Jamie Knoble is the Best ROH wrestler ever

[Guest wildpegasus]

Lots of times I'm dissapointed with the big 5 star matchups from ROH as I always find they're always overrated. It's actually the matches that aren't talked about quite as much that I find are the best matches from the organisation.

 

So I've some of Styles, Dragon, Lo Ki, Joe, Aeries, Strong, London, Spanky, CM Punk and others in ROH. However, the guy whose work has impressed me the most is Jamie Knoble's. He's more natural in the ring, his matches have been more engrossing, his selling is the best in the league and his moveset is truly great. I've been won over by his work in ROH.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Meh, not really.

[Hawk 34 0]

Bryan Danielson, easily has a much better catalouge of matches in ROH alone.

 

While I believe Gibson is an excellent worker and deserves praise, he isn't Bryan Danielson.

 

Of course, I had Gibson/Danielson #1 on my top 20 of 2005 list, but Danielson was more active on that list, including two spots on my top 5 (against Gibson and Strong).

 

Danielson, does everything right and his current heel run is nothing short of remarkable.

[World's Worst Man 0]

I don't see anything that Gibson does better than Joe, other than maybe the act of selling itself, because Joe's selling tends to be fairly unnatural, even if his knowledge of when and how to sell is top notch. But truthfully, Gibson's selling gets to be rather goofy and unnatural as well, so I'm not so sure.

 

And Danielson, I really don't see anything Gibson does better. There are times when it feels like Gibson isn't as intense or into the match as he should be, which leads to a flat feeling. Not all the time, but I've noticed it in patches of his work. Really not sure how the conclusion that Gibson is the best is reached.

[Hawk 34 0]

I don't see anything that Gibson does better than Joe, other than maybe the act of selling itself, because Joe's selling tends to be fairly unnatural, even if his knowledge of when and how to sell is top notch. But truthfully, Gibson's selling gets to be rather goofy and unnatural as well, so I'm not so sure.

 

And Danielson, I really don't see anything Gibson does better. There are times when it feels like Gibson isn't as intense or into the match as he should be, which leads to a flat feeling. Not all the time, but I've noticed it in patches of his work. Really not sure how the conclusion that Gibson is the best is reached.

 

It's probably because Gibson patterns himself after WP's boy.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I like Noble's charisma better too. And he may have been in the first ROH match I've ever seen where you could actually feel the crowd get behind a wrestler instead of just cheering for both guys all the way through. Now that impressed me because man you know you're a worker when you got the ability to do that.

 

KENTA vs Ki came close to that but I didn't feel it as much there.

 

Hawk34, I'm starting to see we have differences in the matches we like so that maybe why I take to Noble more than you do. Different strokes for different folks.

[The Buzz 0]

Gibson had some good stuff, but I think he falls in the lower end of the top ten of ROH's best talent from 2002-now.

[Hawk 34 0]

I like Noble's charisma better too. And he may have been in the first ROH match I've ever seen where you could actually feel the crowd get behind a wrestler instead of just cheering for both guys all the way through. Now that impressed me because man you know you're a worker when you got the ability to do that.

 

KENTA vs Ki came close to that but I didn't feel it as much there.

 

Hawk34, I'm starting to see we have differences in the matches we like so that maybe why I take to Noble more than you do. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Well, I did include a pair of Gibson matches in my 2005 top 20 list, so it's not like I hate Gibson's work. It's just Danielson, has a better catalouge, especially as an ROH worker. Which, is what the subject line indicates.

 

How exactly can you make a comment that ROH fans doesn't get behind one wrestler completely, when Joe, Punk, Homicide, Danielson, and others accomplish the same thing.

[Michrome 0]

Gibson was consistently outclassed in his ROH run by Samoa Joe, Bryan Danielson, CM Punk, and even Roderick Strong.

 

He had some good matches, but his work is flawed in ways that limits him. He is very solid in 10 minute matches, but anything over 15 and he really goes downhill. His pacing is his most obvious flaw. With the exception of the Danielson match, where Danielson guided the pacing, all of Noble's long matches dragged terribly at the end. They pretty much all fell into a pattern of exchanging big moves and doing double KO slow clap spots. These are good for drama maybe 2 or 3 times in a match but Noble seriously did them upwards of 10 times in big matches, it is just tiresome to watch.

 

In CM Punk's final heel run, his worst singles match was against Jamie Noble, and it was for the reason listed above. The whole ending just dragged endlessly. Punk even had a better match with Lethal.

 

My favorite Noble matches in ROH are vs. Spanky (2/25), vs. Aries (4/16), and vs. Strong (10/2).

 

Danielson has matches that are definitely better against all 3. Gibson/Danielson was also real good, but mostly because Danielson didn't let him do all the double KO stuff.

 

Edit: Couple of examples of the bad Gibson matches just to further illustrate:

 

vs. Daniels (9/24): This went 25 minutes and felt like 250. Just endless double KO and meandering finish.

 

vs. Cabana (8/27): Pretty much the same, good opening 10 but the last 15 completely killed the crowd with about 20 double KO spots.

[Hawk 34 0]

^ Pretty much agreed, also you can add Gibson/Black Tiger from Manhattan Mayhem onto that list. Although, I perfered the rematch with Aries over the draw. I felt his match with Yang, was another example of what worked with Gibson.

 

You forgot to mention the diaster that was the triple threat with Cabana and Homicide.

