All-Star Ballot

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Haven't had much baseball talk recently. What would be your All-Star ballot.

 

AL

C-Molina

1B-Giambi

2B-Soriano

SS-Rodriquez

3B-Hillenbrand

OF-Ichiro

OF-Damon

OF-Jones

 

NL

C-Santiago

1B-Helton

2B-Vina

SS-Renteria

3B-Lowell

OF-Bonds

OF-Sosa

OF-Guerrero

[Guest]

I'm so psyched for Hillenbrand, especially since ESPN ranked him #14 for 3rd basemen in the AL. He's already close to eclipsing his totals for last year, and it's only June. There are very few 3B's worthy of starting over Shea this year, if any at all. And Thank God Cal retired, because he held on to the starting position like a Pope!

[Guest DrTom]

"And Thank God Cal retired, because he held on to the starting position like a Pope!"

 

When someone compiles a record full of achievement, production, and durability, then that person can hang onto his starting job "like a Pope."  

 

Anyway, the ballots:

 

AL

 

C: AJ Pierszinski (sp?), Twins

1B: Jason Giambi, Yanks

2B: Alfonso Soriano, Yanks

SS: Alex Rodriguez, Rangers

3B: Shea Hillenbrand, Red Sox

OF: Torii Hunter, Twins

OF: Ichiro, Mariners

OF: Johnny Damon, Red Sox

 

NL

 

C: Benito Santiago, Giants

1B: Todd Helton, Rockies

2B: Jose Vidro, Expos    (Vina over Vidro, Vern?)

SS: Jimmy Rollins, Phillies

3B: Mike Lowell, Marlins

OF: Barry Bonds, Giants

OF: Andruw Jones, Braves

OF: Sammy Sosa, Cubs

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Oops...Replace Vina with Vidro. Actually it's close between Vidro and Spivey.

 

Even before I read anyone's post I knew someone would point that out.

[Guest Some Guy]

AL

SP: Derek Lowe

C: Posada, Yanks (I guess)

1B: Jason Giambi, Yanks

2B: Alfonso Soriano, Yanks

SS: Alex Rodriguez, Rangers

3B: Shea Hillenbrand, Red Sox

OF: Torii Hunter, Twins

OF: Ichiro, Mariners

OF: Johnny Damon, Red Sox

 

NL

 

SP: Curt Schilling

C: Benito Santiago, Giants

1B: Todd Helton, Rockies

2B: Jose Vidro, Expos    

SS: Jimmy Rollins, Phillies

3B: Mike Lowell, Marlins

OF: Barry Bonds, Giants

OF: Andruw Jones, Braves

OF: Sammy Sosa, Cubs

[Guest alkeiper]

I like to go by this years stats with past performance mixed in.  It seems a little silly to base all stars by two months of baseball, but I don't believe in the career pass either.  I think popularity should count for a little, but only when choosing between two otherwise equal candidates.  Anyway....

 

AL

--

C - Posada (Posada leads all qualified catchers in SLG and OBP)

1B- Giambi

2B- Soriano

SS- Rodriguez

3B- Chavez (Has the track record, thoguh I'm really close to picking Hinske)

OF- Hunter, Damon, Ordonez

SP- Lowe

 

NL

--

C- Piazza (Santiago?  I can understand the Piazza bashing, but Michael Barrett's having the best year of all.)

1B- Helton

2B- Alomar (He's had a bad year so far, but he's a HOF player.)

SS- Rollins (just a fun player)

3B- Rolen (even when he doesn't hit, he's a hell of a fielder)

OF- Bonds, Sosa, Guerrero

SP- Schilling

[Guest Kingpk]

AL:

 

SP: Derek Lowe. Red Sox

C:   Bengie Molina, Angels (They deserve a starter)

1B:  Jeremy Giambi, Yankees

2B:  Alfonso Soriano, Yankees (Still sucks on the field though)

3B:  Shea Hillenbrand, Red Sox

SS:  Alex Rodriguez, Rangers

OF:  Torii Hunter, Twins

OF:  Johnny Damon, Red Sox

OF:  Ichiro Suzuki, Mariners

 

NL

 

SP: Curt Schilling, Diamondbacks

C:   Benito Santiago, Giants

1B: Todd Helton, Rockies

2B: Jose Vidro, Expos    

SS: Jimmy Rollins, Phillies

3B: Mike Lowell, Marlins

OF: Barry Bonds, Giants

OF: Andruw Jones, Braves

OF: Sammy Sosa, Cubs

[Guest]

When someone compiles a record full of achievement, production, and durability, then that person can hang onto his starting job "like a Pope."  

