Vince Russo

[Shanghai Kid 0]

According to Russo, at his highest point he was writing the entire Raw show on his home computer and than turning it into Vince who would make minor changes. Russo feels like he wasn't getting enough credit back than, he felt like WWF was keeping him a secret, and he had some beef with Jim Ross.

 

We know the low points of Russo's tenure, and he completely bombed in WCW, but to me at least alot of midcarders seemed to be bigger stars than they actually were during 98-99 (D-Lo, Val Venis, Mark Henry). Then again, who really knows what Russo was really responsible for? He claims to have written alot of the Vince/Austin stuff in 98.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I had considered a topic like this a few weeks ago.

 

Destorying a company that had years of credibility (even tho a lot of it wasn't Russo's fault) trumps bailing out a company in trouble.

[Chazz 0]

Watching what WWE has turned into today, I'd say he and Ed Ferrera deservre a lot of credit,imo.

[chaosrage 0]

A hell of a lot. The last few years make that very obvious.

 

He claims to have written alot of the Vince/Austin stuff in 98.

 

Just curious. When did he say this? In his book? I was hoping he would mention it in his shoot but he didn't.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

He deserves lots of credit. 1998/99 were horrible from a quality standpoint and his tenures in WCW & TNA were even worse. He deserves all the credit in the world for putting on such a lousy product whenever and wherever he's in charge.

[Guest Mos_Def]

laughing at 1998 being horrible...yeah right.

 

97-98 was the shit and Vince Russo had a lot to do with that. For all intents and purposes, if not for Russo Vince would probably be out of business. WWF was in a hell of a lot of trouble in 97. Russo changed the tone and direction of the company.

 

Thats not to say he didnt write a lot of stupid shit. Ego got the best of him. But to see everybody shit on him is pretty ridiculous.

 

His initial WCW stuff was actually better than people give him credit. 2000 is when everything fell apart, but WCW was a mess from top-to-bottom.

[chaosrage 0]

1998 was horrible? The year that began WWF's boom period? That's either really bad sarcasm or the strangest opinion on wrestling I've ever seen on these boards.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

His initial WCW stuff was actually better than people give him credit. 2000 is when everything fell apart, but WCW was a mess from top-to-bottom.

Vince Russo's reign in WCW saw some of the worst television in wrestling history;

 

A 32-man WCW title tournament that featured almost nothing but screwjobs and interference in every match, and a tournament final that was ruined by pointless overbooking.

 

Halloween Havoc '99 saw swerves for no reason other than to surprise people, for example Brad Armstrong beating the hot-out-of-the-gate Berlyn, and a pointless and meaningless attempt at a worked shoot with Hulk Hogan laying down for Sting, and then ending the night with an apprent title change only to reverse it the next night, which led into the aforementioned disaster of a title tournament

 

Mayhem '99 was a terrible PPV with mind-numbingly stupid booking, stipulations that were broken, and gimmickry for no reason other than to have gimmicks.

 

Starrcade '99 was another disaster, with some insipid booking and a boring and pointless rehash of Montreal, that people crapped on.

 

And let's not talk about Russo's second run in 2000, because only the biggest Russo fans and Russo himself can defend that disaster.

[Annabelle 0]

russo was great. then he was told he was great. he started running out of ideas. tried too hard to recapture the magic. now he looks like a dunce. but face it, he was responsible for many of the neat things that happened in the late 90's. but he was a one trick pony. and that pony got beat to death.

[King Kamala 0]

1998 was horrible? The year that began WWF's boom period? That's either really bad sarcasm or the strangest opinion on wrestling I've ever seen on these boards.

 

 

While I wouldn't agree with Kahran that 1998 as a whole was horrible, I'd say quality wise, it's a mixed bag The first half of 98, IMO, was like a slightly weaker '97 (Not that, that is a bad thing) and the second half was like a better 99. Pretty much any pay per view besides WrestleMania XIV and SummerSlam is a mixed bag.

 

 

I think '98 is one of the more important years in WWF history but not one of the greatest in terms of quality.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I'll give him credit for 97 / 98, but then again I have to blame him for 1999 and WCW sucking complete ass. And of course even though Hogan is a notorious politician and I'm glad Booker T finally world champion, the whole Bash 2000 bullshit could've been handled a lot better.

