Guest RetroRob215 Report post Posted June 16, 2002 What were your thoughts on the "retaliation"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 16, 2002 It was way overhyped. I'm tired of reading about it. Clemens hit Piazza TWO YEARS AGO. Let it go already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 16, 2002 It was way overhyped. I'm tired of reading about it. Clemens hit Piazza TWO YEARS AGO. Let it go already. Exactly right. Rob Dibble showed what how big an idiot he was when he said after Estes was warned he should of still hit Clemens. Great idea Rob lose your starter in the 3rd inning, and possibily another game, waste your bullpen, and motivate the Yankees who looked disinterested. This time frame for retaliation was the 2000 season. The World Series included. That same game someone could of hit of hit Jeter or Williams. This just takes focus on the Mets lousy season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jimmy no nose Report post Posted June 17, 2002 It was pretty funny when they missed trying to hit Clemens. They killed them though, that's revenge enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted June 17, 2002 I am so glad we won today and the series. Finally Vaughn came through, I never give up on players on my teams, no matter how badly they are doing, once they leave I talk shit but mo finally came through and I am excited to death. Now if everyone can start hitting we will finally see what this team can do. --Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted June 17, 2002 Mo finnally saw an AL pitcher who he owns. I think Shawn Estes lost a lot of respect on his team and around MLB for not hitting Clemens. Roger hit Piazza in the head with a 95mph fastball and then in teh WS he threw a broken bat at him. Roger has thrown at guys for less and he deserved to be hit up on the left shoulder at least, it's too bad that Astacio wasn't starting for the Mets that day. On a sidenote, I will side with Clemens on the hitting Bonds thing. Barry hangs way out over the plate and has a huge pad on his elbow, Roger should have hit him in the shoulder and maybe Barry would've back up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jimmy no nose Report post Posted June 18, 2002 It was two years ago. Everyone should get over it. Since when did two year old payback become more important than pitching a good game. You know that if he would have hit him he would have been fined and possibly suspended. Why did he need to hit him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ant_7000 Report post Posted June 18, 2002 It was way overhyped, than he (Estes) missed him (Clemens) but the Mets got revenge anyway Estes and Piazza hit homers off Clemens and shutout the Yankees. But Clemens is a punk if someone its a homer off of him than he Beans the hitter next time at bat. like people said he gets away because he's in the AL and doesn't have to bat. Sometimes baseball is so corny and nerdy/childish (I like baseball don't get me wrong) when it comes to beanball just because I'm hitting homers off your best stuff so next time your going to hit me? Stupid and cowardly. So if the pitcher struck me out looking a couple of times with a good pitches, next time when I come up to bat can I throw my bat at the pitcher? just kidding Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 19, 2002 Rob Dibble might be a blowhard, but he has a point. There's no excuse for not hitting Clemens in that situation. Estes had one chance and he didn't take it. I would have drilled Clemens square in his fat fool head to protect my teammate, but obviously, Estes felt an 87-mph fastball a foot behind his knees was enough of a "retaliation." I'm with Clemens on the Barry Bonds issue, though. Hitters wear entirely too much armor to the plate, and it's time the pitchers started taking back the inside portion of the strike zone. Let's see if those hitters are so brave without their gaudy elbow pads, hand guards, greaves, breastplates, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest treble charged Report post Posted June 19, 2002 C'mon SG, Mo like Clemens. Am I the only one who remembers that Vaughn wanted to go to Toronto when his contract was up because Clemens, Tim Johnson, and a whole wack of ex-Sox were up there? Am I the only one who remembers Clemens pitching for the Blue Jays? