Tom Zenk comments on RVD

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Of course none of this means anything...but I found it to be an interesting read.

 

The other RVD marks here likely will too.

 

Everyone else...feel free to bash away!

 

Anyways...from Zenks column:

 

 

TAKING THE SHINE OFF RVD ….

Rumor has it Eddie G is the best true worker in the WWE. That would be true. And from where I sit the crowd still goes crazy for RVD - good looks, great moves, fans like him, what more could you ask? “Nah something’s missing......” “Let’s say he hurts people.” “Yeah, that should do it.” “Let’s put some spin on it and take the shine right off RVD …”

 

RVD has youth, crowd reaction, looks, athletic ability - four reasons why all the old farts in the WWF locker room love to hate him. So here’s how they use the stooges to kill their opposition ….. -

 

01.13.2001 ‘square peg in the round hole’ - "We have not signed Van Dam," Ross emphatically stated over the phone from his office in Stamford, CT. .."We haven't had a chance to meet with him or his agent to address some concerns that we have.” The 'concern' Ross refers to is the reputation that Van Dam has allegedly earned, whether deserved or not, for being difficult to work with and having a big ego…. "It's just the fact that because of the perception of his attitude, perception being the key word… he needs to be given the opportunity to explain his point of view on this perception….There's no reason to try to get the square peg in the round hole. …. it's important that we keep a good, even keeled locker room as best we can. " John Molinaro, SLAM! Wrestling

 

[How many times have we heard this about RVD, Goldberg, people that just say no to WWF? Or think for themselves? But nothing at all about the self inflicted lethal injection of "poison" of Hall and Nash? Not to mention the huge guarantees paid for the NWO flop?]

 

07.23.2001 - ‘too much offense’ - After RVD’s signing, Ross on RVD and the Hardy’s - "Hopefully they can tweak their style to do more storytelling and less offensive spots."

 

Ross Report for August 10th 2001 –‘risky and flashy’ - “ RVD needs to slow down and take less risks on our roster… and would be well served to incorporate more solid mat wrestling into [his] attack…. less is more.”

 

On 10-20-01 this column picked up on “The not so silent campaign against RVD” noting how - “In the Ross Report for August 3, 2001, Jim Ross was among the first to raise doubts about the 'durability' of RVD in the WWF -

 

“RVD has "it" and I only hope his high risk, physical style doesn't shorten what should be a stellar career.”

Again on September 28, 2001, Ross wrote -

"RVD is .... another one who has a very unorthodox, albeit a very marketable, style. My only concern with him is certainly with that style, you just hope he can lessen his injuries."

While at the same time, Ross was denouncing a string of injuries to WCW wrestlers - "Strange that so many of the WCW talents are getting so banged up. Could it be because of the near half-speed style they utilized in Atlanta? This ain't ballet."

Taking his cue from Ross, Bob Ryder chipped in, raising doubts about RVD's basic competence as a worker -

 

RVD NOT A VERY GOOD PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER

by Bob Ryder (1Wrestling.com) 10/15/2001

“.....Professional wrestling is not supposed to be a full contact sport. People aren't supposed to get hurt from kicks and punches or from other careless acts.

Wrestlers are supposed to protect each other. Van Dam hasn't seemed to grasp that concept.....

Rob Van Dam is clearly a great entertainer and is a tremendously charismatic performer. He's not a very good professional wrestler, though....he won't be until he learns that the most important thing in professional wrestling is to protect your opponent.”

And just in case Bob's readers didn't get it - he took another shot two days later -

“Kurt Angle took a shot to the nose from Rob Van Dam Tuesday night at the Smackdown tapings that produced "lots of blood" according to a backstage source. The source tells 1Wrestling, "he mushed Angle’s nose tonight...it's not broken, but sure looked it. There was lots of blood, I think from a kick."

This marks the second time Angle has been bloodied in a match with Van Dam in recent weeks. Other Van Dam victims include Steve Austin, Test, Chris Jericho (twice), and Raven.” [bob Ryder Updated: 10/17/2001]

Smelling blood, the other sheets moved in. Not only is RVD a bad worker, they argued, but his matches are 'spud fests', he's uncooperative and he misses 'cues'.

