The border war...

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I don't understand why border security and economic interests have to be mutually exclusive, as some seem to be saying.

 

Stuff like that article I posted regarding San Francisco is just totally insane, though. Aren't our politicians supposed to be looking out for American interests, and not doing what's best for the nation of Mexico? It wouldn't surprise me if some of these people were being paid off by the Mexican government through the drug cartels, frankly.

[Ripper 0]

I also find it insane to raise the cost of getting a green card. People want to bitch about good people trying to make aliving here "illegally" yet all the time making it more difficult for them to do it legally. Almost a 1000 dollars? Thats insane. This country really is built around fucking poor people in as many ways possible.

[Ripper 0]

I look at it from more of a purist point of view. If we are limiting the jobs we send overseas, then where do you draw the line? If someone wants to buy a product from an overseas nation, then you are taking money away from a domestic producer that manufactures the same product. Why is this okay but outsourcing labour not okay? It amounts to the same thing in the end.

 

If a poor family has a daughter that needs surgery for life-threatening reasons, why can't they go to India to get it done at a fraction of the cost for the same amount of quality? Why are you forcing them to pay an amount of money that's much more than they can afford?

 

People say outsourcing costs many people domestically lots of problems, but there would still be many similar problems if you don't have any outsourcing at all, many of which have to do with a stagnant growth in terms of quality.

 

I don't think most people are against out-sourcing all together, however what we are told is that when companies outsource jobs, it is good for American workers. I am just eagerly awaiting to see how it is good for us. Like I said, in theory it is the bad jobs we are sending overseas in order to make room for good jobs over here, but it doesn't seem like that is what is happening. Instead it seems like the companies are taking the extra profit and investing it overseas and opening everything out of america in order to avoid taxes.

 

The correct argument is that it has long term benefits for American workers. As companies and other businesses move to countries where their production costs are the smallest, it means their products will be cheaper for Americans to consume. As goods become cheaper, people are able to obtain a better standard of living by being able to purchase more goods, and so new markets are created, and hence new jobs a created to meet the demand of these new markets.

 

It's extraordinarily easy to identify jobs that move out of the country. It's damn near impossible to identify which businesses opened because of freer trade. That's why it is politically difficult to make the argument for outsourcing without going into the economic logic of it all. All a protectionist has to do is point to a closed down steel mill and play a Springsteen song, and the whole room is sobbing.

 

 

This my friend is bullshit. Find me a case where products have been come cheaper due to outsourcing. One case. Companies outsource to get more profit, not to pass the savings on to consumers. They also use cheaper parts that will crap out sooner to drive their warrenty programs, or better yet, address out of warrenty repair cost which is also counted on by most companies to turn a profit. They also have all these loopholes where they don't have to pay any importing cost on the product outsourced. And the prices of all these product stay the exact same until viable competition or greater technology drive the want for their product down.

 

Show me, once again, where the new jobs are being created. Its been, what 10-15 years now since outsourcing really became the norm. Where are the new jobs? I know you said it is impossible to identify the businesses that opened because of freer trade, but thats because there are so very very very very few of them. Outsourced customer service jobs don't work in this model you are talking about and those are the hardest hit by outsourcing. This also isn't helping in the IT field. So the two biggest areas that are being raped by outsourcing are not going to create more work because that isn't the nature of those businesses.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I do agree that the increase in green card fees may be excessive. If the real costs of the processing, background checks, etc...do necessitate the increase, then so be it. If it's just the government shoring up losses in other areas, or a short sighted attempt to keep people out, then it should probably be re-evaluated.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

This my friend is bullshit. Find me a case where products have been come cheaper due to outsourcing. One case. Companies outsource to get more profit, not to pass the savings on to consumers. They also use cheaper parts that will crap out sooner to drive their warrenty programs, or better yet, address out of warrenty repair cost which is also counted on by most companies to turn a profit. They also have all these loopholes where they don't have to pay any importing cost on the product outsourced. And the prices of all these product stay the exact same until viable competition or greater technology drive the want for their product down.

