MMA FAQ

[Lei Tong 0]

...or whatever the guys at UFC say.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Ha, I always figured it was good to get more opinions on the matter.

 

The other thing about gi, I hate training in no gi and not knowing the skill level of my opponent, at least if I spar with a purple belt I can prepare to get my ass kicked.

[cameron chaos 0]

The best submission grapplers in the world today still compete and use the gi for training, only taking it off 6 weeks to a month before big competition so they can adjust their grips. The technical aspect actually is a bonus as you have to use correct application of technique to win, you have more options in a gi than without one (chokes, using the gi to trap them), however 90% of what you do no gi can be used in gi training.

 

As for guard types, there's too many. Open guard, closed guard, rubber guard, turtle guard, spider guard, X guard, De La Riva guard, Roleta guard, pinball guard... all just different ways to describe leg positioning.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Turtle Guard? Pinball Guard? Spider Guard? You must enlighten.

[cameron chaos 0]

Eduardo Telles has trademarked the turtle guard in the same way Marcelo Garcia has trademarked the armdrag. It's basically attacking solely from having given your back. Some also refer to it as monk guard as it is more of a self defense position and also resembles a monk praying. Kneebars, kimura, sweeps and reversals are the bread and butter of this game. I hope to train with Telles in a couple of weeks while he is visiting London so hopefully he can help me out in this area a lot.

 

Pinball guard is a cross between X guard and De La Riva guard from what I have seen, with your opponent semi squatting with one of your shins behind their respective knee and one foot on the hip to control distance. The foot on their hips can also be used on their quad to try stop kicks and stomps. Kneebars, calf crunches and sweeps are generally the only things I have seen obtained from this. Stephan Kesting is known for developing this.

 

Spider guard is when you control your opponent's wrists and either use your shins or feet in their biceps to control their upper body. Omoplatas, armbars, kimuras, triangles and sweeps are what you will usually see from here.

[I like Forums 0]

Teach me all about "underhooks".

[Guest Brian]

Underhooks are when you get your arm under their armpit when you lock up with something. It gives you superior control (center of gravity-wise), more power, and allows you to change levels quickly.

[I like Forums 0]

Doesn't it leave you open to strikes?

[Guest Brian]

If your body is in close enough, your opponent can't draw a tone of power to throw hard stuff, and you can often nullify good knees (though not completely). Plus, from underhooks, takedowns are easy, and you have a lower center of gravity.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

For punches to be effective they need the weight of the person throwing them behind them. With underhooks, you control your opponents mobility which makes it difficult to get anything on the punches. Besides, once you get underhooks, it doesn't take very long before you're either taking your opponent down, or you lost it.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Old school vale tudo you could headbutt someone who had the underhooks on you. But no more

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

What are the essential shows to watch?

[Guest CurryMan]

What fights is the most action packed and competitive that you need to get your hands on?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I've downloaded a bundle of UFC's (11, Ultimate Ultimate 2, 12, 13, 14, and 15) and I almost want to say that UFC 13: Ultimate Force is essential viewing. You get both Randy Coutures debut (fucking awesome performance, better than I remember) and Tito Ortizes debut (which is almost surreal to watch today), and Belfort during his Phenom days. This, of course, compliments the past year+ of UFC history. And you get to see Joe Rogan do post-fight interviews. What's that saying? The more things change...

[Damaramu 0]

Well I watched the first 5 UFC's when I was a kid then pretty much left MMA. I got Pride 10 and 20 about a 2 years ago and I enjoyed them.

 

Now since I've been studying Judo and Jiu-Jitsu I have gotten more interested in UFC. I started watching the show on Spike TV. But I want to for nostalgia purposes get the first couple of UFCs.

UFC has them on video but not DVD on the website but anyone know where I can get them cheaper?

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Check Brian's signature *cheap plug*

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

You may want to check some video stores in your area. There's at least two places within walking distance where I live that has UFC tapes (Blockbuster and an smaller chain), so they're not exactly rare.

[Guest Brian]

The only earlier show I have is 6 (until you get into double digits). I find the earlier shows to be entertaining at times (Joe Son, multiple nut shots), but not worth collecting at the moment.

[Damaramu 0]

What went on in those earlier shows? Were they any good? I seem to remember it always being a foregone conclusion that Gracie was going to whip everyone's ass.

