A couple random thoughts.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

Ok first off I have to say that I was decidely marking out for Val Venis' performance against Christian on SD! Every time I've seen this guy recently it's like balls out TOTAL NONSTOP ACTION! He freaking never takes a break. You know a guy is working fast when Christian's segments are slow in comparison. Christian did decent in this match, but in such a short match Val kind of made him look silly by how fast he was mving around. I liked the Figure-four, too. In any case, why was EDGE getting the push while VALBOWSKI was sitting around on his duff? The guy has to be at least as good as Edge in the ring (better I think), he looks ok and can handle a promo if necsessary... The crowd was pretty into this match I think (not enough to make me think they canned it).

 

On to Bob Holly. Does the WWE not realize that this guy's time has passed? I mean, that was probably the best Bob Holly match ever, and I think it may have been the best SD!match of the year, but the guys gimmick is tired. The crowd just doesn't care about this doofus, and I think it's a little too late. He was doing alright being the tough-as-nails type beating Orton up but does this guy really have a place fighting ANGLE?

 

Although on a positive note, since Angle has managed to have good matches with both Bob Holly and Edge, I can only imagine how good a match of his could be these days with someone worth their weight in workrate! I'm sure as hell not looking at you, Hogan.

 

Finally I get to ANGLE v. EDGE, the most overated feud for some time period since there was a worsely overated feud. Now before you brand me "ANGLESAULT ASS-KISSER", hold on for a moment. People (particularly that wacky duo DAN and JEFF on LAW) convinced me that this series was like ****+, pretty much every match minus the cage match. I figured I'd check it out since the cage match was decent (*** or so I'd say) and if they were better than that they might be mighty fine. So I stumble around my friends recorded shit collection and watch them---- And man I was dissapointed. I was expecting the second coming of Beniot or something. They were better than the cage match, fo sho, but only because Hogan's gimp ass didn't interfere. I mean maybe they were a high ***, or an extremely low ****, but they sure weren't MOTY's!

 

Anyway... now that I think about it... they were. Ugh.

 

So getting to my point: I really, really like Angle. Really. Edge is ok, but he's really not that special in the ring. Angle was carrying him, that much was obvious. Before I saw these matches I though Edge was better than he is. Sure; he's a viable main eventer but I would rather push RVD in his spot...

 

I admit intellectual defeat to BPS. He was right: RVD needs to go over!

 

SUMMARY:

1. Repackage Val Venis, put him in a fued with someone talented, elevate.

 

2. Bob Holly should stick to fighting midcarders (which he is good at) and not occupy Angle's time. Should be on SmackDown!, just not in a prominent role. God for the bitter ring veteran thing.

 

3. Angle/Edge best wrestling this year, still not too impressive. Edge shouldn't get the World Title push, RVD should.

 

4. Angle is my hero.

 

I don't know what the fuck I just wrote about, or why I did but I did so... Thoughts?

[Guest]

Val and Holly, as well as Albert and Test, are dead weight. That's all there is too it. Guys like Nova, the Lords of the Ring, and Shelton Benjamin should be in WWF right now, not those four.

[Guest]

Don't forget Christopher Daniels

[Guest Risk]

I don't really like Copeland's ringname.  I mean, when he was coming through the crowd and acting like someone with terets syndrome, I could see why he was called "Edge"(cause he was over the edge, as in very angry).  But now...just sounds weird.  Christian's name isn't too great either.  I would prefer if they used their real names, Adam Copeland and Jay Reso.  

 

That being said, Copeland still needs time to be a main eventer.

[Guest Anglesault]

"Adam Copeland" can be okay, but "Jay Reso" reeks of "Jobber" and we don't want that anymore for Christian. They might have to do one of those plays on a name for his last name.

[Guest Brian]

"Ok first off I have to say that I was decidely marking out for Val Venis' performance against Christian on SD! Every time I've seen this guy recently it's like balls out TOTAL NONSTOP ACTION! He freaking never takes a break. You know a guy is working fast when Christian's segments are slow in comparison. Christian did decent in this match, but in such a short match Val kind of made him look silly by how fast he was mving around. I liked the Figure-four, too. In any case, why was EDGE getting the push while VALBOWSKI was sitting around on his duff? The guy has to be at least as good as Edge in the ring (better I think), he looks ok and can handle a promo if necsessary... The crowd was pretty into this match I think (not enough to make me think they canned it)."

 

Sean Morley is an incredible worker. I didn't see the match, but was it a real figure four or a Nagata Lock, which I've seen him use in house shows.

