Really how good is jericho?

[Guest]

How good is Jericho really?  It's an honest question because I haven't been following his career except fairly recently.  

 

I can see the man is not as agile as benoit or angle and it's plain to see he's gotten to where he's at by hard work...is he getting burried now because HHH never forgave him for working a stiff match with Chyna, or is he getting a depush because, well, he's not big enough or naturally gifted enough to hang with the big boys night after night?

 

I've seen him work INCREDIBLE (benoit, carrying hogan to an OK match a few weeks ago) and I've seen him in HORRIBLE matches (all of his matches v.s. stone cold - just who was to blame for that woo chop mish mash anyway??).

 

If he truly is the next Ric Flair, wouldn't it be a good idea to put him in the NWO now?  I mean, the NWO is one big black hole for heat, but Jericho's lost all credibility anyway - let him learn from "the man"...

 

Just how good is Jericho really?

[Guest caboose]

Just how good is Jericho really?

Better than most, that include Triple H.

[Guest Singular]

Jericho is definetly better than several guys in the main event picture right now like Taker, Hogan, HHH, but I don't think I'd call him the next Ric Flair.

[Guest caboose]

When has anyone called Jericho the next Flair.

If Jericho had a decent finisher(no-submission), then I'd call him closer to Shawn Michaels.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

hes..a...PRICKET

[Guest FakeRazor]

Jericho is awesome if you ask me, probably one of the best workers the WWF has.  Look no further than his matches with Benoit, The Rock, and Kurt Angle, if you want proof.  If you want to get a good idea for the arsenal of moves Jericho really has, watch him in the WCW crusierweight division.

[Guest]

I have to say, Chris Jericho has never really convinced me as a main event player.  His in-ring work is, for the most part, great although he can be wildly inconsistent.  This is in itself a drawback.  But he is just not believable on the mic, although he gets a lot of praise for his charisma and promo skills.  My problem with him is that it is always obvious he is putting on an act, even during his highly-praised work with The Rock late last year.  Kevin Nash and Edge have the same problem, they're just not INSTENSE~! (sorry) enough to convince, always seems like they're secretly loving it.  The whole 'larger than life living legend' shtick just made it obvious that he wasn't in the same league as the big boys as well.  He's been around a long time now, I just can't see Jericho being able to take the final step into bona fide main eventer.  Obviously, the booking has occasionally worked against him but he has been given chance after chance and it's unlikely he'll ever be anything more than a relatively over midcarder who happened to be the first ever Undisputed Champion.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I think Jericho has had some incredibly horrible matches too.  I remember his match with Rhino at SS last year, god that one sucked ass.  Jericho fucked up some major spots in it (though it was said he had a concussion).  His stuff with Austin doesn't click either for some reason.  

 

The main thing holding him back is that most of his offense looks weak.  The lionsault is a clumsy looking move, especially when you have RVD out there doing a split legged moonsault that is a thing of beauty.  His finisher is basically dead, I can't recall anyone tapping to the Walls in a year.  For all the complaining about no one tapping....why would anyone tap?  It's a friggin Boston Crab!  No one has won with a Boston Crab since Rick Martel was the MODEL.  If he did the real Liontamer (where he puts the knee on the back of the head near the neck) it would look better.

 

Jericho has been jobbed out so much at this point that he will never be a serious main eventer.  I like the guy too, but he seemed better in WCW.

[Guest chirs3]

He's got what it takes to main event. From what I've seen (just WWF) he's a good wrestler, he's easily in the top 5 mic workers in the company, and while his offense isn't the most painful looking, he's fun to watch in the ring.

 

It has been a problem, though, being saddled with the Lionsault and the Breakdown, which only looked painful one out of every fifty times. He should stick with The Walls from now on. And bring back the double powerbomb.

 

And like the guy above me said, he's been jobbed out so much. I don't think it's too late for him, but it will take quite a bit of work to build him back up.

[Guest]

...but Jericho's lost all credibility anyway

 

Man, what are you talking about... Jericho is the top heel in the company.

[Guest]

My problem with him is that it is always obvious he is putting on an act, even during his highly-praised work with The Rock late last year.  Kevin Nash and Edge have the same problem, they're just not INSTENSE~! (sorry) enough to convince, always seems like they're secretly loving it.  The whole 'larger than life living legend' shtick just made it obvious that he wasn't in the same league as the big boys as well

Putting on an act? Isn't that what a great gimmick is all about? I mean honestly... does it looks like The Rock's character isn't an act?

 

And I have to disagree with Kevin Nash. Nash has been praised by most recently for his mic work (I feel, along with many, that he should just stay out of the ring and only be used as the spokesperson for the nWo.) Lacks intensity? Did you see the promo he cut on Hogan on the RAW after WrestleMania? That was INTENSE~

[Guest]

Putting on an act? Isn't that what a great gimmick is all about? I mean honestly... does it looks like The Rock's character isn't an act?

