The Decline of Rap

[Guest benoitrulz4life]

Okay, first post since the days of Scott Keith's run as head of the roost.

 

Now when I say decline I don't mean in popularity and what-not, I mean in creativity.  Sure, Jay-Z may be a good rapper and Eminem is generally accepted as the greatest white rapper of all time (Beasties are excluded on a technicality), but when you look at their contemporaries they kind of fall flat:

 

Ja-Rule:  As stated numerous times on this board he is hated almost as much as he is loved.  Generally speaking, as a rapper, he kind of SUCKS. Ho's and clothes, et. al.

 

P-Diddy: "Sucks" doesn't even do him justice.  And *he* produced Biggie's albums?  If anyone defines mainstream sellout it's him.

 

Juvenile/Big Tymers/Lil' Wayne: Really who gives a flying thuck that you have a DVD player in your jazzed-up SUV?  Get a life you wannabe.

 

As for Jay-Z and Eminem, their earlier stuff was better and they keep getting progressively worse.  But as of now, they're all right, Jay-Z's rhyming skills are keeping him afloat.

 

IMOFO, DMX is the best rapper in America.  Raw, gritty, and violent, everything that rap should be.

 

Favorite rap song ever IMO, "Tha Shiznit" by Snoop Doggy Dogg, followed closely by "Dre Day" and "Land of tha Heartless" by Bone Thugs.

 

Gangsta rap so ruled.

 

Well I probably made some new enemies on this board, and considering I'm no rap expert (even though a white friend of mine who listens to mainstream rock exclaimed I could rap better than anyone in our senior class) I will see yuns later on.  All this rap talk gets me in the mood for some Ramones.

 

"1-2-3-4!!!!!"

[Guest razazteca]

Rawkus presents Soundbombing is the future of Hip-Hop.  Mos Def, Pharoh Monch, and the others are lyical masters of the freestyle flow.  And the Xcutioners from what I have heard seem to be masters of the turn tables, especially Rob Swift.

 

I don't want to be a pinhead no more GABBA GABBA GABBA HEY

[Guest]

rap has been in a bad slump since 98, I haven't downloaded an album since 98, I've heard alot fot he "shit" put out, and thats what it is, shit.  IMO once puffy and mase started coming out, it went all downhill, and no one person can save it.

 

--Rob

[Guest ant_7000]

Well, this summer alot of groups/rappers are coming out so I'll keep it positive. Bone Thugs (Best Horrorcore Rap group) coming out this summer and their back with Dj Uneek and Soundbombing is good, but it won't make no money outside of the East Coast so their songs have to be "FM Friendly" to sale. Trick Daddy is coming out with something, Dj Clue is coming out with his Dessert Storm album and Swiss Beatz is coming out with G.H.E.T.T.O stories. LiL Wayne coming out with 500 Degrees it might be ok I liked his last joint. The Roots coming out with Phrenology and Rakim might come out this summer and he is under Dre's Aftermath label so I'll keep it optimistic.

 

Yeah, rap is in little slump because lames like Nelly and Ja Rule are acceptable names in the Mainstream cuz they are MTV material. I would be alright if they are if they good rappers but not Nelly is garbage, and Ja is a 2Pac wannabe (has Pac's sensetive style). Puff he is so garbage doesn't seem to know what he is doing now with Bad Boy since Biggie and Mase are gone and Shyne (Puff's only hope emcee) is locked up and most or all off his R&B acts want out so Puff will have Black Rob, G-Dep, and Dream and bunch of Ghostwriters that Puff don't have confidence in them to put them out.

[Guest]

Trick Daddy sucks. Lil' Wayne sucks. Rap sucks.

[Guest]

Rap sucks.

 

This from someone who claims to like "Steve Blackmen."

 

Lots of the mainstream rap sucks; try picking up anything by CANNIBAL OX. I have their CD The Cold Vein and it is pretty great. The DAN THE AUTOMATOR Wanna Buy A Monkey mix CD is pretty great (has tracks by Black Rob, Del, Tortoise (?!?!), Bobby Digital, De La Soul and many others), and I know it came out a while ago but check out DEAD PREZ.