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ant_7000 Report post Posted June 19, 2002 I disagree with the Bonds/Clemens thing, I was hoping Bonds would kick his ass for that. So what if Bonds or any other player that wear protective armor they're just trying to avoid injury and to crowd the plate. I mean I understand that some players try to get hit on purpose thats not right, but the old saying goes take it for the team, but Bonds hasn't been known as a player that does it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 19, 2002 "So what if Bonds or any other player that wear protective armor they're just trying to avoid injury and to crowd the plate." Allow me to rearrange that for accuracy: They're just trying to crowd the plate and avoid injury at the same time. And that's the problem: the armor has taken away the risk of injury, so it's taken away the fear of crowding the plate and getting plunked for it. Hitters now stand almost on top of the plate, sometimes with their elbows actually over the plate (I'm looking at you, Chuck Knoblauch). It's simply ridiculous. Pitchers have an absolute right to use every millimeter of the plate. Were I a major-league pitcher, I'd have a rep as a headhunter, because I'd throw at every dumb bastard who leaned out over the plate and/or wore armor to the plate. MLB was supposed to make the armor illegal for hitters, but guys like Bonds and Mo Vaughn wear as much as they always did. The only things a hitter should be able to wear are a helmet and some kind of shin/lower leg guards. Ban the rest. If they want to crowd the plate, make them face the music for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 19, 2002 Another key point about Bonds-Clemens was that that pitch was barely off the plate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest treble charged Report post Posted June 19, 2002 So I AM the only person who remembers Clemens in Toronto. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 19, 2002 Why? Did he vacation there or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted June 19, 2002 Yeah, well, you know, the thing about Bonds / Clemens is, if I recall correctly, Clemens commented to New York press in such a way that effectively promised he was going to throw at Bonds (and specifically his elbow armor). Then he threw at it and hit it. Clemens should have been tossed from the game right there. And if he weren't a star player and/or a Yankee, he probably would have been. It's against the rules of the game to deliberately hit someone. Now, of course, people get deliberately hit all the time. But that's because most pitchers, talented and not so talented, aren't colossal cartoon jackasses like Clemens is. Baseball "kinda sorta" looks the other way on sticking up for youre teammates with a counter-beanball as long as nobody gets to seriously hurt. But, Clemens is dumb enough to boast to the press about doing something like this and then doing it. That's premeditation. And, as this was the first Giants/Yankees series since the 1962 World Series, there was no "Past incident" that Clemens had to answer to. He was casting the first stone. I wish Estes had "tested" Clemens' batting helmet. But still, I think it was fun to see a rattled Clemens make little league mistakes like forget to cover home (gave the Mets a run there) AND serving up a long ball to Estes. I don't have a problem with Clemens throwing inside on Bonds. I have a problem with him saying "I'm going to throw at Bonds' elbow guard" in the press ON PUBLIC RECORD and then throwing at Bonds' elbow guard and hitting it. And, consequently, Bud "No Balls" Selig doing nothing about it (one more reason why he's a farce of a commissioner, but that's a bitter rant for another time). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest treble charged Report post Posted June 19, 2002 Why? Did he vacation there or something? Pretty much yeah. He went up there, looked around for awhile, decided he didn't like it, and whined his way out of town. Stupid bastard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 20, 2002 Rob Dibble might be a blowhard, but he has a point. There's no excuse for not hitting Clemens in that situation. Estes had one chance and he didn't take it. I would have drilled Clemens square in his fat fool head to protect my teammate, but obviously, Estes felt an 87-mph fastball a foot behind his knees was enough of a "retaliation." I'm with Clemens on the Barry Bonds issue, though. Hitters wear entirely too much armor to the plate, and it's time the pitchers started taking back the inside portion of the strike zone. Let's see if those hitters are so brave without their gaudy elbow pads, hand guards, greaves, breastplates, etc. It's not so much tha Dibble said Estes should of hit Clemens. It's the fact that he called Estes a little boy. Saying even after he was warned he still should of hit Clemens. What good does that do exactly. Lose your starter in the 3rd when your pen was used the night before. Another thing that bothers me about this is when someone says this hurts team chemistry. How would this hurt team chemistry, only about 8 guys where on the Mets 2 years ago. What the hell does Mo Vaughn, or Roberto Alomar care about about what happened 2 years ago, Alomar said the same thing last week. The same thing could be said for the Yankees they have alot of new faces. One of them being Robin Ventura... does he want revenge against Clemens because he was on the Mets when the incident happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alfdogg Report post Posted June 20, 2002 Did you know that if you hit "Shift" and pressthe "/" button, you can make a question mark, like so... "?" Just wondering... