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Smackdown Taping SPOILERS for this week !!

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I think Kane deserves a "dirt" spot over Benoit. Kane was given a meaningless one day reign, and despite all the shit they make him do, they can't bother giving him a gold watch run.

 

Angle was really treated as joke in his first reign, which people try to argue as "but that was his character!" which doesn't make it alright.

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Guest wildpegasus
He got to squash the two at Backlash.

 

Not saying he had some great reign, but to say he was treated worse then dirt is overdoing it.

 

I don't think it's overdoing it.

 

With Benoit it was more of what could've been. He was coming off the beginnings of a Benoit vs Lesnar feud that produced one of the best matches of all time. The feud was going along really well until HHH ran out of opponents on Raw. Benoit had way more potential upside in his reign than either Rey, Jericho or Kane had (coming in booking wise) as they did not have the same momentum and same possibilities that Benoit could've achieved. A Benoit vs Lesnar feud with Benoit winning the belt at No Way Out or Wrestlemania had the chance to be the most memoarable event in wrestling history. Instead Benoit got wasted over at Raw. That's being treated worse than dirt.

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Benoit's move to RAW opened the door for Eddie to get a WWE Title shot and eventually a Title win against Lesnar, and the ensuing matches he had with Lesnar himself, Angle, Rey, and JBL were in the very good/great category, so that's a plus. His reign only cut short because of all the stress of carrying SD! on his shoulders made him request himself to drop the strap. Who knows when Eddie would've had another chance at the Title if Benoit wasn't traded.

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He got to squash the two at Backlash.

 

Not saying he had some great reign, but to say he was treated worse then dirt is overdoing it.

 

I don't think it's overdoing it.

 

With Benoit it was more of what could've been. He was coming off the beginnings of a Benoit vs Lesnar feud that produced one of the best matches of all time. The feud was going along really well until HHH ran out of opponents on Raw. Benoit had way more potential upside in his reign than either Rey, Jericho or Kane had (coming in booking wise) as they did not have the same momentum and same possibilities that Benoit could've achieved. A Benoit vs Lesnar feud with Benoit winning the belt at No Way Out or Wrestlemania had the chance to be the most memoarable event in wrestling history. Instead Benoit got wasted over at Raw. That's being treated worse than dirt.

 

What match would that be?

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With Benoit it was more of what could've been. He was coming off the beginnings of a Benoit vs Lesnar feud that produced one of the best matches of all time. The feud was going along really well until HHH ran out of opponents on Raw. Benoit had way more potential upside in his reign than either Rey, Jericho or Kane had (coming in booking wise) as they did not have the same momentum and same possibilities that Benoit could've achieved. A Benoit vs Lesnar feud with Benoit winning the belt at No Way Out or Wrestlemania had the chance to be the most memoarable event in wrestling history. Instead Benoit got wasted over at Raw. That's being treated worse than dirt.

 

What match would that be?

 

I assume he's referring to the Lesnar vs Benoit WWE title match on SD! back in December 03 where Brock won with his "Brock-Lock" after injuring Benoit's leg with a chair. Although a great match, I wouldn't exactly call it one of the best matches of all time.

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Ugh, what happened to Smackdown being a pretty damn entertaining show? Once again the spoilers are showing a complete dissapointment in the results, and now we're going a full month at least like this. Definate downturn in the SD product right after that first SD after Mania, which was a very good show.

 

Rey has to beat Bradshaw now or the whole point to give him the belt (to get him over) is completely lost. They'd just have to send him back down to CW division if he jobs out now at the ppv. Losing to two big men in non-title matches relatively convincingly and more importantly, CLEAN - should justify a rub at the big show. Bottom line - Bradshaw can handle a loss (since he shouldnt even be in the main event position in the first place, for one thing) but Rey most certainly cant at this point.

 

They should then consider Rey v. Booker at GAB, and THEN give Booker the belt, leading to Booker/Batista at SummerSlam.

