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alfdogg

NBA Preseason Thread

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"Lack of playoff experience." I don't get it, either.

Or that playoffs and regular season are two different things.

 

I still don't see a single thing that the Bulls did that will help them beat the heat any more than they could have last year. They had freakishly high shooting percentages from 3 last year, but no inside presence to stop shaq and they still don't.

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I think it's realistic to put them in the ECF but would be a stretch to say they go to the Finals or win it all.

 

 

They've got good outside shooters already and, with the combination of Wallace and Tyrus Thomas, they've got good defenders capable of dominating in the paint.

 

 

 

The questions they'll really have to answer are whether Ben's offensive shortcomings can be worked around and whether Tyrus Thomas's offense starts developing fully.

 

 

Thomas put up a lot of points at times at LSU, but some of them were the result of a fast break / alley oop combo, which are too gimmicky to work well in the pros.

 

If he developed his offensive game like he was reputed to before the draft, it may mean that they can put him in at the C rather than the PF at times when they need an extra shooter out on the floor, since Wallace's nerve damage makes him pretty useless at putting up points.

 

 

 

 

I'd be nervous about putting them in the Finals or having them win it all because I feel that Cleveland, Miami, and New Jersey are all Finals contenders in the East and that San Antonio and Dallas will be dangerous out of the West.

 

(New Jersey's a bit of a stretch, but I figure that having Marcus Williams available to spell Jason Kidd will help out considering that Kidd has had some injuries in the past.)

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I think this will be a learning year for Tyrus Thomas. But, the Bulls have a lot of frontcourt depth, so it's not like they need him to reach his potential right away.

 

The way I see it right now Cleveland, Miami and Chicago are going to be the best teams in the East. Indiana and New Jersey should be good, but I wouldn't consider either of them to have a shot at making the finals. Detroit is the wildcard. It wouldn't surprise me to see them rally around everyone writing them off and make a strong playoff run, but it also wouldn't surprise me to see them really feel the loss of Wallace, Flip Saunders to get outcoached, and they get knocked off early.

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I deleted my post up there, so I could put it in a less rude manner.

 

I'm not trying to say OMG FINALS~ for the Bulls or anything, but Ripper is essentially implying that Ben Wallace, a four time DPOTY and NBA champion, and PJ Brown, a former all-star who is still good for a double-double on any given night, when given the minutes, is somehow not an upgrade over Tyson Chandler. I don't know if that was his intent, but if it was, I'd really like to hear him elaborate on this.

 

And based on some of his commentary since the Miami series, it does kind of seem like he's letting his feelings towards Wallace cloud his judgment slightly when it comes to the Bulls.

 

My rankings in each conference right now would probably look something like this:

 

East

1. Miami

2. Chicago

3. New Jersey

4. Cleveland

5. Detroit

6. Indiana

7. Orlando

8. Washington

 

bubble: Milwaukee, Philadelphia

 

West

1. San Antonio

2. Phoenix

3. Dallas

4. LA Clippers

5. Houston

6. Utah

7. Sacramento

8. Denver

 

bubble: LA Lakers, NO/OK. Again, I just think the loss of Gasol will be too much for Memphis to overcome.

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I think Utah will be good, I have them in the playoffs. Derek Fisher was my pick for most underrated pickup for a reason. He's got as much big game experience as anyone, he's a very good shooter, solid defender, knows how to run an offense, he's a difference maker for a team like Utah. Deron Williams is on the rise. They have front court depth. Kirilenko is a great player when healthy. Sloan is a great coach. They have the talent to be a dangerous team.

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Utah's been decimated by injuries the last couple years (134 games lost just between AK and Boozer). If healthy, they shouldn't have much trouble getting in.

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Guest Princess Leena

Hi, I don't really follow the NBA much anymore, and just have 2 questions.

 

1) How bad will the Knicks be this year. Is it possible they can go like 6-76, or something.

 

2) How have the Clippers improved, since people are picking them 4th in the West.

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1) They're not that bad, but they really did nothing to convince me that they'll be any better, either. Supposedly Isiah is a guy that can relate to the players, and it'll all click and they'll be at least a bubble playoff team, but I'll believe that when I see it.