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 20, 2002 Nobody remembers anything about Toronto... Meanwhile, this stuff got overhyped and only sent a bad message to people. Fighting the shadows of forlooming Strikes, Steriods and other assorted crap...Idiots decide to make this the biggest story of the year about some that happened to seasons ago. The New York Mets fucking blew their shot at Vengence in 2000 World Series by Choking in 5 games while America gave less a shit then they did L.A/N.J. When 11 year olds hear Rob Dibble say that "Shawn Estes was a joke...he was supposed to hit Roger Clemens and knock him on his ass and he didn't he failed his team and himself"...Kids take it as "I must hit the guy to gain their respct". I understand the whole "Protect your team mate" reasoning...I've played these sports but you don't need to hype it as the biggest news story in AMERICA. For fuck's sake...Luis Canstillo hitting 34 straight games...that's fucking history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RetroRob215 Report post Posted June 20, 2002 Isn't Clemens pitching against the Mets again on Sunday at Yankee Stadium? I'm sure there will be a ton of hoopla over nothing AGAIN starting tomorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RobJohnstone Report post Posted June 21, 2002 It will be nice to see piazza rope clenmens again, in Yankee Stadium. It's so funny that roger can;t take the fact that piazza owns him. --Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alkeiper Report post Posted June 21, 2002 <I>The New York Mets fucking blew their shot at Vengence in 2000 World Series by Choking in 5 games</I> I don't think they choked. From what I recall the Yankees were considered heavy favorites. <I>I'm sure there will be a ton of hoopla over nothing AGAIN starting tomorrow.</I> Agreed. I'm sick of hearing all these "bad blood" stories when 95% of the time they amount to nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest raptor Report post Posted June 21, 2002 On a sidenote, I will side with Clemens on the hitting Bonds thing. Barry hangs way out over the plate and has a huge pad on his elbow, Roger should have hit him in the shoulder and maybe Barry would've back up. That's bullshit. If you don't like someone leaning over the plate, you brush him back. You don't hit him, and you certainly don't broadcast the fact that you're going to do it. It was premeditated, and Clemens needs to be suspended. 'Nuff Said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted June 21, 2002 Did you know that if you hit "Shift" and pressthe "/" button, you can make a question mark, like so... "?" Just wondering... What does this have to do with Piazza vs Clemens? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest King_TIL Report post Posted June 22, 2002 That's bullshit. If you don't like someone leaning over the plate, you brush him back. You don't hit him, and you certainly don't broadcast the fact that you're going to do it. It was premeditated, and Clemens needs to be suspended. 'Nuff Said. If you don't like someone leaning over the plate, you hit him where he is leaning over the plate to send a message. 'Nuff said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shaved Bear Report post Posted June 22, 2002 Shwan Estes is horrible, I mean, only the Mets can miss someone as big as Clemens, with his choking ability you think he would be on the Red Sox --cheap shot, but it had to be said Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted June 22, 2002 "If you don't like someone leaning over the plate, you brush him back. You don't hit him..." The thing is, the way some guys hang over the plate, you can hit them on a ball that is actually a strike. You don't need to throw very far inside to hit someone in the arm anymore. Pitchers have an absolute right to throw over every centimeter of the plate, and they should defend that right by beaning hitters who try to take it away from them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest raptor Report post Posted June 22, 2002 The thing is, the way some guys hang over the plate, you can hit them on a ball that is actually a strike. You don't need to throw very far inside to hit someone in the arm anymore. I agree, but the fact that riles me up is that Clemens said he was going to hit him. It wasn't a strike- it was a premeditated beanball. Clemens wasn't even warned (after making a publicized threat), and THAT, to me, is bullshit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest alfdogg Report post Posted June 22, 2002 Did you know that if you hit "Shift" and pressthe "/" button, you can make a question mark, like so... "?" Just wondering... What does this have to do with Piazza vs Clemens? Nothing. You'd just be a lot more coherant if you used question marks. That's all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