[Guest Ripper]

I have to say that this is Eminems best album so far IMO.  It is the second best rap album this year (Stillmatic being number one)

 

Mainstream rap is in a slump, but I think that the underground is doing just fine.

[Guest razazteca]

Ant_7000 I agree with you 100%, but the thing with Puffy is I believe that the only reason that he is "hot" is because of THE Neptunes, Pharrell and all of the remixes.  Its like if somebody is hot at the time, Sean Combs must do a remix, and get a rub, its as if he is the Mr McMahon of Hip-Hop.  Hell you could even consider the "Welcome to Atlanta" Remix has parallels to Flair vs McMahon in a battle of Producer wanna be rappers.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Well, this summer alot of groups/rappers are coming out so I'll keep it positive. Bone Thugs (Best Horrorcore Rap group) coming out this summer and their back with Dj Uneek and Soundbombing is good, but it won't make no money outside of the East Coast so their songs have to be "FM Friendly" to sale. Trick Daddy is coming out with something, Dj Clue is coming out with his Dessert Storm album and Swiss Beatz is coming out with G.H.E.T.T.O stories. LiL Wayne coming out with 500 Degrees it might be ok I liked his last joint. The Roots coming out with Phrenology and Rakim might come out this summer and he is under Dre's Aftermath label so I'll keep it optimistic.

 

Yeah, rap is in little slump because lames like Nelly and Ja Rule are acceptable names in the Mainstream cuz they are MTV material. I would be alright if they are if they good rappers but not Nelly is garbage, and Ja is a 2Pac wannabe (has Pac's sensetive style). Puff he is so garbage doesn't seem to know what he is doing now with Bad Boy since Biggie and Mase are gone and Shyne (Puff's only hope emcee) is locked up and most or all off his R&B acts want out so Puff will have Black Rob, G-Dep, and Dream and bunch of Ghostwriters that Puff don't have confidence in them to put them out.

Quick question: is Bone Thugs a different group than Bone Thungs-N-Harmony?

 

Although Trick Daddy is certainly better than most of his "dirty south" companions, he's still pretty annoying, as is Lil' Wayne.  I used to hate that stuff but love the production, but now I can't even stand the production as it's become pretty standard.  Is DJ Clue's Dessert Storm another mix-tape (which I'm generally OK with as long as he's not going to yell his name over every track and ruin it), or is it a production/compilation album? Is Swiss Beatz' album going to be a production/compilation album or an "actual" album like the Neptunes' N.E.R.D. project?

 

Anytime a new Roots album is released, a slump will temporarily end.

 

As for the current state of rap, although I don't get to seek out as many new underground artists as I would like, the underground has always been where it's at.  Although I will admit that the generally poor mainstream rap artists of today have hooks and choruses that are dumb enough that it's fun to go with on the radio ("Holla back youngin' / wh00 wh00!" became the "official theme song" of our spring break road trip) and are even somewhat danceable, I'd never be caught dead buying them because there is no substance to the rest of their tracks, and even the best hook is run to the ground within three months these days.

 

Although it certainly wouldn't be as big as it was back in the day, it's pretty obvious that gangster rap would still be a driving force today if 2Pac Shakur and Notorious B.I.G. hadn't been killed.  Even though those two were good artists (although personally I never liked Biggie's voice), the genre would be just as annoying and cliche if it had stayed on top as the mainstream rap of today is, so it's somewhat of a good thing.

 

Anyhow... I have to go eat and write a DVD column, so... hey! ho! Let's go (to lunch)!

[Guest dreamer420]

i have a few favorite rappers and no matter what song it is of theirs, I can listen to it no problem.  i like to listen to eminem, dr. dre, snoop dogg, xzibit, redman/method man, busta rhymes, jay z, and cypress hill.  all of those rappers are very consistant in their music, meaning that it is usually good.  i really don't listen to much other rap that the guys i listen except for the few odd songs.

 

i would agree with you that ja rule, dmx, nelly, and nas were all stong when they starting in the rap game but due to lack good material have suffered since their debut albums.