[GODSON 0]

People say Vince McMAHON modify his ideas and WCW didn't but to be honest, I think the real problem is that Russo did not have put up with politics in WWE like he did in WCW and he was force to change his storylines every other minute.Vince was there to stop the politics from getting in the way of Russo ideas and it was the opposite in WCW.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

1998 WWF was alright for the first part of the year, but it was completely dominated by the main event angle. There was little to no depth in the roster with most of the rest of the crew booked in silly angles and RAWs that consisted of about 10 minutes of wrestling total in a 2 hour show. It really nosedived after Summerslam when the took the belt off of Austin and drove the Undertaker feud into the ground. Quality-wise there wasn't much there and the booking steadily got worse as the year wore on. I won't deny the historical impact of the year, but it wasn't nearly as good as people viewed it at the time and pales in comparison to what WCW was doing in the two previous years. Even in 1998 the matches on Nitro blew RAW's out of the water, but WCW started suffering from massive booking problems in the main event that year.

 

1999 was probably the worst year in WWF history in terms of quality. There was almost nothing that year with Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, King of the Ring, Summerslam & Survivor Series all being among the worst PPVs that the company has ever put on. Even 2002 had some positives (ie. the Smackdown Six Era). 1999 was dreadful from start to finish. WWF finally started pulling out of their creative rut with the HHH/Steph Wedding at the very end of the year, and didn't start to get really good until around Royal Rumble time.

 

It is no coincidence that the most successful year in WWF history was 2000, both financially and from a creative standpoint, the year after Russo left.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

My favorite Russo excuse was not being able to call Rhonda Singh fat.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

People say Vince McMAHON modify his ideas and WCW didn't but to be honest, I think the real problem is that Russo did not have put up with politics in WWE like he did in WCW and he was force to change his storylines every other minute.Vince was there to stop the politics from getting in the way of Russo ideas and it was the opposite in WCW.

 

Politics sank Bischoff's WCW in 1998/1999. Russo's WCW was killed by horrid writing on his part. The one good thing that Russo did with WCW was toss out the troublemakers like Hogan and give other people (Booker T, Steiner) a chance. But the writing was so bloody awful by that point that even pushing the rights guys and getting around the politics didn't help things. To put it in perspective, WCW was doing better numbers during the horrid Sullivan run at the beginning of 2000 than Russo was pulling in by the end of the year. Kevin Nash was doing significantly better during his horrid run at the book in 1999. That's how bad Russo was.

[snuffbox 0]

I disagree with Royal Rumble '99 being one of the worst ppvs the company ever put on.

[cabbageboy 0]

I wouldn't say any of the WWF PPVs from 1999 were so bad that I felt outraged to see them as a fan. But then again I actually had the misfortune of seeing those WCW PPVs of the same time period like GAB and BATB 99. I dare say ECW was my favorite promotion for most of 1999.

 

To say Russo's WCW run in 2000 drew even less than the Nash stuff, Sullivan stuff, or his own first run is to miss the point. It might have, true. But it's because it came after all of those horrible eras and it had a cumulative effect on the fans. And by the way, Russo's "Powers that Be" era stuff was at least crazed fun, whereas the Nash and Sullivan eras were both just ungodly horrible and even worse...boring.

 

Russo's WCW tenure is like taking the movie Hellzapoppin and putting it in a wrestling ring.

[chaosrage 0]

1999 was probably the worst year in WWF history in terms of quality. There was almost nothing that year with Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, King of the Ring, Summerslam & Survivor Series all being among the worst PPVs that the company has ever put on. Even 2002 had some positives (ie. the Smackdown Six Era). 1999 was dreadful from start to finish. WWF finally started pulling out of their creative rut with the HHH/Steph Wedding at the very end of the year, and didn't start to get really good until around Royal Rumble time.

 

1999 was one of the worst years from a wrestling standpoint, but it was a very fun year, which is why the ratings stayed in the 6's and 7's. The Corporation, the Ministry, the Brood, Austin, Rock, Foley, Edge & Christian, Gangrel, The Hardy Boys, The Godfather, Val Venis, New Age Outlaws. It was fun to watch and go to shows. Not a good year for wrestling, but I'd take it over any year after 2001.

 

1998 as well wasn't the best year for wrestling but it was great from an entertainment standpoint.

 

It is no coincidence that the most successful year in WWF history was 2000, both financially and from a creative standpoint, the year after Russo left.