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I agree about JBL. After seeing him get destroyed by Boogeyman at the Rumble, he has little-no crediblity to be a World Champion, but losing to the consistently buried Rey Mysterio will only make him look worse. Its almost a no-win situation.

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Benoit actually got a decent reign. He may not have been the absoulte focus of every show, but he was made to look like a million dollars throughout his run, and that's more than you can say for most champs. You have to remember that he was never meant to be the focus of the promotion. His win was more a "thank you" reign than anything else.

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I must be drawing a blank on this Lesnar/Benoit stuff because I only recall it being a "blink and you'll miss it" mini feud for Brock between the Angle feud and dropping the title to Eddie. I recall a pretty decent SD match where Benoit passed out, but I hardly think it had the potential to be one of the best feuds/matches of all time for the following reasons:

 

1. Neither guy has a huge amount of charisma. Well, Benoit does in terms of in ring intensity, but Brock didn't have much charisma either way.

 

2. The feud would undoubtedly lack pizzazz. Unless Heyman did some ungodly mic work neither guy could get this feud over on the mic.

 

In the end, the match itself would have been a relatively solid affair in the ***1/2 range (maybe **** range if Benoit did a good carry job). But it wouldn't have remotely been as big as Benoit/Shawn/HHH ended up being.

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I wouldn't even call it a mini-feud. It was just a one off match from Smackdown, as far as I can recall and had no real lasting impact. Benoit winning would have had the same impact as Guerrero ending up having, and nothing of the magnitude of beating Shawn and HHH at WM20.

 

It's a function of everyone on the net overrating Benoit. They look at Benoit, a great worker, and Lesnar, another great worker and start screaming "5 stars! Match of the year! Greatest fued in 10 years!" without actually thinking about what sort of impact it would actually have. Look, I love Benoit as much as the next guy, but you can't build a promotion around him and beating Lesnar has far less impact than beating HHH.

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There was no better thank you that WWE could've given Benoit for all his hard work over the years than to have him make the biggest heel in the company TAP OUT, cleanly, in the middle of the ring at the main event of the biggest show of the year.

 

Sure he could've beaten Brock on a syndicated wrestling show, but I just don't think it would've been as special as making HHH tap at Wrestlemania. Don't get me wrong. Benoit vs Brock was a damn good television World title match, but the right man went over, at the time, in Brock. Eddy got his big win at No Way Out, and his thank you/congrats for his determination in beating his drug and alcohol abuse problems. They both won their respective world titles at the perfect time.

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There was no better thank you that WWE could've given Benoit for all his hard work over the years than to have him make the biggest heel in the company TAP OUT, cleanly, in the middle of the ring at the main event of the biggest show of the year.

 

Sure he could've beaten Brock on a syndicated wrestling show, but I just don't think it would've been as special as making HHH tap at Wrestlemania. Don't get me wrong. Benoit vs Brock was a damn good television World title match, but the right man went over, at the time, in Brock. Eddy got his big win at No Way Out, and his thank you/congrats for his determination in beating his drug and alcohol abuse problems. They both won their respective world titles at the perfect time.

 

Agreed completely.

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Guest wildpegasus

There's so much absolute wrong here with the talk about Benoit and Lesnar that it's not even worth replying too. Sorry to be so in your face but it's true.

 

 

Speaking of treating your champion getting treated badly I saw the end of Rey getting embarassed yet again. Not only did I feel bad for Rey but I felt bad for the fans. Specifically the fan base that Rey Mysterio brings in which is of course the youth. The kids love him and to see their hero (I think Rey's one of the only heros left in wrestling) get squashed like that is pretty disheartning especially when the WWE is giving the fans no reason to get behind their hero. I just saw the face of a youngster I know well after that embarassing match for Rey -- All I could think about was how thoughtless the WWE is to their fans and it just filled me with pure disgust. I "can" handle that type of thing (still trying to get over Benoit and Lesnar though) but it shouldn't be done to the kids. No offence to the 7 foot giant as I believe he should be pushed but this is not the way to do it especially when you know the WWE will screw that push up anyway.