 

Show me, once again, where the new jobs are being created. Its been, what 10-15 years now since outsourcing really became the norm. Where are the new jobs? I know you said it is impossible to identify the businesses that opened because of freer trade, but thats because there are so very very very very few of them. Outsourced customer service jobs don't work in this model you are talking about and those are the hardest hit by outsourcing. This also isn't helping in the IT field. So the two biggest areas that are being raped by outsourcing are not going to create more work because that isn't the nature of those businesses.

 

Ok firstly, have you seen your unemployment rate? Have you seen the unemployment rate of France or Germany, two of the most protectionist countries in the developed world? You guys are in the mid 4s, France is about 8 and Germany is about 9. France and Germany do not like their businesses moving out of the country, and so production costs are invariably higher. The United States allows greater competition. Some move entirely overseas, like the call centres. You're right in saying that this case doesn't reflect on better living standards for consumers or workers. But what percentage of American jobs are call-centre jobs? Most 'outsourcing' is done by businesses purchasing intermediete goods from overseas so that their final products are cheaper. If you honestly can't identify cheaper products then you need to read a fucking history book. Quality is worse? How old are you? How fucking old are you?

 

Perhaps because I don't live in the US I have a more dispassionate opinion. Frankly, starving Africans or Indians who have a family history of misery and death being allowed into Western markets, to me at least, is a good thing.

[Guest Soriano's Torn Quad]

All a protectionist has to do is point to a closed down steel mill and play a Springsteen song, and the whole room is sobbing.

This made me smile.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I do agree that we have to accept we are in a global economy. Like I said earlier in this thread, that old mill or factory in a town isn't' going to sustain the local economy forever. Communities have to diversify or whither. Some jobs are going to move overseas as the US moves to more of an information/service economy instead of the traditional agricultural/industrial economy.

[Jingus 0]

France and Germany do not like their businesses moving out of the country, and so production costs are invariably higher. The United States allows greater competition.

 

Frankly, starving Africans or Indians who have a family history of misery and death being allowed into Western markets, to me at least, is a good thing.

Aye, but here's the rub:

 

1. Companies closes their factories in America and open up new ones in Mexico.

2. Those companies pay the Mexican laborers pennies on the dollar, less than a living wage.

3. Mexicans hop the border into America in order to get a job they can survive on.

4. Those Mexicans compete for jobs with the very Americans who were put out of work by the factories closing.

 

That's not a hypothetical example, I've seen it happen.

 

If you honestly can't identify cheaper products then you need to read a fucking history book.

You don't live here. He's right. Prices never go down in America. Pretty much everything is like the oil market: prices keep rising regardless of any other circumstances.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

Aye, but here's the rub:

 

1. Companies closes their factories in America and open up new ones in Mexico.

2. Those companies pay the Mexican laborers pennies on the dollar, less than a living wage.

3. Mexicans hop the border into America in order to get a job they can survive on.

4. Those Mexicans compete for jobs with the very Americans who were put out of work by the factories closing.

 

That's not a hypothetical example, I've seen it happen.

 

1. Some companies do, yes. What proportion close down in America and move to Mexico. How many new companies start up in the US each year? Is this less than the amount that close down and move to Mexico? The plural of anecdote is data. That's what's missing from this debate. No one is looking at the bigger picture.

 

2. If someone offered you a job below the minimum wage, you wouldn't take. Unless, ofcourse, there is no alternative. Often, there is no alternative in Mexico, which is why some businesses get thousands of applications for a single job that doesn't pay great. It's called climbing the ladder. Again, read a history book. Learn about the amount of sweatshops that lined the streets of New York.

 

3. Except the ones that get those outsourced jobs ofcourse.

 

4. There are no 'fixed' amount of jobs. God doesn't emerge from the heavens on the weekend and proclaim that there shall be hence forth 3 million jobs up for grabs on Wedneday. Some sectors come and go. I hear Haiti now has a monopoly on the horse and buggy. You guys should do something about that. America once had that market NAILED.

