Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 15, 2002 In the tag title match between Santo & Negro Casas champ vs Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero challenger on the saturday edition of CMLL had some sick head bumps. In the second fall Negro Casas went for a Frankensteiner, as the announcers called it on the top rope but was reversed into a power bomb, with Negro Casas landing safely on his shoulder and back, this did not result into a pinfall but the pain was obvious seen as Negro was slow getting up and barely could get a tag. This was the set up for the third fall and eventual new champions. In the third fall, after about 8 minutes into the fall Negro Casas went for the Frankensteiner again, but Rey Bucanero manage to stop the move and position Negro Casas into a Tombstone postion then jumped off the ropes, then while still holding on to Negro Casas dropped him on his Neck and Shoulders!!! This resulted in the final pinfall and New Tag Team Champions!!!! the trainers/doctors came in the ring with a stretcher and took him to lockerroom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted June 15, 2002 I could be hugely wrong with this but aren't all forms of piledriver (including tombstones from the top rope or not) illegal in lucha libre?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 16, 2002 Piledrivers are illegal The move that I am having a hard time to explain was a stiff looking top rope power bomb that resulted in Negro Casas landing more on his shoulders and head than say a basic WWE style power bomb, where the guy lands more on his back. if anybody else saw the match, please help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted June 16, 2002 It don't really matter Raza, it was obviously not enough of a piledriver to be counted as illegal. Thing that confused me was that the original ganso bomb spot resulted in Misawa landing directly on the top of his head, clearly a piledriver like move. I don't even understand lucha libre - I bought When Worlds Collide but I just didn't get much enjoyment from it. I don't understand why the finishes come out of literally nowhere, why the pinning combinations don't get closer and closer to three throughout the match, and (if the matches are meant to be pure spotfests) why virtually no one on that tape seemed capable of hitting spots consistently well?! I want to get it, I really do - anyone offer help? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted June 17, 2002 I don't even understand lucha libre - I bought When Worlds Collide but I just didn't get much enjoyment from it. I don't understand why the finishes come out of literally nowhere, why the pinning combinations don't get closer and closer to three throughout the match, and (if the matches are meant to be pure spotfests) why virtually no one on that tape seemed capable of hitting spots consistently well?! I want to get it, I really do - anyone offer help? Oh, come now. I'm not even close to being an authority on Lucha and I thought that Eddy/Love Machine Vs. Octagon/Santo match was incredible. Nuclear heat, fantastic offense, simple, yet riveting story, and great drama made that match transend any type of genre bariers for me. I've never seen the rest of the card from that night, but that match was just so awesome I don't see how it couldn't steel the show. However, I think the show was very hurt by booking because I've heard that aside from the great tag match, everything was decided under one fall, when they were all previously scheduled to be two out of three falls, which is a staple of lucha. Apparently, this was done to save time (even though they ended up ending the show forty-five minutes early) and it forced everyone to cram their matches together and made the work seem disjointed, which is bad because lucha matches often seem disjointed when under their normal rules anyway. Basically, I think you have to remember that Lucha is often based on much more simplistic feuds and storylines and is so fast-paced that it sometimes appears disjointed and sloppy. However, matches like the tag match I discused above contain so much history and rivalry that it is really amazing when it all comes together like it did that night. Again, that's really been my only true experience to lucha, but I think there's plenty of stuff out there that's worth getting if you have the patience. Lucha, just like everything else, is not for everyone, and can take some getting used to before it can be properly enjoyed. Just ask around and I'm sure people will be more han willing to pimp you some matches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 17, 2002 yup Lucha Libre is so confusing Santo on Saturday hit all of his spots, Suicida topes, suicida planchas and looked like a Lucha god, this