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There's so much absolute wrong here with the talk about Benoit and Lesnar that it's not even worth replying too. Sorry to be so in your face but it's true.

 

The only thing wrong is you saying Benoit Vs. Lesnar on SD 03 was one of the greatest matches ever.

 

It was a good match, and you could argue it was the best TV match that year. One of the greatest matches ever is slapping Benoit in the face, considering I can problay name more then 20 better matches from Benoit better then that one.

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There's so much absolute wrong here with the talk about Benoit and Lesnar that it's not even worth replying too. Sorry to be so in your face but it's true.

 

That's just ridiculous. Back yourself up or don't say anything at all. Benoit-Lesnar was booked the way it should have been, and both men ended up better because of it.

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There's so much absolute wrong here with the talk about Benoit and Lesnar that it's not even worth replying too. Sorry to be so in your face but it's true.

 

That's just ridiculous. Back yourself up or don't say anything at all. Benoit-Lesnar was booked the way it should have been, and both men ended up better because of it.

 

Yeah, Brock went onto that legendary feud with Holly. It was worth it, for that one night only deal between Lesnar and Benoit.

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Guest wildpegasus

Guys, Benoit vs Lesnar never ended. The feud was cut off early so HHH could have someone to play with at Wrestlemania. Long story short, the Benoit vs Lesnar feud ha a million times more upside than what actually did happen to Benoit against HHH and Michaels at Mania. Get buried with dirt. Yes, I'm still disgusted about the whole scenario.

 

EHME, you can read my thoughts on Benoit vs Lesnar in the "What are you watching thread"

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Guest ChampKind

There's so much absolute wrong here with the talk about Benoit and Lesnar that it's not even worth replying too. Sorry to be so in your face but it's true.

 

That's just ridiculous. Back yourself up or don't say anything at all. Benoit-Lesnar was booked the way it should have been, and both men ended up better because of it.

 

Yeah, Brock went onto that legendary feud with Holly. It was worth it, for that one night only deal between Lesnar and Benoit.

 

Obviously he meant the Lesnar - Eddie feud. I don't see how exactly Benoit was mistreated. He had 5 months as champ, which included him making the company's biggest star (like it or not, that's what Triple H is) tap out clean.

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Guest wildpegasus

Yay!! Benoit made HHH tap out in a triple threat match!! Hooray!! Yipee! Zippedoodaday!! That makes me as a Benoit fan so happy.

The only time Benoit ever beat HHH cleanly one on one was when Eddie Guerrero unfortunately died.

 

A triple threat is not a singles match. Benoit's story does not equal winning the title in a meaningless triple threat bout. Benoit's journey had everything to do with him having to take the crown in a singles bout. Yes, that should be true for everyone but it was even more true in Benoit's case. They took that away from him at the very time he needed it the most.

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I must be drawing a blank on this Lesnar/Benoit stuff because I only recall it being a "blink and you'll miss it" mini feud for Brock between the Angle feud and dropping the title to Eddie. I recall a pretty decent SD match where Benoit passed out, but I hardly think it had the potential to be one of the best feuds/matches of all time for the following reasons:

 

1. Neither guy has a huge amount of charisma. Well, Benoit does in terms of in ring intensity, but Brock didn't have much charisma either way.

 

2. The feud would undoubtedly lack pizzazz. Unless Heyman did some ungodly mic work neither guy could get this feud over on the mic.

 

In the end, the match itself would have been a relatively solid affair in the ***1/2 range (maybe **** range if Benoit did a good carry job). But it wouldn't have remotely been as big as Benoit/Shawn/HHH ended up being.

 

I don't like that "if Benoit did a good carry job" line because Lesnar was one of the best wrestlers in the WWE at that point. Lesnar carried others himself so Benoit probably wouldn't have to carry him.