“It appears that Angle also has some bad feelings towards RVD due to the fact that he has been dead weight for his suplexes, meaning he hasn't been going up for them thus making them look weaker. Because of this, Angle gave RVD two hard suplexes to send him a message.

Although Rob Van Dam is over with the crowd and a fan favorite, his position within the company and other WWF talent is quite different. ...Lateness and not being ready for segments are things that don't sit well with those in power positions in the WWF as well as those in the locker room.”

Finally, at week's end, a breathless Dave Scherer reported [The Daily Lariat. 19 October 2001]

“The word going around the locker room is that Rob Van Dam's recent actions (the potato shots, missing his cue on Monday) have rubbed both the Undertaker and Steve Austin the wrong way. Those are two guys whose bad side you don't want to get on.”

Happily, not everyone was swallowing this bunk -

BJ SAYS "DON'T BLAME RVD, BLAME YOURSELVES"

I hate to disagree with the consensus opinion, but if these WWF wrestlers weren't wrestling so "half speed" they wouldn't be getting banged up so much? This isn't ballet after all. That's what we were told just a month and a half ago. The WWF wanted guys who would wrestle physical...... [bJ Bethel 10/17/2001]

Then, earlier this year, the marketing people at WWE decided to use RVD to spearhead a 7-Eleven promotion to WWE's target audience. In these changed circumstances, criticizing RVD would be tantamount to undermining the marketing division of the company and be regarded as disloyalty to the company product and its bottom line. Suddenly, Ross was a RVD enthusiast …. Well not exactly but sort of.

Ross Report, 4. 19. 2002 - “His 7-Eleven promotion and his in-ring performance of late are combining to continue to elevate Rob Van Dam. Barring a serious injury, RVD is well on his way to long-term main-event status. Would like to hear him talk a little more, however.”

Ross Report 05/03/2002 - “I like where RVD is headed and my instincts tell me he is on the verge of greatness. I could watch RVD versus Eddie Guerrero every day.”

And finally the great Ross Report confession, May 24, 2002 -" Simply put, we are not providing the product our fans want to see. We need to create new rivalries, elevate more young and athletic talents and effectively introduce some well-prepared new faces. …. The balance between time devoted to in-ring action and talk must also be addressed, from where I sit.”

And all this from the same guy who'd been utilizing his column since mid last year to undermine “young and athletic talent”, to whine about RVD’s “in-ring action” and to complain how RVD should do less in the ring and “talk a little more.”

 

Answer this Ross - Who could have a ladder match like RVD's match with Eddie G on RAW? HHH? I don't think so? HH? I really don't think so! Van Dam has it all, the total package -"tough" as in wrestling hurt many a night in ECW where that was the norm?.... ask Paul E? "reliable"... he even worked on a promise or handshake when Paul E was down and out.! So just why would JR want to bury RVD.... is it personal? His weight like Big Show? Or does JR have some deeper personal issues he should come to grips with? Like his problem with Paul E? or is JR simply another stooge for the powers that be in the locker room?

 

As I said last week – “Time is running out. Vince has to take a chance on talents the people like. But for RVD and Lesnar to happen, VKM has to get rid of the "workers", the "yes men" and the family members he surrounds himself with – and that includes good ol’ platitudinous JR!”

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

i read that last week, and its pretty much all good sense.  for once zenk is reasonable rather than totally bitter, and everything he said, we have been saying here for a while now.  i wish the wwe would bloody well wake up to what everybody else has known for about a year now, that is rvd probably *is* the next big thing, they just have to use him properly.

[Guest Flyboy]

i wish the wwe would bloody well wake up to what everybody else has known for about a year now, that is rvd probably *is* the next big thing, they just have to use him properly.

So so true..

 

But, the fact is people HATE to face that fact (people who don't like him in the WWE and people who don't like him on the board)..

[Guest Patorick]

RVD 2002 = HBK 1996, in terms of audience admiration and desperation, for him to be pushed to the moon.