 

You don't live here. He's right. Prices never go down in America. Pretty much everything is like the oil market: prices keep rising regardless of any other circumstances.

 

I have travelled there, and I do know that the North American continent generally doesn't defy the standard economic laws that encompass most of the world. If you have a pocket calculator on the desk your typing at, take a good look at it. You probably paid around $5 - $20 for it. If you were a student in the 60s, it probably would have cost you a couple of hundred dollars and been twice as big.

 

Sentences like 'prices never go down in America' typify the economic ignorance of this whole argument. And I haven't even touched on the whole distinction between nominal and real prices yet.

 

And again, for all the jobs that are flowing out of your country, your job rate seems to suggest that relative to most countries, you guys seem to have MORE jobs. Weird.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

You're arguing with a pro wrestler who lives in his mom's basement about economics and you're surprised that he's ill-informed?

 

Face it, most people here know economics/finance about as far as their local paper will take them. Unless you're talking about Popick of course, who knows a lot but is just as annoying if not worse.

[Jingus 0]

How many new companies start up in the US each year? Is this less than the amount that close down and move to Mexico? The plural of anecdote is data. That's what's missing from this debate. No one is looking at the bigger picture.

Alright then, provide some numbers.

 

Often, there is no alternative in Mexico, which is why some businesses get thousands of applications for a single job that doesn't pay great.

 

3. Except the ones that get those outsourced jobs ofcourse.

You just contradicted yourself. For the most part, the outsourced jobs tend to be factory work that doesn't pay shit. That's why the companies outsource in the first place: outside of first-world countries, they don't have to worry about stuff like paying a living wage, providing health care or benefits, following strict environmental regulations, paying a regular amount of tax, that kind of thing.

 

If you have a pocket calculator on the desk your typing at, take a good look at it. You probably paid around $5 - $20 for it. If you were a student in the 60s, it probably would have cost you a couple of hundred dollars and been twice as big.

That's a result of R&D and technological advances. Not outsourcing. Outsourcing is used to manufacture the products that they already make at a lower cost.

 

Also, your example is an exception, not the rule. Yes, hi-tech specialty and luxury items tend to get cheaper over time, because new breakthroughs and discoveries are made which allow them to be put together in a more cost-effective manner. But that doesn't hold true at all for basic necessities. Stuff like food, clothing, housing, electricity, gasoline, transportation, those don't get less expensive over time.

 

a pro wrestler who lives in his mom's basement

Ah yes, inaccurate character assassination, the lifeblood of great debates everywhere.

[Slayer 0]

great debates

Bwahaha

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Aren't you a pro wrestler that lives in your mom's basement? Sorry if you moved out, then I guess I was wrong.

 

You're still out of your depth here though, which I'm sure Darryl will show soon enough.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

How many new companies start up in the US each year? Is this less than the amount that close down and move to Mexico? The plural of anecdote is data. That's what's missing from this debate. No one is looking at the bigger picture.

Alright then, provide some numbers.

 

Often, there is no alternative in Mexico, which is why some businesses get thousands of applications for a single job that doesn't pay great.

 

3. Except the ones that get those outsourced jobs ofcourse.

You just contradicted yourself. For the most part, the outsourced jobs tend to be factory work that doesn't pay shit. That's why the companies outsource in the first place: outside of first-world countries, they don't have to worry about stuff like paying a living wage, providing health care or benefits, following strict environmental regulations, paying a regular amount of tax, that kind of thing.

 

If you have a pocket calculator on the desk your typing at, take a good look at it. You probably paid around $5 - $20 for it. If you were a student in the 60s, it probably would have cost you a couple of hundred dollars and been twice as big.

That's a result of R&D and technological advances. Not outsourcing. Outsourcing is used to manufacture the products that they already make at a lower cost.