 

No, a great gimmick's about making people believe you are who you portray on the screen.  The Rock is fantastic because he is naturally charistmatic and somewhat arrogant, so he can carry off his schtick convincingly and amusingly.  Jericho just doesn't come across as having the self-confidence necessary in being a cocky heel.  He always seems like he's trying too hard to convince, which The Rock never does.  His mic-work in the old WCW midcard was fantastic, but he just doesn't seem like he belongs in the WW---'s upper tier.  If every time he went into the ring, his matches convinced then this wouldn't be so much of a problem, but as covered above often his matches aren't INSTENSE~! enough either.  unconvincing promos + unconvincing offense = not a main eventer.

[Guest]

Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I think Jericho is fantastic. Sure, he's clumsy at times, but for the most part his offense in my opinion, is convincing. The funny thing is... I had never been a fan of Jericho until recently. I was entertained by him in WCW, but for some odd reason I never cared for him that much. I think I truly became a fan when he cut that promo on the Rock right before No Way Out about how he wasn't a transitional champion

[Guest]

I think you mean the one just before Royal Rumble, and you're right - that was great.  It capitalized on the fact that people WEREN'T buying Jericho as a main eventer and that he WAS seen as a transitional champion.  He beat Rocky at the Rumble and maybe, just maybe would have finally got over big-time with his 'I am not a joke champion' gimmick by convincingly beating the biggest names in the company.  So what comes next?  Struggling to beat Rikishi, needing the NWO to beat Austin in a SHIT match, becoming Stephanie's errand boy, driving over HHH's dog and dropping the belt at WrestleMania in what shouldn't even have been the main event.  

 

They had the chance to get Jericho over with a great angle/gimmick, and instead all they did was reiterate the point that he WAS a joke champion.  Way to get the new Undisputed title respected straight off the bat.  And okay, this was the writers not Jericho who did this, but if Jericho was convincing in the first place, writing an angle around the fact he was UN-convincing never would have been necessary.  

 

And also, when he saw how they were flushing his title-run, intentionally or unintentionally, down the toilet why didn't he stamp his feet and get the story changed like Austin, Nash & X-Pac have all done recently?  Because he's a midcarder who was just grateful to be anywhere near the main event and didn't want to rock the boat?   Beat he wishes he'd spoken up now that his careers seems to be an endless job to Triple-H.  

 

I don't mean to be so hard on him because I do like Jericho, it just frustrates me that neither he himself or the promotion seem capable or willing to really turn it up that final notch to elevate him into the top level.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

I think Jericho has the potential to be a star, but he's one of those guys they will have to push really hard to get him there. That's not a bad thing persay, it just means he will be a second tier star like HHH, Macho Man, Goldberg and the Undertaker, one rung below the bonafide superstars like Austin, the Rock, Flair and Hogan.

[Guest]

Look...it's wrestling lore...

 

The big powerful faces are always opposed by the crass, blonde, asshole heel...so Jericho HAS to win 17 World Titles now...LOL!

 

But if Lance Storm could be serious for a minute...

 

I have to say that Jericho has really tailed off since his first World Title win (WCW Title) and I really don't like the fact that he has NEVER defeated HHH cleanly. It's BULLSHIT! I'm not sayin' Trips is holding him back. I'm just saying that maybe the WWE SHOULDN'T make Jericho look like a one-hit wonder...

[Guest]

All that said, Kurt Angle was kinda de-pushed following his first title-run in the feud with Chris Benoit before bouncing back with that gold alongside Vince and Austin later in the year.  So it's not the end of Jericho's career, it's just in a sorry-ass state right now they'll have to work hard to recover.

 

Another point of comparison: 2002: Jericho was starting to get over as a main eventer before it all went to hell with the nonsensical crap involving Triple-H & Stephanie leading up to WM18.

 

2000: Angle was starting to get over before it all went to hell with the nonsensical crap involving Triple-H & Stephanie (the abandoned love triangle storyline killed off a lot of his momentum).  I'm not as anti-HHH as a lot of people on this board, but it kind of makes you think.

 

Anyway, to conclude my answer to the original question, no Jericho is not THAT good (a la Austin, Rock).  But he's QUITE good, and they should be treating him a lot better than they are doing because QUITE good is a hell of a lot better than most in the U.S. game.

[Guest bcu1979]

Just how good is Jericho really?

He's good enough to make a useless piece of crap like Mark Henry look good. He's good enough to carry a crippled 50 year old man to a watchable match. He's certainly good enough to be trotted out everytime Triple H needs someone to make him look good and play his bitch.