 

Anyone care to disagree?

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

flyboy: i hear you brother

and also, how could you be the sole member of the rvd/storm revolution??? they are 2 of my faves, so now i guess you are no longer the sole member...screw what others think!!!

[Guest Flyboy]

Whoo-hoo!  Now, they are two members!  

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I want in too.

[Guest Flyboy]

Okay, okay... you can join.

 

Looks like my sig. is going to be changing... again.  

[Guest Human Fly]

That was one Zenk's best column I've read. Hopefully the elevation of new talent not only continues but increases. With that said, 'Taker should beat HHH at KOTR and lose the title to RVD in July or August. Anything but HHH.

[Guest goodhelmet]

i read that last week, and its pretty much all good sense.  for once zenk is reasonable rather than totally bitter, and everything he said, we have been saying here for a while now.  i wish the wwe would bloody well wake up to what everybody else has known for about a year now, that is rvd probably *is* the next big thing, they just have to use him properly.

actually, almost all of zenk's columns have been true to a T! Bitter, certainly but always hitting the nail right on the head. he's already exposed the hypocrisy of the fed and vince's horrible business acumen on several occasions. every saturday, i head straight to zenk's website. the man is a clairvoyant!!!

[Guest]

I want in too.

Me too

[Guest]

Add me in too!

 

But, I will admit RVD does move (sometimes) too fast between spots. Just depends on whom he is wrestling and the story they are supposed to be telling/Selling. But, he isn't as bad as some people like to say.

[Guest Frankie Williams]

Ever hear Zenk try to cut a promo?? Its funnier than seeing an obese woman fall on her fat ass while dancing to "Hot Hot Hot" at a wedding. Good in the ring, clueless on the mic.

[Guest RicFlairGlory]

RVD 2002 = HBK 1996, in terms of audience admiration and desperation, for him to be pushed to the moon.

 

Anyone care to disagree?

Pff, sure as hell not me

 

Edit: Infact, seeing as I'm a HUGE HBK mark, I can see it quite well

[Guest RetroRob215]

Ever hear Zenk try to cut a promo?? Its funnier than seeing an obese woman fall on her fat ass while dancing to "Hot Hot Hot" at a wedding. Good in the ring, clueless on the mic.

I have not, but it seems VERY funny.

[Guest Whatmaniac]

RVD 2002 = HBK 1996, in terms of audience admiration and desperation, for him to be pushed to the moon.

 

Anyone care to disagree?

Talentwise, I think RVD is closer to the pre-1998 1-2-3 Kid in that he is over and has some very impressive high-flying moves but he needs to develop into a more well-rounded wrestler so that he won't be utterly ruined by a serious injury. X-Pac was arguably even better in 1995 than RVD is now but he has been a pale shadow of his former self ever since his neck injury. It is always better to have some technical skills to fall back on rather than depending solely on high-flying stuff that will eventauly become stale through reptition. Besides no one wants RVD to end up like Shawn Michaels or the Dynamite Kid.

[Guest Goodear]

Ever hear Zenk try to cut a promo?? Its funnier than seeing an obese woman fall on her fat ass while dancing to "Hot Hot Hot" at a wedding. Good in the ring, clueless on the mic.

I have not, but it seems VERY funny.

My favorite Zenk stuff came when he was forming a jobber team with Johnny Gunn (aka Sal Sincere, I think).  And they spend a vigenette going to the store and putting on clothes and picking up the chicks.  It was just one of the worst things ever and all involved deserved severe beatings.  I'm not sure why WCW didn't realize people HATE guys like that and immediately wanted them dead.   So the team got fed to the Wrecking Crew... which I guess where the mid-nineties version of High Voltage.  I laughed mightily.

[Guest Big Poppa Popick]

im joining flyboy and the rest

[Guest Some Guy]

I think RVD 2002=HBK 1995 not 1996, Shawn got the belt in 96 and didn't in 95 despite being far and away the best and most over performer in the WWF then (including Bret).