 

2) The only major change, without looking, is picking up Tim Thomas from the Suns. Radmanovic went to the other LA team. So, I'd say that's an upgrade. I think they made one other move, too, I'll have to look that up.

 

EDIT: Nope, that's really the only thing different.

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Oh AK-47 is gonna be a big star in the league sooner or later. But Boozer... i just really don't feel it from him. But I'm not really high on Carlos Boozer, even when he is in good health. That's just me though.

 

I'll throw out my top 8 for each now (I'm doing it like playoff seedings btw)

 

East

1. Miami

2. Chicago

3. Cleveland

4. New Jersey

 

(I think the top 4 is pretty unanimous right now, order notwithstanding)

5. Washington

6. Detroit

7. Milwaukee

8. Indiana

 

It's a nice top 6, but boy does it start to drop off.

Bubble: Toronto (An improving team, I really wanted to put them in, but I just couldn't.), Orlando

 

West

1. Dallas

2. LA Clippers

3. San Antonio

4. Denver

5. Phoenix

6. Memphis

7. LA Kobes

8. Houston

 

Bubble: Sacramento (I fought for a while between Houston and Sac-Town. Houston won, Seattle

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1) They're not that bad, but they really did nothing to convince me that they'll be any better, either. Supposedly Isiah is a guy that can relate to the players, and it'll all click and they'll be at least a bubble playoff team, but I'll believe that when I see it.

 

I'd really like for him to logically explain why getting 78 shooting guards makes him think he's gonna actually win anything.

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Hi, I don't really follow the NBA much anymore, and just have 2 questions.

 

1) How bad will the Knicks be this year. Is it possible they can go like 6-76, or something.

 

2) How have the Clippers improved, since people are picking them 4th in the West.

 

The Knicks will go 82-0, have 5 starters in the all-star game, sweep the post-season awards, go 'FO-FO-FO-FIVE' in the playoffs and then crash a plane into ground zero

 

...sorry, I was blinded by your cleavage and cocaine nose job, can't be held accountable for my previous statements :D

 

(and Tim Thomas is a fugazi bum. Not an upgrade for the Clippers. 1) He was on the Suns, 2) He was playing for a contract)

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West

1. Dallas

2. LA Clippers

3. San Antonio

4. Denver

5. Phoenix

6. Memphis

7. LA Kobes

8. Houston

 

Bubble: Sacramento (I fought for a while between Houston and Sac-Town. Houston won, Seattle

 

No NO/OK Hornets even on the horizon?

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West

1. Dallas

2. LA Clippers

3. San Antonio

4. Denver

5. Phoenix

6. Memphis

7. LA Kobes

8. Houston

 

Bubble: Sacramento (I fought for a while between Houston and Sac-Town. Houston won, Seattle

 

No NO/OK Hornets even on the horizon?

 

Peja just doesn't really do it for me. They're not a horrible team by any means... if they were in the East, they would be fighting for the 6, 7, or 8 spot probably.

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I really think Detroit will at least challenge for the Central again, sue me.

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I deleted my post up there, so I could put it in a less rude manner.

 

I'm not trying to say OMG FINALS~ for the Bulls or anything, but Ripper is essentially implying that Ben Wallace, a four time DPOTY and NBA champion, and PJ Brown, a former all-star who is still good for a double-double on any given night, when given the minutes, is somehow not an upgrade over Tyson Chandler. I don't know if that was his intent, but if it was, I'd really like to hear him elaborate on this.

 

And based on some of his commentary since the Miami series, it does kind of seem like he's letting his feelings towards Wallace cloud his judgment slightly when it comes to the Bulls.

 

 

Yeah, its a upgrade, which is why they will be improved. But I still don't think the team the have on the floor is what it is going to take to beat Miami, because as I have said before, Ben Wallace is probably the best help defender in the NBA right now, but strong, aggressive bigs that go at him don't just beat him, they own him. He is still a 6"8 guy trying to bang. That is why his game play leaped so much when Rasheed Wallace came to the Pistons as Rasheed is a defensive banger, although people seemed to have forgotten because he is Rasheed "i'm a two guard on offense" Wallace on the other end.