Cal was painful to watch the last few years. And going by what you say, Jesse Orosco and Rickey Henderson should be all stars. Henderson at least.

[Guest DrTom]

"And going by what you say, Jesse Orosco and Rickey Henderson should be all stars. Henderson at least."

 

Who said anything about being All-Stars?  I was referring to Ripken hanging onto his starting job, "like a Pope" as it was said by someone else.  He may have been painful to watch the last couple years, but he still had periods of great productivity... just not as many of them.  He deserved his All-Star spot last year for the simple reason that he carried baseball on his back in 1995, the year fan disinterest had peaked after the previous season's strike.  

 

Some people are just bigger than the game.  Orosco certainly isn't; Henderson's achievements are, but he'll never be compared to Cal in terms of personality, humility, and popularity with the fans.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I was looking at the results and why do people vote for Bagwell, Alomar, Piazza, I.Rodriquez, and Cameron.

Do people not know that other players are having better years and are more deserving. Career achivement should play no part in who starts in the All-Star game.

[Guest Some Guy]

I like to go by this years stats with past performance mixed in.  It seems a little silly to base all stars by two months of baseball, but I don't believe in the career pass either.  I think popularity should count for a little, but only when choosing between two otherwise equal candidates.  Anyway....

 

3B- Chavez (Has the track record, thoguh I'm really close to picking Hinske)

Where is the logic there?

 

Eric Chavez's #s through 6/11

 

G   AB  R  H  2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS AVG

56 215 37 58 13 1 15 43   25 48   2  1 .344 .549 .893 .270

Plus 7 Errors

 

Eric Hinske's

 

G   AB  R  H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS AVG

58 205 37 60 17 1 12 38  29 52   5  0 .379 .561 .940 .293

Plus 15 Errors

 

Shea Hillenbrand's

 

G   AB  R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS AVG

60 244 38 78 18 1 10 43   11 43  2   1 .359 .525 .883 .320

Plus 7 Errors

 

Ok so Shea has played more games, had more hits, more 2B, less Ks, is tied with Chavez for RBI and Es (He's tied in errors with last years Gold Glove winner),  has the 2nd highest OBP, and is batting 27 points higher than Hinske and 50 points higher than Chavez.

 

So how are you close to going with Hinske who is a rookie so he doesn't have a reputation or Chavez who numbers are virtually the same?  Plus the fact that Hillenbrand is the MVP of the Sox (Not counting Lowe) and has made such  unbelieveable improvements both at the plate an in the field, and the Red Sox are in first place while the Jays and A's are below or right around .500.  That would seem to me to be enough reasons to vote for Hillenbrand.  Oh yeah, keep in mind that Manny is hurt and Brian Daubach has no where near the OBP of Manny which has given Hillenbrand far fewer RBI oppurtunities in the last month so that # would very likely be much higher than the others.

[Guest alkeiper]

Basically, I go by this years numbers AND last years.  Why?  Because you're going by only two months worth of statistics.  That's not enough to make a person an all star, IMO.

 

I'm not saying Hillenbrand isn't good, but its too early to classify him as the best 3rd baseman in baseball.  Top 5 probably, but I'd take Chavez and Glaus over him.  As for Hinske, well, you've gotta have a Blue Jay on the team, might as well be the Rookie of the Year candidate.  What'll really be interesting is which Oriole will make the team.

[Guest Kingpk]

Basically, I go by this years numbers AND last years.  Why?  Because you're going by only two months worth of statistics.  That's not enough to make a person an all star, IMO.

But it's unfair to judge an All-Star for 2002 based on their 2001 numbers.  Hillenbrand is the perfect example:  He played some ok defense but swung at everything, this year, he's more patient at the plate and it has paid off.  Hinske is VERY weak in the field, well on his way to setting a new club record for errors.

 

Shea is just better all-around.  He'll start and Hinske will be on the bench.

[Guest alkeiper]

But is Hillenbrand really better than Hinske, or is he just having a good first half.  Ballots are passed out in May after a single month of baseball.  That's insane.  You can get a good month out of anyone's career.  What about the second half?  It should count for something.  I just think it should be the best player, and the more at bats you have to look at, the better.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Basically, I go by this years numbers AND last years.  Why?  Because you're going by only two months worth of statistics.  That's not enough to make a person an all star, IMO.

