WWE contracts preventing elavation.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

so I'm listening to Wrestling Observer Live and they were talking about the reason that there is no elavation going on.

 

They were talking about how the contracts are structured so that the higher you are on the card...the more money yoy make.  So that if they elavated someone...one of the top guys will start making less money.

 

They said that guys like HHH, Austin and Taker know exactly how to not put guys over and keep their spots safe.

 

Then they referenced Foley and the great things he did for Rock leading into Mania 15 and how he made HHH a star on his way out.

 

The main theme of the show (when they talk about WWE) is that they NEED to make like 4 new stars before ratings turn around.

 

But that seems to be impossible given the way contracts are structured.  They also said that they think that guys like HHH would be more willing to go down the card if it wasn't going to lessen their take.

 

um....

 

discuss...and stuff.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

That seems to be a perfectly reasonable explanation.

[Guest Flyboy]

That seems to be a perfectly reasonable explanation.

Damn it, Ramsus!

 

Always taking the good responses!  

[Guest the pinjockey]

Of course what the top tier people need to realize is that they would make much more money having 10 MEs with a booming business than they would being the only ME with shitty business.  Hell during Hogan's era lower card guys were becoming rich.  Big business will earn a wrestler more money than a high spot on the card during a low period.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

thats why they're called politics pin jockey.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

It certainly puts another slant on certain issues.

 

1.  Austin has been upset with the direction of the company....ever since he stopped Main Eventing.

 

2.  KOTR will be main evented by HHH and UT...even though no one wants to see it.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Oh yeah...and

 

3.  Edge, Angle, RVD and Eddy can Main Event tv shows in brutal and dangerous matches...but not ppv...where the payoffs be.

[Guest Flyboy]

Hmmm.. if that's the case, then I could *really* see UT getting off his spot for RVD and elevating him.  He's done it so far.

 

Maybe at Summerslam (or the PPV after) RVD takes the title from him or something... finally ending that fued.  

 

That would gain much kudos to the 'Taker from me.  

[Guest y2jailbait]

Well, the fact money is the base for all politics was well known. Its pretty sickening to see no new real starts being elevated the way The Rock, HHH and Austin once were, but hey time will tell what will happen.

[Guest the pinjockey]

I am curious did they mention if it was ranked or grouped to base pay.

 

For example:

 

They view Austin as the top ME, then HHH, then UT does that mean Austin makes more than HHH who makes more than UT or do they just group all of the ME together and have a ME regular salary, then a high-midcard salary, etc.

[Guest Human Fly]

If Vince and Co. really wanted to they could elevate new talent though. They just need to do it a la Bret Hart '92.

[Guest Flyboy]

3.  Edge, Angle, RVD and Eddy can Main Event tv shows in brutal and dangerous matches...but not ppv...where the payoffs be.

In HHH's, UT's, and Austin's paycheck, maybe?  

[Guest]

Ah, I recall the halcyon days of last year, when Triple H wasn't around, thus ridding us, however temporarily, of the self-imposed, but false, concept that he is the company's top draw. Maybe his bum knee will give out during his King of the Ring match, meaning we can go another nine months without him.

 

If he was currently having the awesome matches he was before the injury, I would have never said the above.

[Guest Flyboy]

I am curious did they mention if it was ranked or grouped to base pay.

 

For example:

 

They view Austin as the top ME, then HHH, then UT does that mean Austin makes more than HHH who makes more than UT or do they just group all of the ME together and have a ME regular salary, then a high-midcard salary, etc.

I would *think* the latter, but you have to remember merchandise income and such.

[Guest Flyboy]

Ah, I recall the halcyon days of last year, when Triple H wasn't around, thus ridding us, however temporarily, of the self-imposed, but false, concept that he is the company's top draw. Maybe his bum knee will give out during his King of the Ring match, meaning we can go another nine months without him.

 

If he was currently having the awesome matches he was before the injury, I would have never said the above.