 

For Ben Wallace to be effective, you need 4 guys who are good offensively to make up for his offensive liability(which the bulls have) and a solid defensive big man who can cover real bigs. They KINDA have that in PJ, but I have a feeling that PJ and Ben won't be on the court that much together.

 

In 04-05 when Chandler played 80 games and 27 minutes per, He averaged 8 points, 10 rebounds and 2 blocks.

 

Wallace in 81 games last year and with 10 more minutes a game, averaged 9.5 points, 12 rebounds and 3 blocks.

 

Now I know stats don't make the player and clearly Ben Wallace is a better player than Tyson Chandler by a landslide. But in his role with the Bulls, Tyson Chandler could do near what Wallace will do for them. He coudn't add confidence which I am sure they will have more of now, and he couldn't add that NBA championship leader ship and he damn sure wasn't going to be able to hold his own on a swith with a SF or SG like Wallace can, but he grabbed the boards that his jumpshooting guards put up there, and he blocked or altered shots when they got buy their man and he dunked the occasional ball when rolling to the basket. All while taking only 5 shots a game in compared to Wallace's new found need to be involved offensively and chucking up 10 shot per game.

 

This isn't video games. You don't just put in a player with higher ratings in the same position and the team automatically gets better. The role left by Chandler will be filled by Wallace and if wallace has a monster season of 5 blocks a game, 16 rebounds and 4 steals, then he will be giving them twice what Tyson did. But as it stands, you can expect pretty much the same output with the team having a little more swagger and confidence which will mean more wins in the regular season, but when they run up on some teams that have been in the playoffs with them and aren't afraid of them, they are going to have trouble. And in a Miami/Chicago series, no, Ben Wallace is not a upgrade. You still have a center that can't stop the opposing bigs only he shoots a worse freethrow percentage.

 

The big aqusistion that will be really REALLY important to the bulls will be Thabo Whatshisgreekasname. Mark my words. This guy is going to make someone expendable really really quickly on the Bulls, and his defense on perimeter players will make more of a difference in the playoffs this year than Ben Wallace's defense on opposing bigs.

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(and Tim Thomas is a fugazi bum. Not an upgrade for the Clippers. 1) He was on the Suns, 2) He was playing for a contract)

 

 

Um, you do realize who is replacing right? How is Tim Thomas NOT a upgrade over Rad?

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Guest

Tim Thomas had one lucky postseason. Big fucking deal.

 

He's not the reason that the Clippers will be better, that would be Mr. Livingston.

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Tim Thomas had one lucky postseason. Big fucking deal.

 

He's not the reason that the Clippers will be better, that would be Mr. Livingston.

 

That and hopefully no main player will miss 50 games like Maggette did last year.

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ESPN Power Rankings

 

1. Miami

2. Dallas

3. San Antonio

4. Phoenix

5. Detroit

6. Chicago

7. Cleveland

8. LA Clippers

9. Houston

10. NO/OK

11. New Jersey

12. LA Lakers

13. Golden State

14. Denver

15. Utah

16. Indiana

17. Milwaukee

18. Washington

19. Orlando

20. Minnesota

21. Sacramento

22. Boston

23. Memphis

24. Toronto

25. New York

26. Seattle

27. Atlanta

28. Charlotte

29. Philadelphia

30. Portland

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Radmanovich is one of the best shooters in the NBA. Tim Thomas.....isn't. He's also lazy as fuck. He'll dog it and lose his rotation spot by midseason.

THats just bitter new york fan talking. Seriously, Vlad can't dribble, pass, defended, rebound, run, set a pick, or swing a towel on the bench effectively. He can shoot really really really really really really wide open threes at a consistant rate which is why he is a nice pick up for the Lakers, but Vlads good years are about on par with Tims bad years.

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The Bulls had to pull the plug on the Chandler experiment at some point. The guy is getting paid an insane amount of money for little useful production. To think that Ben Wallace and PJ Brown are just minor upgrades is pure lunacy.