 

Also, your example is an exception, not the rule. Yes, hi-tech specialty and luxury items tend to get cheaper over time, because new breakthroughs and discoveries are made which allow them to be put together in a more cost-effective manner. But that doesn't hold true at all for basic necessities. Stuff like food, clothing, housing, electricity, gasoline, transportation, those don't get less expensive over time.

 

a pro wrestler who lives in his mom's basement

Ah yes, inaccurate character assassination, the lifeblood of great debates everywhere.

 

A lot of the times they pay what's akin to living wages in the country they're in. Just because it's not equivalent to what they'd pay someone in Kansas doesn't mean they're shortchanging them, the wage of an American would be a luxury in those places. I don't think most of these jobs should provide health care insurance if they're that shitty. They wouldn't provide said insurance in the States either. That's a whole other can of worms though, depending on your views on health care. Besides, if you care about the people in these other countries, do you think they'd be better off without the work? These are menial jobs that Americans probably shouldn't be doing anymore, seeing as how you've evolved past that point. But many of these countries are still far behind, so I see it as only fair to give them a chance to play catchup by taking in the many benefits and knowledge that globalization brings. All the problems you're citing aren't related to outsourcing itself, but the handling of it. How regulated should it be? That sort of thing.

 

As for the prices, have you heard of inflation? The difference between nominal and real prices? That would go a long way.

[Jingus 0]

A lot of the times they pay what's akin to living wages in the country they're in.

And a lot of the time it's not. I have no problem with opening up a new factory which pays its workers enough to actually feed a family. What I do have a problem with is the tendency to close down a more costly factory in a wealthy country just to take advantage of the fact that you can treat employees like slaves in a poor one.

 

As for the prices, have you heard of inflation? The difference between nominal and real prices? That would go a long way.

Obviously. But my point is, like Ripper said, I can't think of a single example of where a company outsourced its labor and then passed the savings on to the consumers by lowering the price of their goods.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I would say a lot of times in America they don't pay enough to feed a family either. That's why so many people hold two, sometimes even three jobs. That's a problem everywhere. I'd say a more accurate statement is that they're paid an equivalent for their own country and standards of living. It's not gonna be the same, but that's because they live in a third world country which brings a whole slew of problems with it.

 

As for the savings, it's impossible to pinpoint unless you're willing to analyze some balance sheets and financial statements. Not to mention the fact that alot of accounting practices are stretched beyond foreseeable ethical boundaries. Again though, this isn't about what they can do for you. A company is in business to make money by providing a good or service. You can't look at it from the point of view of the consumer. It's not their responsibility to pass savings on to you, and that should not be a reason to bar them from cutting costs. How many other ways do companies save money? How many times do you think they pass savings on to consumers? A company should not be restricted when they make legal business decisions on the basis that they aren't giving enough money away. That's not capitalism, that's socialism, and that just ain't 'merican.

[Ripper 0]

I don't do that quoting crap. Find what I was refering too.

 

First that whole "if you were a student in the 60's" thing about the calculator, its all about cost of production and cost of product.

 

Profit margins are growing on products produced due to outsourcing. The savings are NOT passed on to the consumer. Outsourcing SOLE purpose for companies is to increase their profit margin. Go read a fucking history book is a retarded statement. It literally would cost over 10-20 thousand dollars to make a computer in the 50's. It cost about 75 bucks now. It would cost about 75 bucks 10 years ago, only there weren't companies that low balled everyone so they were still selling shitty computers for 1000 bucks. NO ONE is attempting to pass savings on to consumers. They are either following a marketing plan of "make prices so low we put the other guys out of business" or they are keeping up with someone with that marketing plan.

 

The profit margin in some consumer electronic products right now are over 90%. The same product profit margin was 60-70% not to long ago.