[Guest bdolo]

There is still alot of good rap left.  I think most hip hop purist get upset though since pop-rap like nelly, ludacris, p diddy, etc. gets most air time.  But I would have to stay there is still plenty to like, even though compared to the early and mid ninety's mainstream rap is more about if it is radio friendly compared to when it was more about good production and creative lyrics.

 

But there is still the following:

 

AZ-a new album and his best work yet

Cormega-new album of a true lyricist

Bone_ Reunited with DJ U NEEK

Styles- new album

nas-has gotten mainstream success with out making pop rap

wu tang-released six months ago but was best album since the first

raekwon-to release new album

Rakim-to make album produced by dre

Xziit and snoop relasing new albums with quality producers

scarface coming out with new album

[Guest NoCalMike]

When Gangsta rap hit in the late 80's it was new and fresh, and had a story to tell, about inner-city life yadda yadda yadda, well naturally just like anything new and "hot" it was over-exposed all to hell, so quality groups like N.W.A and various other artists like Tupac had to deal with the watering down of their creativity via 2,000,000 clones.  I also two big things that hurt Gangsta rap in the end was all the "studio gangstas" and the fact that Rappers knew if they ditched rap for hip hop, they would invite in a much bigger audience which would bring in a lot more $$$$$$$$.  I dunno, if it just me or something, but I think Eminem just benefited from the right place at the right time.  I mean I can't begin to think how numbered his days would be if he came out in '89 - '94 and started spouting out all these threats and rants on other rappers.

[Guest razazteca]

Eminim would of been just as big as he is today back then in the time period you stated.  Just considering the other white rappers of the day, Vanilla Ice, 3rd Bass, Beastie Boys, Snow, Eminim would either be king or deflated by guilt by association.

[Guest Black Lushus]

as far as I'm concerned, the whole "Dirty South" fad killed rap dead...even Ludacris...Outkast is about the only worthwhile southern group...

[Guest Ripper]

Goodie Mob and Scarface have always been amazing.  Plus the pre-Neptunes  Mystical was always a favorite of mine.  The south, just like every other place in the hip-hop culture, has its bright spots...just the "dirty south" rappers with talent never get any glory.

[Guest ant_7000]

The Dirty South have some dope rappers like Scarface (album coming soon), Goodie Mob (if still together), OutKast ( I've been down with them since 93), Trick Daddy and some of Cash Money stuff is alright. But Master P is the blame (if you don't like da Dirty Dirty) because he basically stole the fading West Coast music sound and incorprated in the south. I also believe the reason that rap is in a slump because mainstream is trying to control it and making it a business all about endorsements and shilling products now, instead of expressing an art form. Listen to the Steve Berman skits off of Eminem albums I bet you thats how A&R execs tell rappers how their shit should be

 

A&R Exec: This shit isn't coming out

Rapper A: huh why? what are you talking about?

A&R guy: Rapper B is talking about bitches, blunts, 40's, jewelry, cars, and clothes and that shit is selling like bananas. And your talking about the sun the moon and the stars, your shit is not going to sell thats why holding your album back.

 

But, anyway Im going to recommend some sleeper albums that people might pass on or don't know that is out now:

 

Cee Lo: nice blend of all kinds of music on this joint something different right now he proves that cats from the south can rhyme.

 

Soundbombing 3: I slept on the first 2, but I didn't sleep on this one. I like this one its different, songs are diverse on subject matter and blends different styles of music.

 

AZ: I haven't heard alot of this album but when listen to a couple of samples of songs I'm leaning towards buying it.

 

and some others thats coming out

Cormega

Bone Thugs N Harmony

Scarface

Xzhibit

Talib Kweli

Nelly(yeah right *roll my eyes* if you guys waiting for this to come out)

Rakim (Under Dr Dre's Production)

Styles P

 

so I think that rap will be out of its slump in the summer

[Guest RetroRob215]

I also think rap sucks and I liked Steve Blackman only during his Hardcore Title run.

[Guest ant_7000]

You and Blackman cost nothing so I'll pay ya'll no mind. Anyway do anybody have the exact dates for the albums that were mentioned? HOLLA BACK

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

Rap is in decline? I'm no rap fan by any means, but it all seems the same to me. DMX and Em being the only mainstream rappers right now that don't preach about bitches, money and hos, they're the only ones who seem relevant. But Rap is extremely popular in my area (SF Bay Area), culturally speaking. So much so, that it gets annoying, at least if you listen to Rock. It's kind of weird hearing that Rap is in decline.

