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MikeJordan23

Outlaws talking about Triple H

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Guest J0bber

Sounds like HHH was the one that ratted out that BG James was on drugs. What a bastard.

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*

 

Throughout the entire thing, regardless of validity, Gunn seems like one bitter guy. Most of his diatribe is based on the notion that he believes he could've been some upper-tier guy... but the fact of the matter is that Vince and Co. gave him push after push and he just couldn't remain over as a singles wrestler. He like the charisma and the ability to get it done by himself at that level.

 

And considering the turn that the company has taken in the wake of Eddie's death, I can't imagine how or why anyone would sympathize with the "He told people we were doing drugs.!" Ulterior motives or not, that's not really a heavy compaint you can lodge against a person.

 

The bottom line is that I think that both of those guys are talented tag wrestlers, but that's about the end of it.

 

(Note: I will grant them the point on the Orton thing. And also Note: I am by no means a Hunter apologist.)

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Guest J0bber
*

 

Throughout the entire thing, regardless of validity, Gunn seems like one bitter guy. Most of his diatribe is based on the notion that he believes he could've been some upper-tier guy... but the fact of the matter is that Vince and Co. gave him push after push and he just couldn't remain over as a singles wrestler. He like the charisma and the ability to get it done by himself at that level.

 

And considering the turn that the company has taken in the wake of Eddie's death, I can't imagine how or why anyone would sympathize with the "He told people we were doing drugs.!" Ulterior motives or not, that's not really a heavy compaint you can lodge against a person.

 

The bottom line is that I think that both of those guys are talented tag wrestlers, but that's about the end of it.

 

(Note: I will grant them the point on the Orton thing. And also Note: I am by no means a Hunter apologist.)

 

I'll agree with you that Gunn came off as bitter. He used fuck like a hundred times. Anyone else notice how BG James kind of just sat there and let him bitch. James' eyes bugged out a little when Billy said he would kick the crap out of HHH if he saw him. Do you really believe Billy would kick HHH's ass if he saw him? I perhaps don't think so, but I would love to see someone pound the hell out of HHH.

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All I can think of now is an Edge quote from 2001...

 

"Bitter Billy Bitchcakes."

 

To be fair, he was pretty much right about the Orton situation, though.

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All I can think of now is an Edge quote from 2001...

 

"Bitter Billy Bitchcakes."

 

To be fair, he was pretty much right about the Orton situation, though.

or my favorite "Billy is like a human vaccum cleaner, managing to both SUCK and BLOW at the same time"

 

Kip should just chill, I mean teh only time he was really over was in DX in 1998 and that had more to do with the group assocaition and his partnership with the very charasmatic Road Dogg. The only time he could have been something is when he feuded with Shamrock over teh IC title, but he lost at the Rumble (whether or not you believe he was originally supposed to win is up to you)The heel tuen took away any overness he had and he was relegated to having to reform the Outlaws in Sept to salvage his career.

 

The Billy and Chuck team was never really over and despite the media attention over the Wedding fiasco, he never was worth much again.

 

At the end he kept getting hurt and was relegated to teaming with Bob Holly (ironic since he used to team with Billys "Brother" Bart as the New Midnigth Express) on Velocity mostly.

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Guest JMA

I'm pretty sure that Kip could take Hunter.

 

Whether or not he would intentionally attack him is anyone's guess, though.

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Guest JMA
All I can think of now is an Edge quote from 2001...

 

"Bitter Billy Bitchcakes."

 

To be fair, he was pretty much right about the Orton situation, though.

Funny you should bring up that promo (which was indeed a good promo). In hindsight, it seems that Edge really did "Billy Gunn" his KOTR victory.

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All I can think of now is an Edge quote from 2001...

 

"Bitter Billy Bitchcakes."

 

To be fair, he was pretty much right about the Orton situation, though.

Funny you should bring up that promo (which was indeed a good promo). In hindsight, it seems that Edge really did "Billy Gunn" his KOTR victory.

 

At least Edge had the excuse of an injury. Billy had nothing.

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Guest JMA

All I can think of now is an Edge quote from 2001...

 

"Bitter Billy Bitchcakes."

 

To be fair, he was pretty much right about the Orton situation, though.

Funny you should bring up that promo (which was indeed a good promo). In hindsight, it seems that Edge really did "Billy Gunn" his KOTR victory.

 

At least Edge had the excuse of an injury. Billy had nothing.

Didn't Billy get injured as well? I remember an angle where DX kicked him out because he was injured. I recall that they had a chance to do something with him when he came back from that, but they blew it. I've never been a big Billy Gunn fan, but he could've become an upper-midcarder with the right push. He wasn't good in the ring, but neither was Lex Luger. It didn't help that he still used the same name from when he was in the Smokin' Gunns either.

