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Giuseppe Zangara

King Crimson: The Thread

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Guest Agent of Oblivion

The bigger, lightyears more complicated brother, sure. That's part of my second favorite phase of King Crimson.

 

Have you heard Three of a Perfect Pair? A lot more spacey than Discipline, with more broad strokes on the instrumentals.

 

They're full-blown progressive in the 81-84 phase. A totally different animal than the Larks/Starless/Red trio of records. (Which are my favorite.)

 

Lately I've been delving more into their "in-between" compositions. Lizard is very interesting.

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Well, yeah, there's a lot more technical flights of fancy going on with Discipline, but the similarities are there, with Adrian Belew's Byrne-isms being near the top of the list. "Thela Hun Ginjet" almost comes off as a cover of "I Zimbra."

 

Red. The guitar tone on the title track is so awesome. That, and the recently revisited—as well as newly appreciated—In the Court of the Crimson King is the only KC I've listened to. (I'm not counting Starless and Bible Black, which, along with the debut, I checked out years ago and didn't get into.)

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The bigger, lightyears more complicated brother, sure. That's part of my second favorite phase of King Crimson.

 

Are you saying that just as a statement, or are you saying that "more complicated" and "bigger" make it better? Because I might disagree with you on that one.

 

In the Court of the Crimson King

In the Wake of Poseidon

Lizard

Islands

Larks' Tongues in Aspic

Starless and Bible Black

Red

Discipline

Beat

Three of a Perfect Pair

THRAK

ConstruKction of Light

The Power to Believe

 

The ones in bold are the albums that I own.

 

I would have to say that I, personally, prefer the Adrian Belew material to anything else that they've done. However, depending on my mood, the first album and the Starless and Bible Black/Red combo can match, if not surpass, any of the Belew records.

 

Of course, the trouble with picking your favorite KC album is that they never sounded the same for longer than one or two albums.

 

 

By the way, is there anything of note to be found on any of the final three albums?

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I don't like John Wetton's voice very much. I remember that being a big sticking point for me back when I heard Starless and Bible Black many moons ago. That hasn't changed with Red, but since most of the album is instrumental and KC's playing—Wetton's bass included—is so fucking tight here that I can overlook it.

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I think John Wetton is an underrated vocalist, from KC to UK to Asia.

 

The 81-84 era is my favorite too. Absent Loves is one of my favorite live CDs ever

 

Of course, KC is one of those bands where the live discography far outshines the studio work.

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Guest Felonies!

Isn't Adrian Belew on Remain in Light? I've been listening to that album a lot this week, so I'm all for its big brother. Thanks for the heads-up!

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Isn't Adrian Belew on Remain in Light?

His guitar is. Belew's vocals are kind of like David Byrne at his most over the top. I know you've said you haven't fully acquired the taste for Byrne's voice, so caveat emptor and all that.

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Guest Felonies!

I've heard him sing when he was with Zappa circa '78. He does "City of Tiny Lites." I'll listen again for Byrne similarities.

 

EDIT: I love "City of Tiny Lites." I say bring it on.

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"Elephant Talk" plays like a Remain in Light outtake. I prefer Discipline to Remain in Light, though, as I've said on this board numerous times before, I've never been high on that particular Talking Heads album, "Crosseyed and Painless" and "Once in a Lifetime" aside.

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Guest Felonies!

This does sound like a RIL outtake. These lyrics seem even more disjointed and weird than David Byrne's, though.

 

Should I expect any cool little horn breaks like the one in "The Great Curve"? Because I love that part. Right after Belew's solo, which is second only to the "Born Under Punches" solo that sounds like an Atari 2600.

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Guest Agent of Oblivion
Are you saying that just as a statement, or are you saying that "more complicated" and "bigger" make it better? Because I might disagree with you on that one.

 

Statement. Bigger in the sense of production, more complicated is self-explanatory. RiL is cold and thin. Discipline is cold and huge, in the sense that the music has more lateral movement.

 

These lyrics seem even more disjointed and weird than David Byrne's, though.

 

Belew is nowhere near the levels of whackjob as Peter Sinfield. I'm convinced a lot of his Crimson lyrics are anagrams, but I'm not dedicated enough to look into them that deeply.