[Damaramu 0]

Hey since I'm a noob what happened to Tito Ortiz? Did he disappear after Liddell handed it to him?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Ortiz appeared on the last UFC show. He is going to be a coach on TUF3 along with Ken Shamrock. He has a 3 fight deal, one fight against Forrest Griffin, one fight against Shamrock, and one against whoever is champion (depending on his success in the first two fights). There is a video interview with him on UFC.tv. Before that, he and Dana White were in a bitter rivalry since Tito was asking for more money than the UFC and Zuffa were willing to spend (They notoriously underpay fighters). It got to the point to where, when Tito was affiliated with Ivan Salaverry, White barred Tito from cornering Salaverry and didn't allow Salaverry to be sponsored by Titos clothing company - Punishment Athletics.

 

To get to your first question, UFC's sorta come in different phases.

 

UFC 1-5 was the Royce Gracie era. This era didn't have time limits or many rules and MMA was still very much in its infancy. Style vs. Style, usually 1 sided fights. UFC 2 is worth getting just for the mind-blowing brutality. UFC 1, 3, 4 and 5 have their moments (UFC 1s awful commentary, 3 has Kimo vs. Gracie which doesn't stand up too well but is historic none-the-less considering Kimo *still* makes a living off that performance, UFC 4 has Dan Severns debut which is impressive, and 5 has Gracie/Shamrock which was notable for several reasons, most notable for being horrifically boring). No really "great" fights, just great moments.

 

UFC 6-11/Ultimate Ultimate 96 represents the rise of wrestlers, of more rules, and the beginning of multi-skilled fighters (I won't say cross-trained just yet). Plus you get guys like Tank Abbott, Mark Coleman, Don Frye, Marco Ruas, Gary Goodridge all debuting during this time. These were the last days of the full on tournament. Fights got better, a little more even. Guys were starting to be a lil more developed.

 

UFC 12-Ultimate Brazil era is what I call the Vitor Belfort Era, or the Bronze Age of MMA. This is when MMA, at least in America and the UFC, really started to take form. A BJJ fighter who knocks guys out with quick hands, a Greco Roman wrestler submitting guys, a Kickboxer effectively using the guard - this was the birth of the crosstrained fighter. Guys who were single-disciplined fighters, but began to train specifically for MMA. You have guys like Mark Kerr, Vitor Belfort, Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz, Mo Smith, TK, Frank Shamrock, Kazushi Sakuraba, Pedro Rizzo, Pat Miletich, Carlos Newton, Dan Henderson, Wanderlei Silva fighting on these cards. Unlike the first 12 UFC's, you don't have one specific style dominating, it's wide-open. These events were typically very fun to watch and you can really start to see connections to todays fighting. Lots of changes, weight divisions and titles, time limits and rounds and rules and stuff.

 

UFC 18-28 was pretty much the dark ages. You can find up to 20 on tape, but after that you won't be very successful cept for maybe UFC 22. There weren't a lot of great matches on these shows as the UFCs owners SEG didn't have a lot of money to spend. But by 28, they had Couture returning and winning the heavyweight title, and Ortiz was their middleweight champion. Zuffa soon came and bought the company, changed up the divisions, and started to rebuild the company off the backs of both Couture and Ortiz. Cards got a lot better, but there were ups and downs and they were still trying to find their rhythm. The round system became initiated during this time.

 

Which pretty much leads us to the last 3 years.

Edited December 11, 2005 by RavishingRickRudo

[Damaramu 0]

So is Gracie really that good or was it just a styles clash where his style was just better than what everyone else was using?

Who was the first person to really beat him in UFC? Was it Shamrock? Did he pound him and win convincingly?

 

Also Shamrock is still fighting!? Is he any good anymore?

[Guest Brian]

Basically, it was a styles clash and Gracie's style was much better suited. It'd be a stretch to call Gracie a well-rounded fighter in those early days.

 

Shamrock never beat Gracie. In their second fight, knowing Gracie's ability to submit him had already been proven, we all learned the meaning of "lay and pray".

[Damaramu 0]

So did anyone kick Gracie's ass?

I mean Gracie is still a bad-ass in real life isn't he? He's not a guy you want to fuck with in a dark alley right?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Kimo was the first one to show that Gracie was human. After Gracie won that fight, he couldn't continue in the tournament and had to be helped out of the ring by his family.

 

Shamrock claims victory over Gracie because in Kens world, if you can't beat him, he beat you. Plus he got off a punch or two which busted up Gracies face. I'll take Royce tapping Kenny out at UFC 1 as an indicator of who the better fighter was

 

I am a shameless Royce Gracie fan, btw.