But it's unfair to judge an All-Star for 2002 based on their 2001 numbers.  Hillenbrand is the perfect example:  He played some ok defense but swung at everything, this year, he's more patient at the plate and it has paid off.  Hinske is VERY weak in the field, well on his way to setting a new club record for errors.

Exactly right! You could add Tori Hunter, Jacque Jones, and Mike Lowell has players who wouldn't be deserving if you included 2001 numbers.

[Guest alkeiper]

Alright then, lets isolate 2002 stats shall we?

 

              OBP   SLG

Chavez     .339   .537

Hillenbrand .356   .510

 

That's pretty close, and given the low number of plate appearances we have to work worth, either guy would step forward with a big week.

 

So what else do we have?

 

Plus the fact that Hillenbrand is the MVP of the Sox (Not counting Lowe)

 

Ha.  What about Johnny Damon?  He's hitting .339 with 16 stolen bases.  Nomar Garciaparra has better OBP and SLG numbers.  Pedro is 7-1 and has an excellent K/BB ratio.  Right now he's the fifth best guy on the team, and that's only til Ramirez comes back.

 

and has made such  unbelieveable improvements both at the plate an in the field

 

Improving does not make you an all star.  Being the best does.

 

and the Red Sox are in first place while the Jays and A's are below or right around .500.

 

So?  If the Blue Jays had Hillenbrand instead of Hinske, would they win 90 games?

 

Oh yeah, keep in mind that Manny is hurt and Brian Daubach has no where near the OBP of Manny which has given Hillenbrand far fewer RBI oppurtunities in the last month so that # would very likely be much higher than the others.

 

I could play the "what if" game and mention that maybe if Chavez had Giambi and Damon in front of him yet, he'd have more RBIs.  Besides, I don't like to use RBIs in evaluating players.

 

Anything else?  Oh yeah, Hillenbrand plays in the AL East, in Fenway Park, against the Devil Rays, Orioles and Blue Jays.  Chavez plays in the AL West, in Oakland Coliseum, against the Angels and Mariners.

 

Do people not know that other players are having better years and are more deserving. Career achivement should play no part in who starts in the All-Star game.

 

Verne, understand I'm not talking career achievement here.  All I'm saying is, take more into consideration.  Make players earn their all star status without just having a good two months.  I don't want to tune into an All-Star game and watch flavor of the month plays go 0-3 while qualified players sit on the bench.  What has Jacque Jones showed in two months that indicates he'll be among the top 3 for the next ten years?  People want to see the best players, not the ones on hot streaks for two months that cooled off in July.

[Guest Y2BigJ]

Being from Boston and watching alot of Red Sox games, Shea has played even better then the numbers look. He is had some dramatic game winning homeruns this year and has been a great cluth player.

 

 

L

--

C - Molina

1B- Giambi

2B- Soriano

SS- Rodriguez

3B- Hillenbrand

OF- Hunter,

OF- Damon

OF- Suzuki

SP- Lowe

 

NL

--

C- Santiago

1B- Helton

2B- Vidro

SS- Rollins

3B- Lowell

OF- Bonds

OF- Sosa

OF- Jones

SP- Schilling

[Guest]

C-Molina

1B-Giambi

2B-Soriano

SS-A-Rod

3B-Hillenbrand

OF-Hunter

OF-Damon

OF-Ichiro

SP-Derek Lowe

 

C-Barrett

1B-Helton

2B-Vidro

SS-Hernandez

3B-Lowell

OF-Bonds

OF-Sosa

OF-A. Jones

SP-Tom Glavine

 

Schilling has 1 won more win, but Glavs leads the league ERA. He gets my nod.

[Guest]

letsw not forget castillo, hes in a groove with that 27 game hit streak

 

--Rob

[Guest Some Guy]

Plus the fact that Hillenbrand is the MVP of the Sox (Not counting Lowe)

 

 

Ha.  What about Johnny Damon?  He's hitting .339 with 16 stolen bases.  Nomar Garciaparra has better OBP and SLG numbers.  Pedro is 7-1 and has an excellent K/BB ratio.  Right now he's the fifth best guy on the team, and that's only til Ramirez comes back.

 

Hillenbrand carried the offense while Nomar and Damon were somewhat inconsistant for the first few months.  Just recently have Nomar and Damon gotten really hot.

 

Improving does not make you an all star.  Being the best does.

 

And he is improving and getting closer and closer to being the best.  He still has to work on not chasing breaking pitches away.  That's the reason for his reent increase in K's.

 

So?  If the Blue Jays had Hillenbrand instead of Hinske, would they win 90 games?