 

And once again, factory jobs are not the highest amount of outsourced jobs. Customer service and IT jobs are the highest. Companies like say, cell phone companies, have cut billions of dollars by outsourcing. Cell phone plans have gone up across the board. And then they have the nerve to justify increase in plans with "offsetting the cost of customer service" which they are getting for sub minimum wage levels! This is not a abnormality either. This is a business model that most businesses are following right now. There are no increase in savings to customers and there is no new job market being created for the jobs lost in the customer service field.

 

As for your "check you unemployment rates" thing. Here is a fun fact. The US only count's the unemployment rate as those that are actively enrolled and recieving unemployment benefits.

 

Thats right, if your unemployment runs out before you find another job, according to the US Unemployment rates, you aren't unemployeed. If you were laid off from a non profit organization(who don't pay unemployment insurance) you are not actually unemployed apparently. customer service (one of the biggest job markets in america) people who were "temp" employees(which most companies do now to avoid the cost of unemployment insurance and health insurance) when their jobs are outsourced, they offically aren't unemployed. So if a company cuts 1-2 thousand temps from their payroll not a single one of them is counted as unemployed.

 

Our unemployment rate is way higher than the percentages that are reported, and you would have to be naive to believe so. I expect Popick to come around at anytime to refute this with his economic reasoning, but the truth of the matter is there are millions of unemployed americans that don't get counted in our unemployment rate.

 

And the how old am I shit...really? Dude, product quality has eroded in recent years and anyone not retarded knows that. Anyone here has had a TV conk out on them but still has one from 10-15 years ago that is still chugging. (I have a TV from 1982 that works perfectly. Current televisions have a life expectancy of 3-5 years). You can apply that to most common consumer electronics and automobiles right now.

 

Companies are setting up cheaper production and use cheaper parts to make inferior products. And they know this. Which is why the warrenty business became so big and that puts even MORE money in the companies pockets.

 

And I might be confused about this, but I think I once read that factoring in inflation, cars still are more expensive now than they were 30 years ago by a few thousand dollar. Yet we all know that making a car has become considerably less expensive.

 

You seem to think that US companies are these good guys that only want to make a little money and pass the savings on to the consumer and make america better and that a few jobs have to be lost to make that happen. In reality, this is a "make more money" world and millions have lost jobs to so that companies can up their profit margins and the cost is inferior products and customer service.

 

YPOV can put down Jingus all he wants, but he definately seems to have a better and more realistic view of business practices than you do.

[Ripper 0]

As for the savings, it's impossible to pinpoint unless you're willing to analyze some balance sheets and financial statements. Not to mention the fact that alot of accounting practices are stretched beyond foreseeable ethical boundaries. Again though, this isn't about what they can do for you. A company is in business to make money by providing a good or service. You can't look at it from the point of view of the consumer. It's not their responsibility to pass savings on to you, and that should not be a reason to bar them from cutting costs. How many other ways do companies save money? How many times do you think they pass savings on to consumers? A company should not be restricted when they make legal business decisions on the basis that they aren't giving enough money away. That's not capitalism, that's socialism, and that just ain't 'merican.

 

 

I am not saying that they should, but DARRYLXWF seems to think that they are doing it, passing on the savings to consumers and making America a better place. Thats not the case, that isn't their goal. So basically, if you want to go with the outsourcing = good argument, you are going to have to come from another angle.

 

It is not difficult to see the jobs created are not close to being on par with jobs outsourced. And the jobs created stat REALLY does count those that lost a 40k per year job and had to go and work at McDonalds for minimum wage. It really does count that as a new job created. And it STILL doesn't come close to being on par.

 

Its not difficult to see that product cost and profit margins are not going in line with inflation.

 

Of course I can't complain too much because I get paid by a company that takes all these avenues to save money, but lets not act like: Outsourcing....its for 'merica.

[Slayer 0]

All that's missing is you guys evoking the imagery of ee-vil corporations as literal fat cats sitting in chairs lighting cigars with burning $100 bills and using the common American worker as an ottoman

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

YPOV can put down Jingus all he wants, but he definately seems to have a better and more realistic view of business practices than you do.

