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Gas Price Check...

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I've been to Oregon enough times to know that some of the main reasons they use are that it 'creates job' and prevents oil spills because you've got someone trained doing it or something. In my limited experience it doesn't create jobs, it just takes the already there jobs and gives them more work. I really hate full service gas and everytime I'm in Oregon I do my best to not have to gas up until I'm out. Case in point: I'll be in Eugene soon for a wedding, with a rental car. I thought about driving up to Portland since I don't think there's a lot to do in Eugene with no Ducks baseball, basketball, or football going on, but decided against it because I don't want to have to get gas. Fuck that law.

 

Oh, and one time I was there I read an article in the paper about some guy who I guess is one of the main proponents of keeping the self service ban. There was some ridiculous quote in there from the guy saying something to the extent of "When I die I hope my son will continue in my footsteps fighting the good fight against self service!" I mean I'm sure there are some valid reasons for it, but fighting the good fight? Good lord.

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I was talking with a guy at work the other day and I told him if I were a gas executive I would never leave my house. There has to be tons of people that would get satisfaction from killing one of those guys no matter if its necessarily their fault or not.

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I was talking with a guy at work the other day and I told him if I were a gas executive I would never leave my house. There has to be tons of people that would get satisfaction from killing one of those guys no matter if its necessarily their fault or not.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if something like that happened at this point. It would send a message, to an extent. I'm surprised there hasn't been more violence in regards to gas prices in general. Are we just becoming too sedate as a society?

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Republicans block extra taxes on oil companies http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080610/ap_on_go_co/congress_oil_profits

 

This was expected, but this is the part that bothers me more.....

 

Separately, Democrats also failed to get Republican support for a proposal to extend tax breaks for wind, solar and other alternative energy development, and for the promotion of energy efficiency and conservation. The tax breaks have either expired or are scheduled to end this year.

 

The tax provisions were included in a broader $50 billion tax measure blocked by a GOP filibuster threat. A vote to take up the measure was 50-44, short of the 60 votes needed.

 

The windfall profits bill would have imposed a 25 percent tax on profits over what would be determined "reasonable" when compared to profits several years ago. The oil companies could have avoided the tax if they invested the money in alternative energy projects or refinery expansion. It also would have rescinded oil company tax breaks — worth $17 billion over the next 10 years — with the revenue to be used for tax incentives to producers of wind, solar and other alternative energy sources as well as for energy conservation.

 

So the oil companies could have avoided most of the taxes ANYWAY, and the republicans refuse to give any companies investing in alternative sources of fuel a tax break. And people wonder why things aren't being accomplished. It's almost as if our government has rigged the process and vowed to keep business as usual going.

The AP wasn't so charitable about it...their article was titled Senate GOP blocks windfall taxes on Big Oil.

 

Saved by Senate Republicans, big oil companies dodged an attempt Tuesday to slap them with a windfall profits tax and take away billions of dollars in tax breaks in response to the record gasoline prices that have the nation fuming.

 

While this wouldn't do anything to immediately bring down gas prices, it would allow the government to pick up extra revenue from oil company profits to pay for the government policies and services they've been benefiting from.

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New Jersey May Drop Ban on Self-Service Gas Stations

 

I got a couple of old timey gas stations and Indian reservations around that still have attendents pump gas for you, but to have a whole state that's not self serve blows my mind. Anyone from Jersey or Oregon want to explain the justifaction. Do they think pepole are too stupid to pump their own gas? The only thing that makes sense to me is that they want to save a few jobs.

My GF is from NJ..the thing that saves the "cant pump your own gas" thing every time is "what about old/disabled people, how will they get gas?" apparently. If they drop Full Service requirement, I wonder if the price will go down about 10 cents which is the usual premium for full service at the few places I see it around here. If that happens, gas up there would be some of the cheapest in the country.

 

Also, I paid $3.95 up in Harrisburg PA earlier for gas although I saw as high as $4.04

 

Also, the line in the article about Oil companies avoiding the windfall tax if they expanded refineries is a joke...theres no way the government's would let them expand/build new refineries due to all the regulation and NIMB/Enivornmental wackjobs, so thats just a stupid statement to make. And companies like Shell are already heavily invested in alternatives like Hydrogen. But again, regulation gets in the way too much there as well.

 

Also, I think Glenn mentioned today on the radio (not his stage show) that a poll found that only 20% of people blame the oil companies for the price of gas, with more blame going to speculators, lack of conservation and *GASP* the Governments refusal to allow any domestic drilling. At some point, and soon hopefully, the government will tell the environmentalists to go screw themselves because they cant keep putting their minority interests in front of the interests of the nation as a whole.