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Guest Agent of Oblivion

Perfect on some tracks, a bit off on others, but never offensive.

 

No one else could have sang "The Night Watch" properly. Same with "Lament." Belew's sheer strength in his pipes would be a better "Book of Saturdays" f'rinstance.

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Where should I go from here? I already mentioned what albums I'm down with. Should I give SABB another chance? Or something else?

 

Also, which King Crimson LP has the worst album cover. It's a toss-up between In the Wake of the Poseidon and Red, I think.

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Guest Agent of Oblivion

Three of a Perfect Pair, absolutely. You mentioned not being impressed with Wetton, so you might as well explore further in the 81-84 period.

 

As for worst album cover, it's between Poseidon or Beat. I actually like the cover of Red. It's red, it just shows the band, and they're all making a face like "I hate these motherfuckers."

 

Hey, there's a nice topic. What did you think of them stepping on each others' toes on that record? I think it's almost kind of hard to listen to at times, since it's all this |--| close to going to pieces. Really tense.

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Guest Agent of Oblivion

And yes, you should give Starless another chance. Listen to Larks Tongues in Aspic, too. That trio of albums is massive.

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Guest Agent of Oblivion

Nope. That's actually my next stop for them, since I've never listened to the double trio lineup.

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I, too, am a fan of the Red cover. It has just the right mix of dead-seriousness and semi-cheesiness. And, as Agent said, its simplicity comes off well.

 

My vote goes to Beat. That cover is ugly and bland as they come.

 

How many "Eras" of King Crimson are there? Four? Or five? I guess it depends on how many line-ups you choose to count in the 70s, since members were going in and out of the group a lot during that time, I believe.

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Guest Agent of Oblivion

I count 5. "Early" with their first two, then the Sinfield stuff with Lizard and Islands. Larks/Starless/Red, 81-84, and the double trio.

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It's a perilous line. "Providence" feels like it's going to collapse at any moment, but they manage to hold it together the whole time.

 

How's Thrak. You got that one?

 

I haven't listened to it in a long time but, from what I recall of it, Thrak's not too bad. "Dinosaur" is probably one of their most accessible tunes from the period and, lyrics aside, it's not bad for one of KC's lengthier pieces (definitely follows the traditional sonata-form). There's a sequel (or half-assed remake, however you choose to view it) of "Red" on the album as well - I believe it's "VROOM." The production and instrumentation sounds close to the 80's iteration, but the songs sound closer to the 70's group - it's a nice middle point.

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I think I like Red slightly better than Starless and Bible Black, but it's a tough call. The fact that the whole thing sounds like it might break apart at any moment is the best thing about the album, in my opinion.

 

Is Larks' Tongues in Aspic really on the same level as the other two in the trilogy? I almost picked it up today but it was nearly $17 and the Curtis Mayfield album that I wanted was only $10.

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Guest Felonies!

I love all that Chapman Stick stuff on Discipline. Cool unique sound.

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How do most KC fans generally regard Beat? When I first bought it a while back I was a bit underwhelmed simply because I was expecting a continuation of Discipline, but since then I have come to love the album. Belew is the man, truly. Also, this music sounds absolutely nothing like any other King Crimson album, though the Talking Heads influence is still evidence.

 

I have a Best Buy gift card left over from Christmas and I think I might just buy one of the double-trio albums. I am interested in seeing whether or not those are any good...

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Guest Agent of Oblivion
I think I like Red slightly better than Starless and Bible Black, but it's a tough call. The fact that the whole thing sounds like it might break apart at any moment is the best thing about the album, in my opinion.

 

Is Larks' Tongues in Aspic really on the same level as the other two in the trilogy? I almost picked it up today but it was nearly $17 and the Curtis Mayfield album that I wanted was only $10.

 

I think so. It really depends on which order you listen to the albums. If you hear Red first (which is really the conclusion of the project) then Larks seems kind of underwhelming. Taken as the first movement in one continuous idea, it's superb. For being abstract, though, it's more cohesive on its own than Starless, which is all over the place.

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