But, he's not... so it *had* to be said.

[Guest areacode212]

I am curious did they mention if it was ranked or grouped to base pay.

 

For example:

 

They view Austin as the top ME, then HHH, then UT does that mean Austin makes more than HHH who makes more than UT or do they just group all of the ME together and have a ME regular salary, then a high-midcard salary, etc.

They didn't really mention rankings. Dave just explained how the system works in general and gave the examples bps mentioned. They also pointed out that if HHH were on his way out, he probably would be happy to elevate someone, Foley-style, but this isn't the case at present.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

They didn't mention that pin jockey.

 

I know that Foley wrote about how one of the positives about breaking retirement was the pay off from Main Eventing WrestleMania (as well as the 2 ppvs before it).

 

I think..and I stress think...that the contracts are filled with bonuses that effect the payment for the week, biweekly, or month takes.

 

For example...if a guy signes and has a 500,000 dollar downside guarantee...and does nothing...he makes that much a year.

 

But if he works his way up the card and main events a ppv...his take at that time will go up...and whoevers spot he took would go down.

[Guest the pinjockey]

So I guess we can assume that we will get about two new ME in about two years when UT and Austin are ready to retire then another one in about eight or nine years when HHH is ready to retire if this is the case.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

How much more do main-eventers actually make than midcarders though? I remember reading a while back that Goldberg was one of the highest paid wrestlers of the time but he still made "only" $3million a year, and that WCW main-eventers were paid more than WWF main-eventers anyway.

 

Anyway, in a more constructive and easier to decipher commentary, this explains a lot, especially about backstage politics.  HHH wants more money, so he won't put over anyone... it all makes sense now.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

It does make sense.

 

And its alot easier to see why it is that it doesn't change.

 

And that is incredibly disheartening.

 

Sure a guy can get up to the top...lets call him...um...Chris...um...Jericho.

 

So this "Chris Jericho" who is a completely fictional character that I just made up...gets to the top of the card...wins the title and main events the 3 straight ppv...including the big one...WrestleMania.

 

now after losing the title does he move back into the lower main event/upper midcard spot?

 

No...he doesn't have a match at the next ppv...and jobs to the same guy again at the following one...thus solidifying him as a NON Main Event player.

 

its all so clear.

[Guest buffybeast]

I think ME'ers make a base salary of $750k to $1MM per year.

 

What someone said was so correct:  Everyone makes more money when business is good versus when business is bad.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

It does make sense.

 

And its alot easier to see why it is that it doesn't change.

 

And that is incredibly disheartening.

 

Sure a guy can get up to the top...lets call him...um...Chris...um...Jericho.

 

So this "Chris Jericho" who is a completely fictional character that I just made up...gets to the top of the card...wins the title and main events the 3 straight ppv...including the big one...WrestleMania.

 

now after losing the title does he move back into the lower main event/upper midcard spot?

 

No...he doesn't have a match at the next ppv...and jobs to the same guy again at the following one...thus solidifying him as a NON Main Event player.

 

its all so clear.

Interesting hypothetical you bring up.  I would hate to see that ever put into practice.

 

::whisper, whisper::

 

What?  It did?

 

::whisper::

 

Really?  Oh, shit...

[Guest areacode212]

So, what would you guys do to change the salary structure so that guys would be more willing to "give up their spot"? Meltzer's idea of allowing top guys to retain their present salary in exchange for a lower spot on the card was good, assuming that the WWE can afford to do that. Any other ideas?

[Guest Dangerous A]

Areacode 212 is right. The WWE needs to look at this issue. Politics are always going to be a thing in the locker room, but if this gets addressed, then maybe the politics won't be so bad as pertains to ME'ers.