 

There is one distinct reason Chicago is going to be better with Ben Wallace and PJ Brown on the team this year, Skiles will actually play them in the 4th quarter. Skiles had absolutely no trust in Chandler towards the end of last year. You can’t win playoff games without having quality big men in the paint at the end of the game to defend.

 

Instead of Chandler progressing from the previous year, his production actually managed to drop last year. Malik Allen played better than Chandler did. Eventually Skiles was using Tyson as backup center because he just couldn’t get it done against opposing teams starting bigs. Chandler was coming off the bench during their 12-2 run to get into the playoffs at the end of last year.

 

The Bulls had zero inside presence on offense or defense. The Bulls will have a more dynamic offense with having two veterans that can actually do something useful in the paint. Wallace turns the ball over a hell of a lot less than Chandler and doesn’t have the 4 foul a game average that Chandler does.

 

Chicago also didn’t have anyone decent at power forward. PJ Brown is an enormous upgrade over the tandem of Michael Sweetney and Othella Harrington any day of the week.

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Keep ranking Portland last. You'll see. They'll all see...

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying they'll make the playoffs or anything, but there will be an improvement. Of course the better they play, the less Greg Oden there is in their future.

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Keep ranking Portland last. You'll see. They'll all see...

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying they'll make the playoffs or anything, but there will be an improvement. Of course the better they play, the less Greg Oden there is in their future.

 

Is there some expansion team that you know about that noone else does?

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The Bulls had to pull the plug on the Chandler experiment at some point. The guy is getting paid an insane amount of money for little useful production. To think that Ben Wallace and PJ Brown are just minor upgrades is pure lunacy.

 

There is one distinct reason Chicago is going to be better with Ben Wallace and PJ Brown on the team this year, Skiles will actually play them in the 4th quarter. Skiles had absolutely no trust in Chandler towards the end of last year. You can’t win playoff games without having quality big men in the paint at the end of the game to defend.

 

Instead of Chandler progressing from the previous year, his production actually managed to drop last year. Malik Allen played better than Chandler did. Eventually Skiles was using Tyson as backup center because he just couldn’t get it done against opposing teams starting bigs. Chandler was coming off the bench during their 12-2 run to get into the playoffs at the end of last year.

 

The Bulls had zero inside presence on offense or defense. The Bulls will have a more dynamic offense with having two veterans that can actually do something useful in the paint. Wallace turns the ball over a hell of a lot less than Chandler and doesn’t have the 4 foul a game average that Chandler does.

 

Chicago also didn’t have anyone decent at power forward. PJ Brown is an enormous upgrade over the tandem of Michael Sweetney and Othella Harrington any day of the week.

 

 

Which, once again, is why they are going to be a much improved regular season team. But the reality is, Ben Wallace doesn't do a good job on any good big man in the league. None of them. Chandler didn't either. Tyson played 35 games last year so you can say that the production dropped due to that. But the year before, he was just a roaming defensive presense and they left all the down low banging to Curry who sucks defensively but was at least big to muscle people around. And then Chandler put up damn good numbers. Not Wallace numbers, but damn good ones. That is what Wallace did in Detroit. Roam. Get steals, get weakside blocks, get rebounds. He will have to do the same thing in Chicago, and while he will do it better than Chandler, That isn't going to be enough to get them over the hump.

 

PJ Brown and Thabo Greekynamedguy are HUGE pickups for this team, and honestly, having depth in the frontcourt and a big defensive guy in the backcourt are going to be bigger than having Wallace. Yes, they upgraded. Yes...the team is better. But I just don't think they will get by the Beast of the East with this squad.

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Tyson played 35 games last year so you can say that the production dropped due to that. But the year before, he was just a roaming defensive presense and they left all the down low banging to Curry who sucks defensively but was at least big to muscle people around. And then Chandler put up damn good numbers.

 

Chandler played 79 games last year. He started 50 games. He only played 35 games in the 03-04 season. Chandler also averaged an impressive 1.8 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 4.8 fouls a game in the playoffs against Miami last year.

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