 

Royces first actual loss in MMA was against Kazushi Sakuraba at the Pride openweight GP in 2000. That fight was composed of unlimited 15 minute time limits. It went 6 rounds. Yeah, a 90 minute fight. It was freakin awesome. And fuck anyone who writes off Royce as someone who could only fight worthless hacks, cause Royce looked good in the inital stages of that fight. Royce is still badass. Fuck the haters. He fights just about every year now, during New Years Eve. Last year he beat Akebono, who was well over twice his size (and an awful fighter, but still...) and Royce tapped him with a wristlock/omaplata style submission move. He had two fights against Hidehiko Yoshida, a Judo Gold Medalist. Their first fight ended in controversy as Yoshida had a choke on Gracie, and the position was that you couldn't see Royces face, Yoshida told the ref that Gracie was out-cold and the ref stopped the fight. Royce wasn't out, though. The Gracies fought the decision, since Royce fights under modified rules and one of those rules states that the ref can't stop the fight. Yoshida, however, was the better fighter that night, so it is still hard to argue that fight in Royces favour. Their second fight ended up a draw (as per Gracie rules), but since Royce would have one had it gone to the judges, the Gracies essentially claimed a moral victory even if they didn't get a technical one.

[Damaramu 0]

So if any of us ran into Gracie in a back alley or some sort of street fight he'd fuck us up? Right?

 

And since I wasn't around at the time but I just saw the highlights on the DVD I'd like to say that it was satisfying to see Ortiz knocked out after he talked so much trash to Chuck. And Chuck just brushed him off and was like "Whatever" everytime Ortiz started in.

Didn't Ortiz dominate for a time there?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yes. Royce would fuck us all up. Cept me. I'd fucking crush him. No lie.

 

Tito beat Wanderlei Silva, Yuki Kondo, Evan Tanner, Elvis Sinosic (after tapping out Jeremy Horn) and Vladimir Matyushenko in succession. His performances, especially the dominating ones over Kondo, Tanner, and Sinosic, were strong enough to put him at the top of the heap. 2000 and 2001 were very good years for Ortiz. After the Matyushenko fight, things really started to slow down.

[AboveAverage484 0]

Yes. Royce would fuck us all up. Cept me. I'd fucking crush him. No lie.

 

Tito beat Wanderlei Silva, Yuki Kondo, Evan Tanner, Elvis Sinosic (after tapping out Jeremy Horn) and Vladimir Matyushenko in succession. His performances, especially the dominating ones over Kondo, Tanner, and Sinosic, were strong enough to put him at the top of the heap. 2000 and 2001 were very good years for Ortiz. After the Matyushenko fight, things really started to slow down.

 

I don't know, if you've got any type of takedown defense at all, you could fuck Royce up. He's not exactly known for his standup.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think Royce proved he could kick the shit out of any everyman, and even high skilled guys in different disciplines. I would also venture to say that Royces stand up is better than most, if not all, of the guys here given the technique in his stand up against Sakuraba. Royce just doesn't have the frame to deliver any meaningful powershots. Let's not start thinking anyone here is of a high level calibre of MMA fighter or even in anyones league. Royce is a BJJ black belt, he'd school everyone here.

 

But me, of course. I'd clinch and destroy him with my knees. He'd try to trip me but my balance is Fedor-like and I'd pivot and get side control, work my elbows as I hold position, and then finish him with Silva style stomps. No. SHOGUN style stomps.

[The Dames 0]

Now, just to be a big fair, I don't want Damaramu to see an old Royce Gracie fight and be disappointed by the hype...

 

As someone who recently just got into MMA, I did go back and download the first 1-11 shows...

 

Royce is only a 180 lb fighter and fights with a Gi on, so if you were to see him in a back alley, you wouldn't be intimidated by him if you had no idea who he was. I don't believe he ever won a fight, at least in the UFC, via knockout. He was a technician who schooled the world that technique can over come sheer strength and power and he had a Bret Hart esque presence. You weren't intimidated by his size or strength, but you still wouldn't want to fuck with his technique.

 

With that being said, he straight up EMBARRASSED a few cats back in the day. Especially his first fight in UFC, against a straight up BOXER named Art Jimmerson. This fool came to the Octagon with only one boxing glove on and the moment Royce took him down, Jimmerson was simply unable to move himself at all...and tapped out due to pure frustration and realizing that he had absolutely zero ground game.

 

Oh and by the way, no one knew what the guard was in the US until Royce used it to nullify everyones offense and showed why BJJ is considered by the most dominant fight style in the world today.

 

Dames

Edited December 11, 2005 by The Dames