 

I've seen this mentioned before but I think that's a little unfair. Russo didn't have Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Saturn, Guerrero, and Kurt Angle all coming in. I those names had more to do with 2000 being successful than Russo leaving. And let's not forget that ratings fell over an entire point after Summerslam 2000, even with all of those names, and they would never again get back up to the point that Russo had them in 1999. The last rating for Raw in the 6's was August 21, 2000. Kreski fans often forget about this.

 

Creatively, 2000 was also the year that gave us things such as Naked Mideon, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, the HHH/Angle/Stephanie love triangle evaporating into thin air, Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit all getting eliminated in the first round of the KOTR, the asinine Dusty Finish with Jericho pinning HHH and not getting the title - not capitalizing on Jericho while he was red hot. I believe Russo would have capitalized the same way he did for Austin, Rock, Foley, and HHH, all of them getting the title at exactly the right time. HHH is actually one of the last wrestlers I can say that about. Angle should have beaten HHH at Summerslam 2000, where it would have really meant something, instead of getting a throw away title reign later by beating the Rock.

[strummer 0]

There were a few obvious exceptions, but the WWF from Nov. 96 till August 98 was absolutely fantastic. It's probably my favorite time watching the promotion with the only exception maybe being the 86-89 period. The wrestling might not have been that great for a good chunk of the period but the booking was incredibly effective and wrestler's were getting over based on their personalities (or extensions of their real life personalities) The match times in the fall of 98 took a nose dive with an average of about 10-12 minutes of actual wrestling in a 2 hour show. 99 was tough to watch sometimes especially the fall period with the non-stop HHH-Austin stuff. If you watched only for good in ring work then this period obviously doesn't measure up but if you liked watching a national promotion with red hot wrestlers and during a mega boom, it was quite a rush.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

I had a quick look at the ratings from crz.net of Nitro in late 99-early 00 when Russo took over the booking. There is a very noticeable jump in the ratings during his period, throughout. What is very interesting is the volatility of the ratings for both Nitro and Raw. WCW was in decline but it was still a period where people appeared to be flipping back and forth from WCW to WWF depending on what was good. The couple of weeks before Russo booked his first Nitro, the ratings dipped below 2, to about 1.7ish during the hours when Raw would get going, with the main events drawing mid to high 2's. He was able to at least keep a 3ish average during his time.

 

I think his main weakness was ppvs, both in drawing interest to and in booking. And THAT is where the money is unfortunately.

[King Kamala 0]

I think in 98 (and even into the first Russo era in WCW), WWF had great main events and mediocre undercards while WCW had great undercards and mediocre main events.

 

 

I also liked Royal Rumble '99 and SummerSlam '99. Yeah, the rest of the pay per views that year were pretty much crappy but I have a soft spot in my heart for those two and I don't know why.

[cabbageboy 0]

SS 99 wasn't a bad show I didn't think. Test/Shane and the main event were good enough.

 

I'll go along with Chaosrage and say that 2000 is the most overrated year of wrestling. Hell I'd take 2001 over 2000, despite the botched Invasion angle. The reason that the ratings fell off is that the WWF moved from USA to TNN and TNN back then didn't have as much clearance.

 

2000 from an aesthetic standpoint just doesn't do it for me. I didn't think HHH was worth a damn back then, so of course I loathed seeing him go over Foley in HIAC. They also botched the WM booking horribly going with the 4 way rather than doing the obvious HHH/Rock match that was demanded. Let's face it, Big Show had no heat and didn't deserve to go over the Rock in any way, shape, or form in 2000.

 

I might also note that I absolutely despised that shitty Road Dog/X-Pac tag team in 2000. They were utter shit and had no heat left by that point and yet were going over nearly everyone in the tag division aside from whoever had the belts. It reeked of blatant backstage politics and favortism.

 

When discussing Russo people say "Oh, Raw's ratings went up when he left." Maybe so, but WCW's were also tanking horribly and several guys got foolishly released by WCW. I'd say some of that rise in ratings was due to people deserting WCW and watching the WWF.

 

By the way, I actually enjoyed the initial Russo "Powers That Be" angle in WCW more than the WWF stuff from Oct.-Nov. 99. I enjoyed that angle in WCW up until they did yet another rehash of the NWO in Dec. 99.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

To say Russo's WCW run in 2000 drew even less than the Nash stuff, Sullivan stuff, or his own first run is to miss the point. It might have, true. But it's because it came after all of those horrible eras and it had a cumulative effect on the fans.