 

Smackdown! still needs Lesnar IMO. He was such a big part of the show. He was a very credible champion, he had in-ring charisma and he was a GREAT big man wrestler so it wasn't boring to watch him. Lesnar/JBL, Lesnar/Mysterio, Lesnar/Benoit and Lesnar/Booker T would have been awesome but no.....Lesnar had to be an asshole.

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Guest J0bber
I agree about JBL. After seeing him get destroyed by Boogeyman at the Rumble, he has little-no crediblity to be a World Champion, but losing to the consistently buried Rey Mysterio will only make him look worse. Its almost a no-win situation.

 

What they should do is bring the Boogeyman back and have JBL or Mark Henry squash him to make the Boogeyman's win look like it was a fluke.

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I agree about JBL. After seeing him get destroyed by Boogeyman at the Rumble, he has little-no crediblity to be a World Champion, but losing to the consistently buried Rey Mysterio will only make him look worse. Its almost a no-win situation.

 

WWE booking themselves into a corner? Get outta here...

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I must be drawing a blank on this Lesnar/Benoit stuff because I only recall it being a "blink and you'll miss it" mini feud for Brock between the Angle feud and dropping the title to Eddie. I recall a pretty decent SD match where Benoit passed out, but I hardly think it had the potential to be one of the best feuds/matches of all time for the following reasons:

 

1. Neither guy has a huge amount of charisma. Well, Benoit does in terms of in ring intensity, but Brock didn't have much charisma either way.

 

2. The feud would undoubtedly lack pizzazz. Unless Heyman did some ungodly mic work neither guy could get this feud over on the mic.

 

In the end, the match itself would have been a relatively solid affair in the ***1/2 range (maybe **** range if Benoit did a good carry job). But it wouldn't have remotely been as big as Benoit/Shawn/HHH ended up being.

 

I don't like that "if Benoit did a good carry job" line because Lesnar was one of the best wrestlers in the WWE at that point. Lesnar carried others himself so Benoit probably wouldn't have to carry him.

 

Smackdown! still needs Lesnar IMO. He was such a big part of the show. He was a very credible champion, he had in-ring charisma and he was a GREAT big man wrestler so it wasn't boring to watch him. Lesnar/JBL, Lesnar/Mysterio, Lesnar/Benoit and Lesnar/Booker T would have been awesome but no.....Lesnar had to be an asshole.

 

Because he doesn't want to work for WWE? Yeah, what an asshole.

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I saw SD last night and it damn near put me to sleep. Too many squash matches. It felt like an episode of Velocity.

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I'll clarify that "Benoit carry job" comment. Sure, Brock could have ***1/2 type matches routinely but it would need Benoit to push it over into anything special.

 

I do think there is some money in Lesnar coming back, namely a huge match with Batista. But I think several people on this board have this fondness for the Brock Era that isn't really deserved. Some of this is because SD has tanked badly since he left. He's a solid big man, but he's not someone I ever cared about. I'll explain:

 

--He wasn't a very interesting heel. As a heel Brock spent far too much time selling for people, and he also had just mediocre mic skills.

 

--He wasn't a very interesting face. Brock was passable as a heel, but he was bland as hell as a face. Let's face it, Brock going through Heyman's bunch of goons (Team Angle, Big Show, etc) before finally getting the title from Kurt is something that should have been a big draw. But it fell flat in my opinion.

 

The lone angle and match of his I think is really great was the Eddie match, and that was mostly my excitement over Eddie winning.

 

The point I'm trying to make is Benoit's wins over HHH at WM and then Shawn at Backlash are vastly more important than beating Brock. Hell, The Big Show beat Lesnar for the title. Angle beat his ass several times and made him tap. Benoit to me legitimized the World Title on Raw when he won it, since before then it was mostly the HHH vanity belt with a couple of cups of coffee for Shawn and Goldberg.