[Guest buffybeast]

Vince needs to tell everyone to shut the hell up and do what he says.  If he wants to depush someone, he should do it, no questions asked.  If HHH or anyone has a problem with that, then Vince should tell them to either like it or hit the effin' unemployment line.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Why can't they all be like Foley. Helping out the up and coming talented perfomers. Instead of playing politics and hurting the company, they got help new stars and help the company in the long run. It's a real shame that HHH is letting is ego get in the way of what's best for the company in the long run.

[Guest Army Eye]

Why can't they all be like Foley. Helping out the up and coming talented perfomers. Instead of playing politics and hurting the company, they got help new stars and help the company in the long run. It's a real shame that HHH is letting is ego get in the way of what's best for the company in the long run.

Foley's situation was different, he was retiring.

[Guest]

I find it strange -- and a poor comment on myself -- that I had never even thought to consider money as a motivating factor in the backstage politics and the "why won't this guy ever do the job for someone else?" debate.  

 

Everything does make a lot more sense now when one thinks about the money involved.  

 

I guess I always just assumed that guys had flat rate "X dollars over Y ammount of time" the way baseball and football contracts work, I guess, with guys getting incentive bonuses from merchandise sales and so on.

 

But moving down the card = paycut?  NOW stuff makes sense.

 

And sure, everybody would make more money when there's a boom on (even the midcarders lined their pockets during Hulkamania's height in the 80's) but do you honestly think that the people who were responsible for the previous booms are going to let go easily of the idea that they can make another boom happen if they stay on top running with the ball long enough? (Everyone thinks they can catch lightning in a bottle the second time; it's human nature).  And maybe the guys on the verge of retirement are just in money grab mode now, make all the cash they can to have to live off of when it's all over.

 

Not that it makes it okay to squash the stars of tomorrow...but I think I understand the thought process a little better now.

 

EDIT:  And it sure as shit makes sense now why Vince would be willing to let, say, for example, Triple H, hold say, for example, Chris Jericho, down...if Jericho's elevation means Vince has to pay him more.

[Guest]

Why can't they all be like Foley. Helping out the up and coming talented perfomers. Instead of playing politics and hurting the company, they got help new stars and help the company in the long run. It's a real shame that HHH is letting is ego get in the way of what's best for the company in the long run.

Foley's situation was different, he was retiring.

But Foley always stressed that Winning and Losing wasn't the important thing (which I also think the Rock has a good grasp on) it's how good a match you have and how good a story you tell... also, Foley always stressed that you should make your opponent looks as credible as possible, because if you win, then hey you just beat a strong guy, kudos to you, or if you lose, at least you didn't lose to a worthless opponent. HHH's win over Jericho didn't do anything to help him. Jericho was already made to look the fool by HHH.

 

I think The Rock does the right thing most of the time as far as making his opponent look strong, he sells for them and often takes most of the punishment during the match.

 

Foley also put guys over (Like HHH in his post- KOTR push), as well as guys like Val Venis, Jericho, Big Show, and Al Snow.

[Guest Smeghead]

I see these posts all the time where someone says that a certain wrestler (for once I won't mention any names) is holding another wrestler back.  Then someone else says that the first person needs to provide some sort of evidence that this wrestler is holding others back.  But so far, no concrete evidence has been provided.  It's all been speculation and rumors.

 

Until now.  Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I present to you the Smart Marks Exhibit A:

 

so I'm listening to Wrestling Observer Live and they were talking about the reason that there is no elavation going on.

 

They were talking about how the contracts are structured so that the higher you are on the card...the more money yoy make.  So that if they elavated someone...one of the top guys will start making less money.

 

They said that guys like HHH, Austin and Taker know exactly how to not put guys over and keep their spots safe.

 

Then they referenced Foley and the great things he did for Rock leading into Mania 15 and how he made HHH a star on his way out.

 

The main theme of the show (when they talk about WWE) is that they NEED to make like 4 new stars before ratings turn around.

 

But that seems to be impossible given the way contracts are structured.  They also said that they think that guys like HHH would be more willing to go down the card if it wasn't going to lessen their take.