 

I guess Popular Music, period, is shit nowadays.

[Guest Redhawk]

Bone Thugs (Best Horrorcore Rap group) coming out this summer and their back with Dj Uneek and Soundbombing is good, but it won't make no money outside of the East Coast so their songs have to be "FM Friendly" to sale.

Who told you that Bone was horrorcore?  Because they're not.

 

Anyway, I would say that rap's main problem is that it got too popular. Sure, that means rappers are making more money than ever -- which is good -- but it also means that every rapper is trying to appeal to more audiences -- which isn't so good. Everyone tries to have those radio-friendly songs, and beefs are downplayed as "just business." Being excessively ignorant on record has also proven to make money, so some rappers go that route (Hot Boyz, Afroman, No Limit, etc.)

 

The demon-spawn of this phenomenon is Ja Rule, who's more popular in the suburbs than on the street. He is becoming the most dominant face in hip-hop, and he's not even a rapper. Ja Rule is a singer. His second-in-command is Nelly, who is also more of a singer than anything.

 

Now this pop-rap has opened the door for the little kids, which is why we have Bow Wow and Romeo and all of them.

[Guest ant_7000]

Well, Bone's earlier stuff was somewhat horrorcore with their obession with the Ouja board and all. Redhawk, your right rap is getting too popular rappers like Ja Rule, Nelly, Ludacris, and Fabolous is wildly popular or over in the "Burbs" but they're not (except maybe Ludacris) over in the streets which could be a bad thing if rappers that are just over in the "Burbs" because they look at rap/rappers as trends IMO. I liked Ja's first album he was being himself, but now he stoled 2Pac's "Thugs need luv too" style and all the ladies are loving it so he gets a pass. And all that already sampling beats that Irv Gotti (aka Puff of 2K) is using lately you would think he wants to be the New Puffy of 2K and he should know better than that since he was a DJ. Like I said before rap is turning into a business and it all about selling products look at all the commercials that are rap oriented (Jadakiss/AI, Scarface/Frances, the lasted McDonalds spot etc). Then my friends are aspiring rappers they were filling out this form for The Source which was sponsered by Reebok some you guys might of heard of this promotion, but anyway the stip is that you have to rap about Reebok Products to win the contest and I'm thinking to myself that this is bullshit.

[Guest Redhawk]

I was just thinking of how Irv Gotti is becoming more like Puff Daddy by the day. He's supposedly going to rap on a few songs on the Murder Inc. compilation album, which means he'll probably have an "Irv Gotti and the Family" album out in the next year or so. And can he EVER get an original beat? The thing with Puffy was, he'd at least use beats from the 1980s or early 1990s that people had time to forget. Irv Gotti uses beats from songs that came out in like 1998.

 

And about the business attitude of modern-day rappers. I just saw Jermaine Dupri on MTV talking about his new clothing line. Now, I know JD isn't the best representation of rap (I think he freakin' sucks), but he said that "Whatever (rappers) do or wear, it becomes popular." That ties in to how artists nowadays can put out weak, corny, stuff like Ja Rule does and it still gets popular just because of their name.

 

And finally...I guess I wouldn't consider the Ouja board stuff horrorcore. Nor would I consider songs like "Mo Murda" and the like. To me, horrorcore is like Brotha Lynch Hung, who talks about, "I'll stab you and rip out your heart and hang it on my wall and feed the blood to my dogs"-type shit. Like real graphic, unrealistic shit.

[Guest Ripper]

Yeah, I definately wouldn't call call Bone horrorcore. I don't think they have ever a single song that would put them in Horrorcore. Some mainstream artist, like Eminem and Camron, have slurged in the Horrocore genre, though.

 

Here is the thing that still irks me...Why does Puffy get blamed for all the sampling that Bad Boy did. The Hitmen were the resedent beat maker, and Puffy would add a adlib to get a co-produced by credit. I never hear anyone get on D-dot, Stevie J or any of the rest of their cases about the sampling that they did.