 

"On to Bob Holly. Does the WWE not realize that this guy's time has passed? I mean, that was probably the best Bob Holly match ever, and I think it may have been the best SD!match of the year, but the guys gimmick is tired. The crowd just doesn't care about this doofus, and I think it's a little too late. He was doing alright being the tough-as-nails type beating Orton up but does this guy really have a place fighting ANGLE?"

 

Bob Holly just has no direction. Wasn't he a heel the week before?

 

"Although on a positive note, since Angle has managed to have good matches with both Bob Holly and Edge, I can only imagine how good a match of his could be these days with someone worth their weight in workrate! I'm sure as hell not looking at you, Hogan."

 

Well, I'd say Angle/Benoit redux could finally be my WWE match that breaks the **** mark which hasn't been done for the last two years or so. Angle definately looked weak in their first set, but this time around. But the best wrestlers are pretty much heels right now.

 

"Finally I get to ANGLE v. EDGE, the most overated feud for some time period since there was a worsely overated feud. Now before you brand me "ANGLESAULT ASS-KISSER", hold on for a moment. People (particularly that wacky duo DAN and JEFF on LAW) convinced me that this series was like ****+,"

 

Not really close. Especially if you watch the matches as a series and not just as individual matches.

 

"pretty much every match minus the cage match. I figured I'd check it out since the cage match was decent (*** or so I'd say) and if they were better than that they might be mighty fine. So I stumble around my friends recorded shit collection and watch them---- And man I was dissapointed. I was expecting the second coming of Beniot or something. They were better than the cage match, fo sho, but only because Hogan's gimp ass didn't interfere. I mean maybe they were a high ***, or an extremely low ****, but they sure weren't MOTY's!"

 

First one was like ***1/2, second ***1/4, cage was like *** or **3/4. Extremely disappointing given how good their first match was, but Angle tends to do that.

 

"Angle/Edge best wrestling this year, still not too impressive. Edge shouldn't get the World Title push, RVD should."

 

Can't say whether you've seen Eddie vs. RVD yet. That's what to me makes Eddie better than Angle, that he's able to carry on past psychology and stuff through out a series while carrying a lesser worker of about the same ability as Edge. But Eddie vs. RVD, best wrestling this year in WWE.

 

"4. Angle is my hero."

 

Angle is everyone's hero.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

I didn't see the match, but was it a real figure four or a Nagata Lock, which I've seen him use in house shows.

 

Well TECHNICALLY it's an "inverted figure-four". I'm not positive if that is what a Nagata Lock is or not, but if so then it was a Nagata Lock.

 

Bob Holly just has no direction. Wasn't he a heel the week before?

 

Yeah, he was the disgruntled trainer beating up on his young, "pretty" student because he was bitter about the youngster having a chance and him being old and washed-up. Going from that to a face against the most over heel in the company seems like a pretty big stretch to me. Not that the fans realy have any reason to care about him.

 

Well, I'd say Angle/Benoit redux could finally be my WWE match that breaks the **** mark which hasn't been done for the last two years or so. Angle definately looked weak in their first set, but this time around. But the best wrestlers are pretty much heels right now.

 

I agree about the Angle/Beniot thing. I also think Angle/Guerroro, Beniot/Guererro, Angle/Jericho, Beniot/Jericho and Guererro/Jericho could break the **** cap. But like you said; they're all heels. Maybe if they bring the Rock back and miraculously he's somehow not ring-rusted they could pair him with someone and maybe get to the ****1/4-****1/2 level. In fact the last match to break **** I can remember was '01 No Mercy The Rock v. Chris Jericho. I liked that because it was like a mutual carry job. Also I think RVD is a big question mark. As soon as his psychology becomes a little more developed maybe Guererro/Angle/Beniot could carry him like they can Jericho. Now that you bring it up; it DOES look like they need some face turns.

 

First one was like ***1/2, second ***1/4, cage was like *** or **3/4. Extremely disappointing given how good their first match was, but Angle tends to do that.

 

Well frankly Edge isn't special in the ring; there is only so much you can do with a guy who can put on one type of match. The way I see it is Edge is an upper-midcarder who is getting pushed A. because girls like him and B. because he was pretty over to begin with. He works hard, and I think he gives alot of effort into his matches; which I respect, but I don't think he's really in the league of Angle, Beniot, Jericho, Austin, The Rock or Guererro...

 

I don't think he's ever had a great match without someone else really good. E&C certainly weren't the best part of the TLC matches, and Edge's only other really good run has been against Angle, which has become bland. All the blame doesn't lie on Angle and Edge, though. I think the feud's booking really sucked. The feud was booked as a comedy feud and didn't have any real depth. I think it would have been better if it was a really serious feud with a serious tone... I think that would've made Angle and Edge more motivated to do well and I think they could have really brought and intensity to the ring that would have REEKED OF AWESOMENESS.