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While I don't normally agree with Marvin, but seeing that this country has to be in in the top 10(possibly 5) oil producing countries in the world. I fail to see how refusing to drill for oil in the US(or off shore) is such a bad thing when we are paying 140 for crude. Clean Air wack jobs are preventing from drilling in like 5 places where combined have to have as much oil as some of these small and midsized mid east countries in OPEC.

 

I all for adding B20 to diesel batch because only 5 percent of that to the diesel market would wipe out 25% of OPEC bought oil. Because it could go off the dirtier crude and veggie oil to make a quality product for diesels. I am all for more biofuels on the market. Since 1 million cars nation wide can run E85 right now without any mods. 3/4 all cars made after 1985 could too, just need to change their fuel filter and fuel line(40 dollars in parts at most) and they can run on a fuel that is currently going 2.50 a gallon nation wide.

 

Biggest problem is that this fuel market isn't sold on how much is available right now like EVERY OTHER PRODUCT in the market. Its based on product years from now. I know less and less people are driving so if the demand is dropping the price should not be rising. I am blaming OPEC, Big Oil, Speculators, Gov, and city planners 60 to 100 years ago with building cities in a way so that no public transportation could be used. LA and Houston are in a condition I like to call Infinite City Sprawled, or ICS, that it would take decades and billions of dollars to put in a public train or subway system to hit all of the major suburbs as well as downtown. It doesn't help that the current city limits of Houston are about the size of the state of Connecticut.

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You say $2.50 nationwide, but it is nowhere near my area. In fact, I clicked on a link recently, perhaps in this thread, that showed where alternative fuel was sold. It is not as abundant as necessary. Millions and millions of people would not have access to that fuel source.

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We have 3 times as much coal as Saudi Arabia has oil right now, just waiting around wondering when we're going to decide to notice it. The coal is practically standing there with a sign that says "PICK ME, I CAN BE MADE INTO GAS CHEAPER THAN YOU CAN GET IT FROM THE MIDDLE EAST NOW...I USED TO BE EXPENSIVE BUT..HAVE YOU SEEN THE PRICE OF OIL LATELY?!" But of course, yep..the government isn't going to allow that either. The US has to have the worst energy policy of any country in the world, its amazing. Due to the fact that we won't build new refineries here, they're building quite a few of them over in Iran and the rest of the middle east with one of the purposes being so that they can refine the crude oil there into gas and sell it to us in barrels instead of shipping us the oil letting us do that step, skipping out the middle man and making them way more money. Brazil manages to become completely energy independent through sugarcane ethanol..proving that if done right that way works. And lets not forget Russia..they're cutting taxes on Oil Companies so that they can use the extra money to find more oil for them. Least I forget to mention France and their 70% energy generation through nuclear means.

 

The fact is, if the idiots in Washington continue on the same path as they have been for the last 30 years plus when it comes to the energy policy of this nation, its going to go flying over the cliff and crashing to the ground and there wont be anything we can do about it.

 

 

 

 

 

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Marvin, you are the one keeping us on the same course.

 

Drill more, use more, mine more, use more, more more, more more.

 

The fact is that CTL is much dirtier than using oil as fuel. And it is more expensive. The only reason its becoming competitve NOW is that oil is so expensive. It won't bring the price DOWN at all.

 

You all seem to forget that there is something called "the environment" and so desperate to get cheap energy that you are not counting secondary costs of these fossil fuels in your energy equation. Progress as usual is exactly what has put us in this situation, progress as usual here and other countries adopting our style.

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Marvin, you are the one keeping us on the same course.

 

Drill more, use more, mine more, use more, more more, more more.

 

The fact is that CTL is much dirtier than using oil as fuel. And it is more expensive. The only reason its becoming competitve NOW is that oil is so expensive. It won't bring the price DOWN at all.

 

You all seem to forget that there is something called "the environment" and so desperate to get cheap energy that you are not counting secondary costs of these fossil fuels in your energy equation. Progress as usual is exactly what has put us in this situation, progress as usual here and other countries adopting our style.

 

We can all enjoy that wonderful clean environment when we're traveling around in our brand new 2011 horse and buggy. I care about the environment but not enough to risk the entire livelihood of the whole country just because some wackjobs want us to not kill a few polar bears and moose.

 

"Progress as usual" hasn't put us in "this situation", its a complete reluctance by the government to allow for any expansion/improvement/upgrade to the nation's energy grid be it through oil drilling, refineries, dams, nuclear plants, coal excavation, wind turbines..etc. While simultaneously keeping us "addicted" to foreign oil when we have several alternatives in our own soil just sitting there that would not only be cheaper in production costs, but also help towards energy independence and a step towards not having as much interest in the middle east to where we feel the need to have a war there every 10 years or so.

 

If we dont do anything to get domestic oil, it is said that at China's current pace of consumption and growth they will consume ALL of the oil the middle east produces within 10-15 years. Are we going to go to war with China for it? China is already drilling in the Gulf of Mexico (50 miles off Key West Florida in area governed by Cuba) and possibly accessing oil that is technically under United States waters. It is absolutely mind blowing that our government wont let US touch it, but they'll let China just go at it for free..