 

Irv Gotti on the other hand is a waste of space. i find it funny that he will have "Produced By" on a song when it is nothing but re-hash of a older beat. THEN have the nerve to put "this song contains a sample of _________" No dog, its not a SAMPLE when you bit the whole beat that Bad Boy did. He's been doing it for years, too. I remeber seeing JaRule songs and they had the beat from Timbalands intros and other hip-hop producers. Dude is worthless.

[Guest Black Lushus]

the Gravediggaz can be considered horrorcore, those are some weird fucks...

[Guest Redhawk]

I remember Puffy saying in an interview a while back that even if he didn't come up with a beat or anything, he still "produced" the song. His logic was that *someone* had to pick which song to sample, and *someone* had to be in the studio to basically turn the machine on and hit PLAY. Also, he had to work with the singer or rapper about their voice and making it on beat and stuff. So that would quailfy Irv Gotti as a producer in Puffy's eyes, at least.

 

But yeah, Irv Gotti is wack. You should read some of his interviews, though. He really thinks he's big shit. He's real bitter that he's not as famous as Jermaine Dupri, Master P, Puffy and all of those guys.

[Guest ant_7000]

I thought Irv said he didn't want to be in the spotlight that much, but wants the attention and agree with ya'll he's wack come up with something orignial then Holla back.

[Guest Redhawk]

Yeah, he *said* he didn't want to be in the spotlight, but then he kept saying that he should be up there with the Puffys and JDs. And if he didn't want to be in the spotlight he wouldn't put "Irv Gotti Presents..." on everything and he wouldn't be rapping on this next Murder Inc CD. Oh, and he's all pissed at Jay-Z and DMX for never doing the "Murderers Row" album with Ja Rule.

[Guest KOR420]

I don't quite know what the HELL happened to Rawkus but do NOT buy soundbombing three,just keep listening to 2 and 1 because half if not most of the songs suck ass! and remember,the only good rap left is WU TANG CLAN!!!!!!! j/k here are some albums im looking forward to in the coming months

 

Styles P

Pharoahe Monch

Method Man

GZA

Raekwon

Sunz Of Man

La The Darkman

 

and remember,September is WU TANG MONTH alot of shit droppin,but im disappointed that GZA's cd doesnt drop until october 1st,99.9% of hip hop fans sleep on this man

 

 

WU TANG IS FOR THE BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest cynicalprofit]

Reason modern rap sucks, it went from being unaccepted(hated by middle class white american parents, but the kids loved it) to being accepted. It went from rat-a-tat-tat to bling bling. It stopped being about the way of life to a life style of money hoes and clothes. Remmber when dre and snooped rapped about being broke. THAT SHIT ROCKED. Now rap is pretty much dead, cept for when white boys do it cause then they bring something ELSE to the table. Instead of just stories from the hood or being rich. Man go listen to Rehab for some great white hiphop.

 

I seriously think there should be a self impossed 3 rap album limit. Album one is your start, to is where you blow up, 3 is when you talk about it. Cause after making it, thats your life, and as a consumer I dont want to spend any time or money to hear you rap about how you have it better then me, which is one of the main reasons I hate rap right now, unless its got some pop flow in it, then i dont really call it rap anyways(see nelly for this) and i can atleast enjoy it on some primaly good beat level.

 

Notice how most rappers only rap about how they now have the money, and go do they suck. Puffy sucks hardest because he was the first do it and showcase it all over his videos. those videos caused alot of backlash against puffy in the black community because it was like a gigant slap in the face saying, now i have this and you dont.

[Guest Ripper]

I still have to disagree with the "MOST RAPPERS TALK ABOUT BLING BLING"

 

MOST of the rap is still good. The mainstrem stuff is all paint by numbers.

 

"Now rap is pretty much dead, cept for when white boys do it cause then they bring something ELSE to the table. Instead of just stories from the hood or being rich. Man go listen to Rehab for some great white hiphop."

 

See, I really have to disagree. Every white rapper now is relying on funny little lines to get over (like Eminems radio friendly songs) instead of strong lyrics. Besides Eminem, you have to go and find a kid like Benifit that is just plain spitting.