 

While Russo's second tenure coming after two bad ones didn't do him any favors, it didn't help that instead of doing what was needed to stop WCW from heading over a cliff, he put his foot down on the accelerator.

 

I've seen this mentioned before but I think that's a little unfair. Russo didn't have Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Saturn, Guerrero, and Kurt Angle all coming in.

 

No. He only had Austin and Rock while they were super hot and the peak years of the Austin vs. Vince feud.

 

And let's not forget that ratings fell over an entire point after Summerslam 2000, even with all of those names, and they would never again get back up to the point that Russo had them in 1999.The last rating for Raw in the 6's was August 21, 2000. Kreski fans often forget about this.

 

While it's true the ratings did slide after Summerslam, and didn't reach the peak of the Russo era, business still peaked in that 2000-1 Kreski era, Russo fans often forget this, and instead focus on Russo getting higher ratings, while ignoring the fact that it was the Kreski era that the promotion's financial peak.

 

Creatively, 2000 was also the year that gave us things such as Naked Mideon, Mae Young giving birth to a hand, the HHH/Angle/Stephanie love triangle evaporating into thin air, Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit all getting eliminated in the first round of the KOTR, the asinine Dusty Finish with Jericho pinning HHH and not getting the title - not capitalizing on Jericho while he was red hot. I believe Russo would have capitalized the same way he did for Austin, Rock, Foley, and HHH, all of them getting the title at exactly the right time. HHH is actually one of the last wrestlers I can say that about. Angle should have beaten HHH at Summerslam 2000, where it would have really meant something, instead of getting a throw away title reign later by beating the Rock.

 

Even had he been around, no way was Russo beating HHH on those political games. Hunter had a lot of power in 1999, but he had so much more in 2000 that he would have beaten Russo easily.

 

I had a quick look at the ratings from crz.net of Nitro in late 99-early 00 when Russo took over the booking. There is a very noticeable jump in the ratings during his period, throughout

 

What helped was Nitro getting cut to two hours which greatly changed the overall rating giving an artificial ratings boost, when there really was no increase in viewership.

 

The reason that the ratings fell off is that the WWF moved from USA to TNN and TNN back then didn't have as much clearance.

 

This is a common misconception. The clearance of TNN was virtually the same as USA, and certainly not enough to blame the change in channel for the ratings drop. TNN also quickly gained enough clearance soon after to be on a level to USA, which further throws that argument out of the window.

 

I know some people also like to claim that fans couldn't find Raw and that is also somehow to blame for the ratings drop, but that argument is beyond silly.

[chaosrage 0]

No. He only had Austin and Rock while they were super hot and the peak years of the Austin vs. Vince feud.

 

Kreski had Rock, Foley, HHH, and every other star whose character was developed under Russo as well. It's not like Russo was just thrown Austin, Rock, and Vince and said "Okay, go out there and do something." He crafted the storylines and developed their characters which helped them become bigger stars than they probably would have under say, today's writing team. It was Russo who came up with the idea for the Rock to call himself "The Rock" and to talk in third person, according to his shoot. I know you're not a big fan of his shoot, but I couldn't go without mentioning that.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It was Russo who came up with the idea for the Rock to call himself "The Rock" and to talk in third person, according to his shoot.

The same Vince Russo who claimed to have come up with sharpshooter spot in Montreal?

[chaosrage 0]

The same Vince Russo who claimed to have come up with sharpshooter spot in Montreal?

 

I don't know if he claimed that or not. Did he come up with it?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The same Vince Russo who claimed to have come up with sharpshooter spot in Montreal?

 

I don't know if he claimed that or not. Did he come up with it?

It's either in his book or in one of the interviews he gave to promote the book, where he claims to have been the one who came up with the sharpshooter spot. And no, he did not come up with it.

[chaosrage 0]

Who came up with it?

[JHawk 0]

Russo admitted in his shoot that all he worried about were TV ratings and not how much money the company was making.

 

This is why the most watched segment in cable wrestling history, "This Is Your Life, Rock", ended up going nowhere and why Russo still insists that David Arquette - WCW World Champion was a good idea.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Who came up with it?

I don't know, but Meltzer has said he does know and that he'll only say who it is after that person has died. From that, I'm thinking Cornette.