[Michrome 0]

I assume you mean spanky and homicide, I chose to never watch that.

 

I should add a couple more I liked...Whitmer (5/14) and Black Tiger (5/7) were both very good matches.

 

Another thing is, I think WP is basing this off Strong vs. Gibson....it should be noted that was Gibson's farewell, so of course the whole crowd got behind him.

[DangerousDamon 0]

^ Pretty much agreed, also you can add Gibson/Black Tiger from Manhattan Mayhem onto that list. Although, I perfered the rematch with Aries over the draw. I felt his match with Yang, was another example of what worked with Gibson.

 

You forgot to mention the diaster that was the triple threat with Cabana and Homicide.

 

I thought that was Spanky in the triple threat match?

[mfn 0]

Strong is my personal favorite.

[Guest Coffey]

Gibson had an amazing '05 and arguably was the Wrestler-of-the-year for ROH in that year. However, that's really his only good year (and only, really, non-WWE/WCW year).

 

Just because of longevity, I'd have to go with Samoa Joe. Besides, Joe/Kobashi was better than any match Gibson had.

[Hawk 34 0]

^ Pretty much agreed, also you can add Gibson/Black Tiger from Manhattan Mayhem onto that list. Although, I perfered the rematch with Aries over the draw. I felt his match with Yang, was another example of what worked with Gibson.

 

You forgot to mention the diaster that was the triple threat with Cabana and Homicide.

 

I thought that was Spanky in the triple threat match?

 

Yeah, It was Spanky. I got confused because Cabana also had a shot at the title around the same time period.

[Si82 0]

In CM Punk's final heel run, his worst singles match was against Jamie Noble, and it was for the reason listed above. The whole ending just dragged endlessly. Punk even had a better match with Lethal.

I liked that match.

[Hawk 34 0]

In CM Punk's final heel run, his worst singles match was against Jamie Noble, and it was for the reason listed above. The whole ending just dragged endlessly. Punk even had a better match with Lethal.

I liked that match.

 

Punk, had a better match with Gibson in FIP.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Yeah, I saw the Punk/Gibson match recently. Towards the end, you know they were building towards the finish, but instead of being on the edge of your seat waiting for it you were left wondering why they were stalling so long.

[Tim Cooke 0]

Touching on a few points:

 

* Mike is right about the length problems Gibson has. Watch his 5/1/04 Velocity match with Rey Misterio Jr. Now Rey Jr. is obviously fantastically great, but Noble does his end perfectly too. About 11 1/2 minutes aired on TV (match probably went 14-15 total) and it worked so well. The match also has one of my favorite sequences ever as Noble whips Rey into the ropes, Rey springboards off the second rope into a flying crossbody (one of his signature spots) into a cover, which Noble rolls through and locks on a cross armbreaker for a great near submission after he spent most of his time working Rey's arm. But those longer ROH matches have WAY WAY WAY too many of those double KO/clap clap clap spots which are second on my most annoyed list in wrestling behind someone lazily locking on a figure four headscissors (Tenyru, Ki).

 

* Noble's strength involves him working over an arm. He has signature spots (dropkick arm into turnbuckle) along with basic kneedrops, leg drops on the arm. I have also seen him work the leg and neck effectivly.

 

* In 2005 as ROH wanted to differenciate itself from TNA, you saw a lot less out and out spot fest for slower matches taking their time building to the finish. That's all well and good in theory, but unless the guys in the ring can make it work, it will results in finisher/finisher/finisher sequences or double KO's numerous times. This happened a lot in Gibson's matches.

 

* I am a big fan of Noble, have been since he debuted on Saturday Night in October 1999. He was easily the best cruiserweight in WCW in Jan-Feb 2001. His tombstone piledriver is so brutal looking though you know it is safe since he does a last second clamping of the knees to protect the guys head. Even his dumbed down HWA work so the WWF guys could teach those "Power Plant" guys how to work is fun. I think Noble best excels in fast paced sprints, specifically in tags. Watch his early 2001 WCW work to see that.

 

But best wrestler in ROH? Certainly not for me.

 

Tim

[Jingus 0]

I've only seen two of Gibson's ROH matches: 2/26 vs. Puma and 5/13 vs. Austin Aries. The match with Aries was awesome, featuring great spots and compelling psychology. The one with Puma made me fall asleep. Not a "witty" burn on the match, I mean it literally, I fell asleep watching that match. I watched it again later, and came to the conclusion that I was right the first time.

[Michrome 0]

The Puma match was one of his worst (and most boring). The beginning had some nice stuff but it went too long.

[Jingus 0]

And oh yeah, forgot, also saw the Noble/Spanky/Nigel vs. Joe/Danielson/Vordell match from the Trios Tournament, which was fun, but definitely went too long and looked like the guys forgot half the stuff they called.

[bob_barron 0]

I loved Gibson v. Black Tiger from 5/7 and Strong v. Gibson from BOSJ

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I hated Gibson vs. Tiger.

[Mole 0]

organisation

*paging Hoff*

[tigeraid 0]

I was really impressed with his run in ROH, but I agree that he suffered in the longer matches--trouble adapting from his WWE style I suppose. I really felt his short match with BJ Whitmer at Nowhere to Run (I believe?) was really underrated, and helped a lot to set up the feud for the tag titles a bit later on.

 

Regardless, he was fantastic in ROH compared to his jobbing/Velocity work in WWE. Though I agree he was awesome in WCW with the Jung Dragons.