 

In the end did WWE drop the ball with Benoit? Of course. I was sickened at him jobbing to Orton because I found the scenario totally unbelievable. Here was a guy who made HHH tap, then made Shawn tap, takes out Kane...and he jobs the title to Randy Fucking Orton???

 

Thing is, if Benoit won the title on SD what more could they have done? We wouldn't have gotten the joyous Eddie title win, and I'm sorry but there's no way Benoit beating Brock would have meant more than Eddie doing it (Eddie had more heat and charisma than Benoit). I think lots of people were destined to be disappointed though, since there was no way Eddie or Benoit were going to be long term champions. Thus no matter who beat them it would have come off like either someone playing a political power play, or someone beating them that was unworthy in terms of talent.

 

Wildpegasus, explain your booking idea on this one.

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I saw SD last night and it damn near put me to sleep. Too many squash matches. It felt like an episode of Velocity.

This week was a truly terrible show. Lashley vs Finlay should have been able to salvage it but 4/5 of the match was Finlay putting Lashley in a sleeper/choke hold. The Gymini are boring workers with a boring moveset and yet they keep getting air time. For some ungodly reason Burchill looked like a complete pussy for the second week in a row, and the Khali/Rey match seriously destroyed any tiny shred of credibility Mysterio might have had as World Champ, in front of his home crowd no less.

 

MNM getting de-pantsed by London, Kendrick and Jillian was the highlight of the show.

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Yay!! Benoit made HHH tap out in a triple threat match!! Hooray!! Yipee! Zippedoodaday!! That makes me as a Benoit fan so happy.

The only time Benoit ever beat HHH cleanly one on one was when Eddie Guerrero unfortunately died.

 

A triple threat is not a singles match. Benoit's story does not equal winning the title in a meaningless triple threat bout. Benoit's journey had everything to do with him having to take the crown in a singles bout. Yes, that should be true for everyone but it was even more true in Benoit's case. They took that away from him at the very time he needed it the most.

 

You think like a smart mark, Benoit fanboy instead of how 90% of the audience views things. Benoit beating HHH AND Shawn, in MSG, at Wrestlemania 20, is about a million times more important and memorable than beating Lesnar on Smackdown and it's preposterous to think otherwise. It doesn't matter that it wasn't a singles match, because the buildup and execution of the story worked perfectly. Benoit got everything he deserved out that match, that angle and his title run in general.

 

Lesnar's story through Mania would have been comprised as well. The money match was Goldberg-Lesnar, and they were doing that come hell or high water. Had Benoit stayed he would have just taken Eddie's spot, which would have screwed up BOTH of the Mania title matches.

 

Benoit owned HHH during 2004. The reason they never had the big singles blowoff match on PPV was because no one viewed HHH as a credible threat anymore, or at least not as something they'd want to pay to see. I don't like to defend the E's booking most of the time, but that whole 2004 run was decently arranged. How would you have done it differently?

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The only problem personally that I had with Benoit going to Raw (aside from the Orton job at SS) was that his motivation for defecting to Raw was never very clear. The way it played out it came off as one of two things:

 

1. Benoit lost to Lesnar, didn't think he could win against him, and thus went to Raw to face HHH.

2. Benoit thought SD's title was a joke and he wanted the more important belt on the more important show.

 

I almost think they should have just scrapped the Bob Holly push and just gone with Brock/Eddie at the Rumble. Eddie can win the belt there (they can blow off the Chavo angle on TV), and then there's a good reason for Benoit to go to Raw. Namely that he had a choice and didn't want to go after his good friend Eddie, but would certainly go after a guy he didn't care for (HHH).

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Guest wildpegasus

Yay!! Benoit made HHH tap out in a triple threat match!! Hooray!! Yipee! Zippedoodaday!! That makes me as a Benoit fan so happy.

The only time Benoit ever beat HHH cleanly one on one was when Eddie Guerrero unfortunately died.