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Fuck no! Don't you understand that we're going to be able to produce a lot of energy here, in ten to fifteen years, through renewable means, if we fucking TRY? Further, why in the world would the middle east sell ALL their oil to China? We have buying power too.

 

"Progress as usual" is an unwillingness to reduce our energy use, to change the American lifestyle, or to invest in sources and mediums of energy that are outside the box.

 

I care about the environment but not enough to risk the entire livelihood of the whole country just because some wackjobs want us to not kill a few polar bears and moose.

You obviously do not care about the livelihood of this whole country because you are actively resisting steps that will ensure its livelihood for the next century just to preserve your lifestyle today. Global Warming is going to do more than just kill a few polar bears, Marvin. I mean, do you even know what life will be like when clean fresh water is in the kind of demand that oil is today? And that CTL and Tarsands tech take waaay more water than standard oil refining? These are not good solutions.

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Guest Tzar Lysergic
The problem with all of the focus on oil and energy is that a great deal of the price rise is really artificial. Speculators are driving up the price, and what can you really do to legislate on that?

 

SHOOT THE BASTARDS

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I love that Eric keeps saying its Americans fault for living in areas where planners made it so that they CAN'T do anything but drive. And areas where there are massive public transportation networks like New England, are so fucking expensive that you need a 55 to 100K job to just survive. Never mind that we can distill dirty water/sea water to refine products a lot cheaper than keep bringing in a pumping fresh water. And that "the greater good of this country needs to find other resources" all the while right now the bottom 20% of this country is just struggling to pay rent and drive to work.

 

We as a country DO need to protect the environment and find renewable resources. B20(which can be made off of peanut/soy beans and recycle oil) and E85 (which could be made of sugar canes or a corn stocks with the leftover sold to the ranchers as feed) are a great start. But right now over Bush43's reign, we have seen gas go up over 500% which is going to cripple this country. Many industries and markets are going to under and more jobs to be loss. Bigger recession means weaker dollar which means another excuse for oil prices to rise. So this "bed we need to lie in" is a bunch of crap because it isn't the people who work's fault when they are the ones being screwed by Big Oil/OPEC/Gov/Planners/Speculators.

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What, were America's "planners" from some other country!?

 

Do you know how much it costs, how much energy is necessary to distill fresh water from salt water???

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Guest Tzar Lysergic

I was going to say a sheet of plastic and the sun, but that'd be another eyeroll.

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That would only help if we had a fleet of electric cars, Rant...

 

You mean you can't use it for electricity for houses and stuff?

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Well the topic here is Gas Prices, no?

 

I suppose you could use the nukes to destill water.

 

But I maintain that there are still too many questions about nuclear waste, and uranium is no more renewable than oil is.

 

Better to use offshore wind farms, say, to get the power to destill water...

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Do we have to draw you a picture? Nuclear power used for electricity would mean less oil and gas used to power homes and businesses, lowering demand for those commodities and subsequently lowering gas prices. And why the hell are you talking about nukes?

 

Like others have pointed out, France and other countries are using nuclear power plants to generate power, without ensuing nuclear holocaust. Hell, we have a few here, let's not forget. The nuclear waste boogey man is a poor excuse not to pursue further expansion of nuclear energy in the US.

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We really, really, really don't use that much gas and oil to generate electricity in this country.

 

Coal is 50%, Natural Gas is 20%, Petroleum is 1.5%, Nuclear is 19.5%

 

Fun story, Natural Gas is probably going to cost double what it cost last year, so think of all the stories of old people freezing to death in 6 months when you hear stories of old people dying of heat exhaustion this summer..the Government hates the Old people!

 

 

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...the Government hates the Old people!

 

I think everyone is going to start disliking old people real soon when they start retiring in droves and the government raises our taxes through the roof to pay for their retirement benefits which their generation screwed up.

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Guest Tzar Lysergic
But I maintain that there are still too many questions about nuclear waste, and uranium is no more renewable than oil is.

 

Breeder Reactors

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Guest Vitamin X

I think the point Eric is trying to make is that investing in nuclear power is not the best long-term solution because it's not renewable power. I personally have little issue with nuclear power, since what the hell else are we going to use uranium for anyways (the nuclear arms race is long over, welcome to the 21st century), but it's not as clean, environmentally sound, and reliable source of energy as solar, wind, hydro, and biomass.

 

Again, it's kind of like the same argument being made over and over- "Well, we can divert demand elsewhere, which will help lower gas prices!" which is always going to end up being a short-term fix unless people start driving less (if current figures and stories going around in the last few months are any sign of it, it looks like that's happening) as well as generally being more conscious of their energy usage.

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