 

As for Edge, he should've been WWE champion by now. He's another guy whose return from an injury was handled badly (just why did he attack Bischoff and who exactly attacked him?).

 

In all fairness, the bookers need to share the blame for ANYONE "Billy Gunning" the KOTR--even Billy Gunn. Except for maybe Mabel/Viscera. No amount of good boking could've saved that.

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They tried making something out of Billy Gunn, but you know the saying about chicken salad. Gunn was like Luger, but Luger had a better body and, at certain points in his career, was able to connect to the crowd on his own. The only time Gunn could get over to any degree was when he had Road Dogg's chrisma to leach off of. Gunn had all the charisma of a pile of dirt, and that, even more than his lack of any talent, made sure he would never get anywhere, despite every effort on the WWF's part.

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Guest JMA
They tried making something out of Billy Gunn, but you know the saying about chicken salad. Gunn was like Luger, but Luger had a better body and, at certain points in his career, was able to connect to the crowd on his own. The only time Gunn could get over to any degree was when he had Road Dogg's chrisma to leach off of. Gunn had all the charisma of a pile of dirt, and that, even more than his lack of any talent, made sure he would never get anywhere, despite every effort on the WWF's part.

I was always a little perplexed how Luger was able to connect to crowds. Perhaps it was just residual heat from the 80's bodybuilding wrestler craze. Or maybe he just had some kind of Sid factor.

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Billy was fucked way before he suffered that injury. Remember, by this time his upper-midcard push had already bombed and he had basically been turned into a glorified lackey for HHH and Steph. At least with Edge he seemed to be on the verge of something good at the time he went down.

 

I do agree that Billy could've turned out a little better than he did. I think the problem with him is that while they seemed to want to push him, they never seemed to stick with it when they tried. For instance, I don't think he was doing so poorly after the Rock feud that they needed to scrap his whole singles push, as he could've just as easily fit into the I-C picture at the time.

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I think it's unfair to blame anyone for "Billy Gunning" a KOTR (despite it being a hilarious term) since it's pretty much the writer's discretion. Edge has had some injuries, but for the most part, he's remained fairly over, put on decent-good matches, and been a solid upper midcarder. That's far more than can be said for Billy. I think Edge needs a title run to shake the stigma that he can't be a ME'er... Only problem being that I see an Edge title run turning out much like Jericho's in 02.

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When Billy Gunn came back from the rotator cuff injury in late-2000, Gunn was MASSIVELY over. I mean, this guy was sometimes getting the biggest pops of the show and WWE did NOTHING with him. I don't like Billy Gunn at all, but Jesus, when the crowd responds to something so huge, shouldn't you push him? After Gunn lost the IC Title to Chris Benoit, he just floundered around on Heat & Jakked/Metal until he bitched out Edge the night after KotR 2001.

 

Gunn's got a right to be bitter.

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Where is this from?

 

Their new RF shoot.

 

A poster on The History of WWE message board uploaded this for our own personal enjoyment Dec. 29. Between then and now it's received 68,000 hits.

 

Today it got plugs on both PWInsider and the Observer website.

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Billy Gunn didn't have any serious heat when he came back in 2000. I remember being flat out sick at my stomach when he beat Eddie for the IC title. Note that they realized what a brainfart that was and had Benoit beat him pronto in a squash.

 

Of all the guys HHH has fucked over, why use Orton as the main example? Look, they gave Orton a major push and while they jobbed him to HHH after 1 month with the belt it was in theory meant to build to a big Orton chase where he would get the title back at WM. It was Orton's own lack of any kind of heat that killed him. Does HHH like Batista a lot more than Orton and was willing to put him over instead? I don't really buy that, it was mostly that they fucked up and turned Orton face and he wasn't worth a damn and tanked.

 

Here are the guys who HHH has truly dicked over: Chris Jericho, Rob Van Dam, Booker T., and to some degree Kane. The Kane stuff was mostly the idiotic Katie Vick angle and losing his mask to HHH without ever getting any real revenge. Jericho was obviously fucked over from the moment he entered the company, from the nonsensical feuds with the dubious likes of X-Pac and Road Dog to jobbing clean to Chyna, to of course the various humiliating jobs to HHH. That's not even going into his flop title run that HHH sabotaged and then treated him like a jobber.

 

How about RVD? In 2001-02 Van Dam was perhaps the freshest, most over guy on the roster. So what does HHH do? Eliminates him from the 2002 Rumble (which drew major boos from the crowd), then has a pseudo feud where Hunter mostly used it to badmouth RVD and say how unfit he was to be in the ring with him....and then have RVD job the IC title and then get the booking changed in the PPV match to where HHH retained. And then saw to it that RVD was buried and used as filler in his neverending Michaels feud, then had him teamed with his partner in burial...Kane.