Luchadore hit spots that I thought only Rey Misterio Jr could do and made it look very convincing. Just like Ricky said the history of matches make them so entertaining. In the last couple of shows Santo has started a feud with Ultimo Guerrero, demanding a mask for mask match. This tag title match from Saturday adds more to story to the feud. In the 1st pinfall Santo & Negro Casas were defeated by their own trademark moves, most noticable was the Santo submitting to the Camel Clutch. And in the 3rd pinfall Negro Casas was "injuried" real or not this gives an extra incentive for the potential mask match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dace59 Report post Posted June 17, 2002 Thing that confused me was that the original ganso bomb spot resulted in Misawa landing directly on the top of his head, clearly a piledriver like move. The spot ended as a Jumping Kneeling Vertical Sheer Drop Powerbomb. It was called as a powerbomb. And did not have the head scissors like a piledriver does, making it not a piledriver. It was a powerbomb, a nasty one, but still a powerbomb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PlatypusFool Report post Posted June 17, 2002 All fair and good and stuff Ricky, you are correct, the hair vs. hair match from WWC was really good... But I still think it could have been better so easily. The spots still weren't hit perfectly, the pins on Santo towards the end didn't get closer each time as they probably should have done (which would have added even more drama and excitment), things like the expressions on the heels faces weren't descriptive. Just little things that took away from the match and annoyed me. I'll watch it again soon as I haven't for a while, but the show as a whole is a little poor. I'll get round to getting some more traditional style lucha shows eventually, but at the moment there is just so much puro I want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest benoitrules2000 Report post Posted June 21, 2002 I just watched wwc and that tag match was simply awesome. The rest of the card was pretty average but the tag match had everything with a great angle and feud perfectly set up with the final two being eddy and santo, the two main wrestlers in the feud in the first place. Also, what the hell happans at the end? Some fan must have hit eddy cause he goes nuts and keeps trying to get at him for about five minutes with security and wrestlers holding him back. And perro aguayo comes over and hits with a briefcase which louie spicolli sells but eddy just gives him a quizzical look and tells him to F off. The ending sequence was just wierd with even konann and aguayo jumping into the crowd becuase of a fan i think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Joshi Guerrero Report post Posted June 21, 2002 Lucha is strange in that it has simple psychology and complex moves. I find allot of hardcore puro heads have trouble getting into it 'cos of a lack of clear progression in the matches and the like, It's hard to say what to advise. But once you see some Lucha that really grabs you it all clicks more or less. I think Lucha is my favourite brand of wrestling right now. As for pimping tapes, any recent EMLL is good, other stuff I would get.. EMLL PPV 3/17/00 - 16-man Torneo Cibernetico (Elimination Match) - El Felino/Black Warrior/El Hijo Del Santo/Dr. Wagner Jr./Silver King/El Satanico/Scorpio Jr./Kevin Quinn vs. Negro Casas/Atlantis/Ultimo Dragon/Shocker/El Dandy/La Fiera/Mascara Magica/Brazo De Oro - (Airdate 5/10/97) - Any of Bob Barnetts mid 90's AAA comps. - Barnett Wrestleholics Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 21, 2002 Torneo Cibernetico (Elimination Match) there was one of those matches about a month ago with Nicho, Daminian 666, Halloween, Juvi, Santo, Mascara Magica, Killer, Atlantis, Olymipico and others that ended with Santo vs Mascara Magica.....sweet match but I was disappointed with the Nicho vs Santo match up. AAA has been lacking in the last few weeks repeating the same crap over and over. Plus its hard to believe that a Lightweight title match would the worst part of the show. Extreme AAA is boring to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Joshi Guerrero Report post Posted June 21, 2002 there was one of those matches about a month ago with Nicho, Daminian 666, Halloween, Juvi, Santo, Mascara Magica, Killer, Atlantis, Olymipico and others that ended with Santo vs Mascara Magica.....sweet match but I was disappointed with the Nicho vs Santo match up. I have that on a tape I just got yesterday, looking forward to watching it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 21, 2002 this weekend Santo vs Ultimo Guerrero in a mask match!!!!! well I hope they will show it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