 

I'd like to know what you're basing this on, as nowhere in that longass post of yours did you refute anything I said regarding business practices, or even mention really.

[EricMM 0]

Oh come on Slayer, could we not bring up the middle east...

[Ripper 0]

YPOV can put down Jingus all he wants, but he definately seems to have a better and more realistic view of business practices than you do.

 

I'd like to know what you're basing this on, as nowhere in that longass post of yours did you refute anything I said regarding business practices, or even mention really.

 

 

Actually that post was to Daryl. Your name is only there because of the shot at Jingus when if I had to pick one of the two having a more realistic view on business practices, I would go with Jingus (and I don't even agree with alot of what he said)

 

And I am not trying to paint the business owners in a negative light here either by the way.

 

If you or I had a business and saw a way to legally make more money selling the same product, you would. My problem is that there is absoloutely no incentive to keep business here in America and outsourcing is not working the way that delusional theory of its benefits says its supposed to. There are actually some tax breaks to outsourcing your jobs, and there are so many work arounds to importing goods, it would be incredibly stupid for most businesses not to just move all their business other places.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I am not saying that they should, but DARRYLXWF seems to think that they are doing it, passing on the savings to consumers and making America a better place. Thats not the case, that isn't their goal. So basically, if you want to go with the outsourcing = good argument, you are going to have to come from another angle.

 

It is not difficult to see the jobs created are not close to being on par with jobs outsourced. And the jobs created stat REALLY does count those that lost a 40k per year job and had to go and work at McDonalds for minimum wage. It really does count that as a new job created. And it STILL doesn't come close to being on par.

 

Its not difficult to see that product cost and profit margins are not going in line with inflation.

 

Of course I can't complain too much because I get paid by a company that takes all these avenues to save money, but lets not act like: Outsourcing....its for 'merica.

 

A company's intention doesn't necessarily take away from the result. A CEO who runs a company that holds a factory employing 1000 workers in America doesn't do it to improve their lives or help the local economy. But that's exactly what happens. You can't apply one standard to outsourcing and another to local employment. It's the same thought process for both. A guy starts a company to make money, and other people benefit. He should not be restricted on how he goes about running his business so long as he's abiding by ethical standards. Also, let's not pretend that every CEO is a fat white man simply trying to squeeze the lifeblood out of the local populace to make a few dollars. You can be rich, successful and a good person too. I'm not saying you actually believe this, but let's face it, alot of people with the view of outsourcing being bad do believe it.

 

As for jobs created and jobs outsourced, well we went through all that already when machines took over a lot of jobs people used to do. Learn a new skill, find a new job. I'm not telling them to move, but it's not that hard to learn something new and apply it in the real world. It's tough admittedly, but if we stalled any sort of progress we made based on the fact that some people would be hard-off for a while, then we wouldn't make much at all. This is the thing with the U.S. though, in that there's not as much of a social safety net for those people while they try to move on like there would be in Europe or Canada. Of course that can be an abused priviledge, but that's another argument.

 

The world is shrinking, and companies would be stupid not to create bridges between countries now in order to take advantage of this. Maybe if all those dumbasses voted with concern for their wallet and not their soul then maybe you wouldn't have this problem (See! I worked in a Bush cheapshot that's sorta relevant).

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Okay so it seems we agree on most things, but I will say this; I think it's a little premature to assume that business will just move everything outside of North America. As long as people are educated and want to live in the U.S. (which it seems they do, contrary to public opinion) then you will still have plenty of white collar jobs in the least. Also, there will be plenty of blue collar jobs considering that the U.S. has certain resources that are cheaper produced at home, not to mention the costs of shipping goods from abroad can outweigh the savings you'd get by producing it there.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Guys get out of here and look at what Dick Cheney had to say in that thread! It's way more disturbing.

[Ripper 0]

I don't think that it will move everything, but for most industries it is smart for them to do so.