 

No, but would the Red Sox be 20 over without Shea?

 

I could play the "what if" game and mention that maybe if Chavez had Giambi and Damon in front of him yet, he'd have more RBIs.  Besides, I don't like to use RBIs in evaluating players.

 

It's slightly different because Giambi and Damon are not on Oakland anymore, Manny is still a member of the Sox, he's just hurt.  So Chavez has no chance of having those guys while Shea lost one of the best hitters in the Majors in front of him.

Why not use RBI?  Unless it's a leadoff or 8 or 9 hitter than they're just fine with me.  You could go by avg. with RISP, i think Shea is around .360 or so, but I'm not sure right now.

 

Anything else?  Oh yeah, Hillenbrand plays in the AL East, in Fenway Park, against the Devil Rays, Orioles and Blue Jays.  Chavez plays in the AL West, in Oakland Coliseum, against the Angels and Mariners.

 

The Oakland stadium is pretty good for pull and opposite field power hitters as evidenced by Chavez, Giambi, Big Mac, Canseco's, etc.. many homers.  As is Fenway for righties,  however the wall gives and takes away a lot of would be homers, ask Nomar and Shea about that.  Also Fenway is 380 to right field and 420 to center, so that hurts power numbers to teh opposite field.  Yaz thinks that he lost 150 homers to that part of the park.  Fenway is not the everday hitter's haven that everyone thinks.  The guys who have excelled their are/were great hitters (Ted Williams, Yaz, Mo Vaugn, Jimmy Foxx, Wade Boggs, Nomar, etc..)

 

The level of competition that the two teams face is a difference I'll give you.  I haven't seen the Angels yet, but Seatle is pretty good and I wasn't at all  impressed with Oakland when the Sox took 5/6 from them.  They are seemingly getting hot now with their pitching coming around.  When the Sox played them they were very sloppy all around the field.

 

Gotta go, I'm headed fo to Fenway for the first time this year.  It better stop raining! And the Sox better get their shit together!  Losing 4/5 is unacceptable!  

[Guest alkeiper]

The Oakland stadium is pretty good for pull and opposite field power hitters as evidenced by Chavez, Giambi, Big Mac, Canseco's, etc.. many homers

 

I'd say the players had more to do with that than the park.

As for Fenway, 150 homers is kinda spurious, not from Yaz, who was a great hitter, but from anyone.  The best thing to do is look at a players' road home run totals and double it.  Fenway is unique is that its a good hitters park, but a bad home run park.

 

But in any case, I still think recent career numbers should count.  Basically, if you had a fantasy team, which player would you take?  I'd still take Roberto Alomar on my team, cause I would think he'd be likely to improve on his numbers, given his recent history.  Bottom line though is that its all about who you want to see.

 

Schilling has 1 won more win, but Glavs leads the league ERA. He gets my nod.

 

Personally I'd take Schilling, but Glavine's pitching great.  Of course, given that Brenly's the manager, he doesn't have a prayer of starting.

[Guest Some Guy]

I'd say that Fenway is a good Doubles park and a good HR park if yuor a guy who hits high towering Home Runs.  If your a line drive hittter like Nomar and Hillenbrand than many would be HRs are turned into doubles or sometimes singles depending on how hard the ball is hit.  I think that realistically Nomar and Shea would have about 5 more HRs if they didn't play in Fenway.  SHea lost one out to right-center last night at the game I was at.  He hit the ball about 385-390ft, thats a HR in most parks to right center.

 

I agree about Alomar.  He and Mo Vaugn have to learn new pitchers and in Mo's case get his timing and health back as well.  I think both will have a good second half.  BTW Mo Vaugn is the perfect example of a great Fenway Park hitter.  When he was healthy and had his swing right it was perfect for the park. He would take outside pithers the other way and if they came in on him he would use the same swing to pull the ball down the line. That's the way of success if your a strong lefty in Fenway and in most parks actually.

[Guest King_TIL]

NL

SP--Tom Glavine

C--Mike Piazza

1B--Todd Helton

2B--Jose Vidro

3B--Albert Pujols; if he's counted as an OF, then Mike Lowell

SS--Jimmy Rollins

OF--Vladimir Guerrero

OF--Sammy Sosa

OF--Barry Bonds

 

AL

SP--Derek Lowe

C--Jorge Posada

1B--Jason Giambi

2B--Alfonso Soriano

3B--Shea Hillenbrand

SS--Alex Rodriguez

OF--Ichiro Suzuki

OF--Johnny Damon

OF--Garret Anderson