. I'll admit, at least they appear to be moving in a different direction but the wrestling, besides the main which was watchable at best, has been non-existent. Eddy-Austin as a feud gets me excited but the actual storyline from last night was shit. And if they're gonna blow off Austin-Flair, why have the crappy handicap match from Judgment Day when you could have had Flair-Austin. There were a lot of holes in last night's show. Anyone who is excited about RAW is excited because of the potential future, not the actual show.

[Guest cabbageboy]

This whole "face chasing the heel champ" thing has never been my cup of tea.  I mean, in the 80s Hogan didn't chase anyone.  He got the title and then the WWF's popularity soared.  Also there was a decent chase with Austin and Michaels but the WWF didn't get more popular than WCW until Austin won the title.  

 

Kahran, let's face it.....no one chasing the Taker is going to draw any ratings.  He has transition champ written all over him.

[Guest]

What the WW(e) would be accomplishing by having RVD even in the Title hunt is that they are looking to younger talent to push to the main event level lets face it Hogan,Undertaker hell even through in Austin and HHH in main event matches will result in slow pacing due to age or roids or lazyness the idea of pushing young talent goes that step of saying ok look at the ratings they are falling fast lets try and stop the bleeding

 

Was last night was horrible in the ring outside of the ring some fresh angles were set up Brock v Bubba, RVD v Taker, Austin v Eddie, and the re-birth of the Nwo i'll take those over all the shit thats been going on sense Wrestlemania 18