 

RVD was ready for the ME in October and got one and then got depushed, sounds like RVD also = Y2J 2000 and Benoit (insert year here form 1998-2001).

RVD does have some holes in his style, but that can be made up for with adding a few wrestling moves(suplexes, slams, whatever) to add to all the kicking and fliping around.  He needs to realize that he has to build up to the flipping with logical ground based moves and then go for the gusto with the high flying towards the end.  then he'd be even more over and there would be nothing (other than he mic skills) to hold him back.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

I want in too.

As do I, only I wish we could add Christian to the revolution.

 

I don't think that anyone would have a problem with that, would they?

[Guest]

I see no prob in that, LJ's in this too.

[Guest Flyboy]

Damn... I seriously don't have any more sig. space.  

 

Ugh... I'll find a way to fit you peeps in somehow.  

[Guest Flyboy]

Okay... fixed.  

 

I really don't see there is anything wrong with adding Christian... I'll just have to see what the others think about it first.  

[Guest Frankie Williams]

My favorite Zenk stuff came when he was forming a jobber team with Johnny Gunn (aka Sal Sincere, I think).  And they spend a vigenette going to the store and putting on clothes and picking up the chicks.  It was just one of the worst things ever and all involved deserved severe beatings.  I'm not sure why WCW didn't realize people HATE guys like that and immediately wanted them dead.   So the team got fed to the Wrecking Crew... which I guess where the mid-nineties version of High Voltage.  I laughed mightily.

You wanna see some unintentionally funny Zenk shit? Watch WrestleWar 92. Right before his match with Brian Pillman, Zenk is standing on the runway platform looking at the crowd. All of a sudden they blow off pyro and each side of him. His reaction is priceless. First it looks like hes fearing for his life, then he trys to act all cool and make believe like he was expecting it. Funny funny shit.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Something I'm wondering: how come when they brought gOldust in, they made him feud with RVD? The way Goldust was talking, you would have thought he was going to have a program with the Rock, but he didn't. I was thinking maybe they went with RVD as an opponent for Goldust because they figured the matches would be good, but Ross always criticized RVD's work. I haven't seen any difference in RVD's work since he got to the WWF, but all of a sudden Jim Ross feels like he can watch him wrestle all day. Don't get me wrong, I'm no big fan of RVD's work, but Jim Ross is full of crap. He talks about how the cruiserweights need to slow it down, but I want to know what his idea of good wrestling is. Would he prefer them to wrestle like the Rock?

[Guest Flyboy]

I haven't seen any difference in RVD's work since he got to the WWF, but all of a sudden Jim Ross feels like he can watch him wrestle all day.

Watch his "first" WWF match against Jeff Hardy at InVasion, then watch the ladder match that him and Eddie had.

 

Vast difference... the guy is improved greatly.  He's not perfect, his style isn't perfect, his spot-timing isn't perfect, his "punches"/forearms, BUT he has vastly improved.

 

And no, I don't think it is because Eddie is much better opponent than Jeff Hardy either... the guy *has* improved and changed.

[Guest]

[sarcasm]Thank the good lord that Zenk likes RVD, or else he would've been just another one of Scott Keith's mindless drones! Ooh, they steam my beans but fierce! All those RVD bashers are just like Scott Keith![/sarcasm]

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

i dont actually care whether SK likes RVD or not, what shat me was when ross was ragging on him in his column.  at that point rvd was employed by the wwf, so why the fuck would ross try and bury him when they are on the same team?

[Guest]

i dont actually care whether SK likes RVD or not, what shat me was when ross was ragging on him in his column.  at that point rvd was employed by the wwf, so why the fuck would ross try and bury him when they are on the same team?

 

I agreed whole-heartedly with Ross' criticisms of RVD's style, but at this point, I'd rather see his wussy punches and pointless, spot-heavy work in the main event than the same ol' bullshit we're being force fed.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

exactly, at any rate rvd could be legitimately in the main event, and i think that he, more than any other would be accepted as a legitimate threat by the marks. i say this, because of his unorthodox style and unpredictability, the wwf has (accidentally) shown that he can beat anybody on his day.