 

A triple threat is not a singles match. Benoit's story does not equal winning the title in a meaningless triple threat bout. Benoit's journey had everything to do with him having to take the crown in a singles bout. Yes, that should be true for everyone but it was even more true in Benoit's case. They took that away from him at the very time he needed it the most.

 

You think like a smart mark, Benoit fanboy instead of how 90% of the audience views things. Benoit beating HHH AND Shawn, in MSG, at Wrestlemania 20, is about a million times more important and memorable than beating Lesnar on Smackdown and it's preposterous to think otherwise. It doesn't matter that it wasn't a singles match, because the buildup and execution of the story worked perfectly. Benoit got everything he deserved out that match, that angle and his title run in general.

 

Lesnar's story through Mania would have been comprised as well. The money match was Goldberg-Lesnar, and they were doing that come hell or high water. Had Benoit stayed he would have just taken Eddie's spot, which would have screwed up BOTH of the Mania title matches.

 

Benoit owned HHH during 2004. The reason they never had the big singles blowoff match on PPV was because no one viewed HHH as a credible threat anymore, or at least not as something they'd want to pay to see. I don't like to defend the E's booking most of the time, but that whole 2004 run was decently arranged. How would you have done it differently?

 

 

Who said I wanted Benoit to beat Lesnar on Smackown. Originally Benoit was supposed to face Lesnar at No Way Out in his hometown in Edmonton but when the WWE couldn't get the building for that date it caused problems. They could've done something at Mania with Lesnar too if they wanted.

 

Let's see how this goes down. Benoit goes over to Raw for NO reason that was ever explained.Benoit's hard working never say die/won't let Paul Heyman keep him down attitude is all kaput -- he actually has to run away from Brock and Heyman on Smackdown like a big wimp. He than has the focus taken off him and has it diverted into 3 directions at Mania in the buildup. That continues with the triple threat where the very rules of a triple threat never allow it to have one man convincingly prove anything. It doesn't allow sympthany to properly grow for the face. It's a flaw in triple threats bouts and it's the reason WHY NO FACE SHOULD EVER WIN A TITLE MATCH IN A TRIPLE THREAT. Instead of having Benoit fighting for his life in say some kind of superdramatic bout (would you put another person in a Lyger vs Sano bout?) where you could show his fighting spirit and sympthany you have a Mania bout where you get the "Yes, No, Yes, No" bout you did at Mania. Yes, that part of the bout was executed well but it was nothing compared to what Benoit could've done with almost anyone on the biggest stage. In the biggest moment of his life you want Benoit fighting for his life with a sympathetic crowd -- something only he could do. Not playing a "yes, no, yes, no" type of bout that doesn't hold up as well as a dramatic singles bout.

 

They had even built it up so well in the previous Benoit vs Lesnar bout. Benoit who was even more determined than the Rumble in 03 (which is saying a lot) doesn't give up to Lesnar. Not only does he not give up to Lesnar but he doesn't submit in dare I say the debut of the best submission move ever seen in the history of the WWE. Now can you imagine Benoit caught in that hold during Mania or No Way Out? The drama would be off the charts from that alone and that doesn't even include the rest of the match but instead they blew that off for the debacle that was Benoit's run. Man, just thinking about it that alone would've trounced anything from the Triple threat bout. I guarantee you that if Benoit and Lesnar went down the way it should've been the buildup for the match would've been better, the bout would've been a million times more dramatic, we as fans -- smartmarks, marks, your average joe on the street, your pet rock -- would remember it way more fondly and I have a feeling we would've been subjected to one of the best bouts ever. I'm not thinking from the view of only a smartmark and not the fan. I'm just not being complacent with the garbage booking that the WWE throws at us.

 

 

Eddie would've been fine.

 

I would've booked everything differently in 2004.

 

And Benoit didn't own HHH in 2004. In fact, Benoit never pinned or made him submit cleanly one on one. That's not owning someone especially when HHH got at least one victory in there.

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