 

Can't say whether you've seen Eddie vs. RVD yet. That's what to me makes Eddie better than Angle, that he's able to carry on past psychology and stuff through out a series while carrying a lesser worker of about the same ability as Edge. But Eddie vs. RVD, best wrestling this year in WWE.

 

I saw the RVD/Eddie paperview match Keith liked so much (I figured since I was watching Edge/Angle I might as well see it, too). I didn't think it was as good as the first Angle/Edge, a tad bit better than the second and a good bit better than the cage match. My ratings for reference:

 

1st Angle v. Edge ***3/4

2nd Angle v. Edge ***1/2

Cage Angle v Edge ***

Guererro v. RVD ***1/2

 

I little different from yours but basically the same.

 

Angle is everyone's hero.

 

He outta be.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Val and Holly, as well as Albert and Test, are dead weight. That's all there is too it. Guys like Nova, the Lords of the Ring, and Shelton Benjamin should be in WWF right now, not those four.

I know Paul managed to brainwash everyone into thinking that Nova was actually a good wrestler and everything, but c'mon, give it a rest, the guy can't work. Honestly.

 

Holly and Val have no reason to be pushed. Their pushes on Smackdown are part of the bigger problem with that show, the lack of direction. If Holly is feuding with Ortan one week and babyface the next, what does that show to people actually tuning in week to week? What happened to Venus feuding with Storm? Is that over and done with? They're useless until they change their characters which are essentially glorified jobbers at best. Angle can always carry Holly, and Christian can always bump his ass off to make someone look good, but that's as far as the pushes can go without serious tuning.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Venis is sorta like a newly democratic nation after the collapse of communism, fucked over because of a policy set up by morons that had no long-term aims... That is to say, he is a product of Vince Russo.  They tried to change his gimmick back in 2000 with his WHITE BOOTS and hooking him up with Trish and slapping the IC title around his waist, but no one cared.

 

I don't know why, but I like Bob Holly, I think it's his music.  Him and Venis could make a nifty team IMO.  

 

Don't listen to Dan and Jeff, they overrate and overstate EVERYTHING that has to do with the Wwf.  Their major sponcer is Viewers Choice, VC makes most of its revenue off Wwf PPVs, Jeff and Dan basically have to say every Wwf ppv is worth watching.  They also have a huge hard-on for Edge.

[Guest RicFlairGlory]

I don't really like Copeland's ringname.  I mean, when he was coming through the crowd and acting like someone with terets syndrome, I could see why he was called "Edge"(cause he was over the edge, as in very angry).  But now...just sounds weird.  Christian's name isn't too great either.  I would prefer if they used their real names, Adam Copeland and Jay Reso.  

 

That being said, Copeland still needs time to be a main eventer.

Oh He could team with HBK and use the name Kenneth Copeland!

 

It'd be great

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

Holly and Val have no reason to be pushed. Their pushes on Smackdown are part of the bigger problem with that show, the lack of direction.

 

I agree with the first but not the second. DEFINATLY pushing these guys at random times with complete lack of definitive direction is a problem. I feel Holly's time has come and gone, and like I said he should be a midcarder, not wasting Angle's time. Val Venis, on the other hand, I feel is in line of A. a redeveloped character and B. a push. He is a very good worker and put on a very fast paced match that I enjoyed.

 

If Holly is feuding with Ortan one week and babyface the next, what does that show to people actually tuning in week to week? What happened to Venus feuding with Storm? Is that over and done with? They're useless until they change their characters which are essentially glorified jobbers at best.  

 

I agree. Wishy-washy angles are lame as hell. That's why I think Val Venis needs to be REPACKADGED, RENAMED, REPUSHED.

 

I don't want the character Val Venis pushed. Its stupid and not over... And really isn't much of a character at all. Val Venis the worker however is DAMN impressive.

 

Angle can always carry Holly, and Christian can always bump his ass off to make someone look good, but that's as far as the pushes can go without serious tuning.

 

Angle definatly carried Bob. No doubt. I'm not arguing he deserves a push.

 

Val was not being made to look particularly good by Christian. Christian could not keep up with Venis offensivly, but yes he took all the hits very well and that was one part of what the match good. But Christian over all doesn't really work as well as Val offensivly, and you can tell that his offensive segments really drag. Christian is exceptional at getting his ass-kicked, behind only Michael Cole (who is the best seller I have ever seen). Still, I preach Val Venis should be pushed just for the fact he's exciting (RVD-esque, except in the ring not above it).