 

Jericho is one of the top 5 mic workers in the company. He's proven he can deliver in 20-25 minute WWF style main event matches against the likes of Rock, Triple H, Chris Benoit and others. He oozes charisma and works his ass off every night. And I don't doubt for a minute he could get over huge as a heel if he was ever treated with some credibility for more than a week at a time.

 

Yes, his kicks suck. Yes, he could use another finisher besides the WOJ. Yes, he could use a little less comedy in some of his promos. But Jericho has been on the top of his game ever since they put the title on him. His work has improved. He's cut some of the best promos of the year. And I think he's put to rest all those complaints that he was too sloppy. It's been nine months since that Rhyno match and people are still trying to use it as an excuse for Jericho being stuck in the mid-card.

 

Could Jericho improve more? Of course. But, who couldn't? I don't understand this notion that someone can't be a main eventer just because they have some weaknesses. Rock, Austin and Triple H all have weaknesses. But they are all over as top guys because they are protected and treated as main eventers. Their strengths also greatly outweigh their flaws. The WWF also let them work out their growing pains and helped them grow in the stars they are today. They didn't deem them a failure or sabotage their push at the first sign of trouble.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Chris Jericho (and Kurt Angle for that matter) proved a long time ago that he is a WWF main event wrestler. It's just up to the WWF to give him the same oppurtunites they gave to Austin, Rock and Triple H and have the same patience they have shown in the past.

[Guest Human Fly]

I'd like to see Jericho get more mic time. It seems now whenever he gets mic time now he's whining or someone is outsmarting him. I don't mind the whining, but it's got to be better. When he busted out the rule book against Dean Malenko in WCW it was great. He was whining, but it wasn't just bitching (I'm hurt from HIAC, I can't believe I have to fight Mark Henry, Vince what are you doing, etc., etc.) I guess it really doesn't sound that much different but to me it is.I also miss things like "Raw is Jericho" and stuff like that.

 

For moves I would like to see him bust out the double powerbomb again. Obviously it won't be possible against Mark Henry or HHH but when possible I thought it was a good move. The Liontamer was awesome and needs to come back. I can understand WWF wanting to protect it's workers but man, enough is enough.

[Guest dreamer420]

Jericho is really starting to come into his own this year.  He even carried Hogan to a watchable title watch.  Back when he first entered Jericho was the shit.  Then he portrayed the same charactor night after night for almost 2 and half years, before finally getting just the right mix of The Man Of 1004 Holds and Y2J.  His charactor is much better now and much more watchable.  He is not all about the insults and being a wise ass although I'm sure he will bust that out if needed.  It would be interested to see what would have happened if Jericho retained at Wrestlemania.

[Guest godthedog]

right now, jericho is the second-best active worker in the fed.  only angle is better.  austin WAS ahead of him last year, but think about the mark henry match: if austin had faced him instead, that match would've been a lot worse.  and, aside from angle, he's the only top-level worker that hasn't been injured recently.

 

i think they're going the wrong way with him, making him do short backstage skits instead of doing long in-ring promos.  he's infinitely better at the latter.  if i had the book, i'd build the smackdown brand around jericho (but i'm not the owner of a fortune 500 company).

 

and everybody, stop bringing up the no way out match to try to prove that jericho isn't a good worker.  EVERYBODY was off that night, & the main event was the best match anyway.  it wasn't all that bad.  also, the summerslam match with rhyno was actually a very good match.  i know he fell off the ropes twice, but if you focus on the other 15 minutes of the match you'll see a very well-put-together match.

 

and jericho is a hell of a lot better than triple h right now.

[Guest Anglesault]

and everybody, stop bringing up the no way out match to try to prove that jericho isn't a good worker.  EVERYBODY was off that night, & the main event was the best match anyway.  

 

And Austin was FUMING that night, over the arrival of Hogan Hall and Nash, so he was damned unmotivated. That being said,RVD/Goldust was the best match on the card. The main event sucked and had way to many chops. But don't blame Jericho.

[Guest y2jailbait]

Jericho reminds me of Mr. Perfect back in the day, A mid-card wrestler who everyone wants in the main event, but when there, it just dont seem right. I dont know if im the only one who thinks Jericho should of stayed face, but thats the only conceivable way you couldve put him in the main event. Same with Perfect, but hey, maybe im wrong.

[Guest TheHulkster]

Jericho reminds me of Mr. Perfect back in the day, A mid-card wrestler who everyone wants in the main event, but when there, it just dont seem right. I dont know if im the only one who thinks Jericho should of stayed face, but thats the only conceivable way you couldve put him in the main event. Same with Perfect, but hey, maybe im wrong.

I agree. Jericho is a good heel, but he isn't really a money-making heel. As a face, he at least drew good merchandising dollars. You put Jericho in a match with anyone in the main event of a PPV, it isn't really going to draw huge box office. He could be the best booked chickenshit heel the world has ever seen, but I just can't see him being a huge draw as a heel.