 

Booker T. While I don't think Booker has ever been massively over in WWE, he did get over enough to have a title program. In this program HHH treated Booker like a joke, made various vaguely racist comments about "his people not being fit to main event," then tossed towels at Booker along with a couple of $$ to humiliate him further...and then have him job at WM 19.

 

So what if HHH puts over Batista or a couple other unready rookies? Take a look at the veteran talent there that he had buried.

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After Gunn lost the IC Title to Chris Benoit, he just floundered around on Heat & Jakked/Metal...

As he should have. He had two bad matches with Benoit, which is just about impossible unless you suck terribly, and he almost dropped Benoit on his head in both of them.

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All I can think of now is an Edge quote from 2001...

 

"Bitter Billy Bitchcakes."

 

To be fair, he was pretty much right about the Orton situation, though.

Funny you should bring up that promo (which was indeed a good promo). In hindsight, it seems that Edge really did "Billy Gunn" his KOTR victory.

 

At least Edge had the excuse of an injury. Billy had nothing.

Didn't Billy get injured as well? I remember an angle where DX kicked him out because he was injured. I recall that they had a chance to do something with him when he came back from that, but they blew it. I've never been a big Billy Gunn fan, but he could've become an upper-midcarder with the right push. He wasn't good in the ring, but neither was Lex Luger. It didn't help that he still used the same name from when he was in the Smokin' Gunns either.

 

As for Edge, he should've been WWE champion by now. He's another guy whose return from an injury was handled badly (just why did he attack Bischoff and who exactly attacked him?).

 

In all fairness, the bookers need to share the blame for ANYONE "Billy Gunning" the KOTR--even Billy Gunn. Except for maybe Mabel/Viscera. No amount of good boking could've saved that.

by the time he returned in sept 2000, DX was over, and Trips was busy with Angle

 

and why is it called "Billy Gunning" the King title, shouldnt it really be "Mabeling" it? I mean he did get a main event at summerslam, but thats about it. But I guess thats better then billy at least.

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Guest JMA

Since Mabel is the worst KOTR winner, the term should be "Mabeling." Mabel just wasn't around when Edge did his promo on Gunn. I think Billy was doing that terrible "The One" gimmick at the time.

 

That was even worse than "Rockabilly."

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Since Mabel is the worst KOTR winner, the term should be "Mabeling." Mabel just wasn't around when Edge did his promo on Gunn. I think Billy was doing that terrible "The One" gimmick at the time.

 

That was even worse than "Rockabilly."

I used to refer to him at the time as "The One" (Who Sucks) Billy Gunn.

 

his theme song for that period (I've Got it All, on the VOL 5 CD) was just horrid too. Baiscally the same song as "Assman" (same singer too I believe) but with different lyrics.

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The thing is though, even Vince and Co. realized the Mabel push was a complete disaster and jobbed him to Nash and tried to forget it. It's not referred to as "Mabeling" the KOTR title since they tried to quickly forget that ever happened. As in if Edge brings that up, it only reminds people that yes, Mabel did in fact win KOTR.

 

It's called "Billy Gunning" the KOTR because him winning was originally designed to get him over and maybe launch him as a singles. Thing is, he was essentially heatless and the Rock buried his ass on the mic so bad that they really couldn't push him beyond that. It was hilarious hearing Rock tear into him though.

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All right, first off, let me say that Billy does come off as really bitter and unjustified in the video. He's mad that he didn't get a better push so he's blaming everything on HHH and giving him way more credit for his (Gunn's) problems than he's really due.

 

However, with that being said, I think the WWE really missed the boat on Billy Gunn. The Assman gimmick was over really solidly as an upper midcard heel before he got hurt. He was at least as over as someone like Eddie Guerrero at the time and probably moreso.

 

So, he comes back from injury, and they promptly replace his cocky heel gimmick with........nothing. That's right, he loses his gimmick to Right to Censor in his first match back, and then has no gimmick whatsoever for months.

 

After that, he does the gay gimmick with Chuck. Despite the fact that gay tag teams haven't really gotten over since the 70s, he manages to make it very entertaining and they become the premier heel tag team in the WWE. And not in the sense of today's tag teams where they're just the only ones around; Chuck and Billy were actually really entertaining.

 

So finally, that runs its course, and what happens? The gay tag team manages to turn face. And everybody loves it! After the gay wedding, Billy and Chuck had tons of face heat, and they're match against 3MW was probably the second most anticipated on the Summerslam card.

 

So what do they do then with Billy and Chuck, now that they're hugely over as faces. Oh, they just take them off TV for a couple months until everyone loses interest in them. Then, they make half-assed attempts to put Billy Gunn into tag teams with random wrestlers and wonder why he's not "over" any more.

 

I mean really, for as successful and popular as he was, Billy Gunn really didn't get a decent push at all.

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