 

And if the US wants to focus on White collar jobs for future generations they need to regulate the cost of colleges also.

 

Outsourcing itself wouldn't be such a problem but combined with a already strained job market, then education cost rising each year at 3-4 times that of inflation, making it almost impossible for those that lose their jobs due to outsourcing to receive additional training, its a pretty messed up situation.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I think part of the reason college costs are rising is because too many damn people are going. I remember my freshman year of college I had way too many people in my dorm that didn't even last a year because they were just there to "try it out."

[Jingus 0]

How would that raise costs? Lots more students = lots more tuition, plus government stipends for state schools.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

More housing, more food, more professors, more classroom desks, more parking spaces, more administrators to handle the "influx" of students, more police to patrol campus, more campus personnel to clean and serve, etc.

 

I don't think that's the FULL reason for the rise in prices, some of which I think is absolutley criminals (textbook companies I'm looking at you) but I think those things contribute to some degree. My tuition has rised nearly $1,200 since I arrived three years ago. Fun to look at the history of my university bill before my upcoming senior year just to see how much costs have risen across the board. Good thing I have scholarships.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

From Jingus' previous post.

 

You just contradicted yourself. For the most part, the outsourced jobs tend to be factory work that doesn't pay shit. That's why the companies outsource in the first place: outside of first-world countries, they don't have to worry about stuff like paying a living wage, providing health care or benefits, following strict environmental regulations, paying a regular amount of tax, that kind of thing.

 

Obviously they outsource because production costs a lower. No one is arguing against that. What you don't seem to understand is why so many Mexicans, and not just Mexicans, but other people in Latin America, South East Asia, Africa, who find a western company factory opening up in their town, literally push each other over to get a job there. It's because relative to the alternative jobs in their country (I presume you've never visited a third world country, I have) are far worse. Earning US$3 a day in the will make you starve to death if you live in America, but earning US$3 in Africa gives you a livable wage. Comparing exchange rates as if they're one and the same is silly.

 

That's a result of R&D and technological advances. Not outsourcing. Outsourcing is used to manufacture the products that they already make at a lower cost.

 

Also, your example is an exception, not the rule. Yes, hi-tech specialty and luxury items tend to get cheaper over time, because new breakthroughs and discoveries are made which allow them to be put together in a more cost-effective manner. But that doesn't hold true at all for basic necessities. Stuff like food, clothing, housing, electricity, gasoline, transportation, those don't get less expensive over time.

 

Firstly, R&D and 'technological' advances are purely the result of economic growth. That's why they're a recent phenomenon. You act like the current way of life has always been the norm, but 'technology' as we know it only started since the Industrial Revolution. It was called the Industrial Revolution because for the first time, restrictions on business practices were relaxed. As for necesesity goods always rising in price, you confusing nominal price rises with real price rises. Food is certainly more accessable. I haven't yet read a history about how early 20th century America was flowing with bread and vegetables and everyone had enough to eat. Bread may have been 5 cents a hundred or so years ago, but incorporate inflation and the fact that people today have more resources than before, and the overall cost of living has actually fallen. No economist in the world will agree with your argument on prices. No 'price historian' will ever agree with you. What proportion of Americans could afford a two-story, four bedroom house in 1900? How many today?

 

I keep repeating myself about how people need to take a look at the overall picture. No one has done that yet. When studies on outsorcing are done which project that 3.4 million jobs will move overseas in 2015, that sounds pretty bad. But it sounds less concerning when you take into account the projection of 160,000,000 jobs expected to exist by 2015, or the 35 million new jobs that have been created in the past decade.

 

The call-centre jobs being lost to India was mentioned. But what wasn't mentioned was the overall growth in computer-employment. Contrary to what's said, service imports WILL decrease in price from outsourcing, which helps complimentary industries in the domestic market. There have been SO many studies on this, but they fall on deaf ears because actual empirical evidence just isn't sexy. Anecdotes are.