Austin is GONE for good

[Guest WWF4Life]

", the drawing power of The Rock is questionable, so I don't think he's had that much of an effect."

 

You must be joking.

 

1. Many of the WWE's highest profit PPVs involve the Rock in a major role (WMX8,X7,2000,15,etc.).

 

2. Most of the highest rated RAWs ever involve the Rock, as well as the highest rated segment ever (Rock-Foley).

 

3. Rock sells enormous amounts of merchandise.

 

4. He's made more money for WWE than anyone but possibly Hogan and Austin (they are 1-2-3 in some undetermined order).

 

I can probably come up with several more.

I don't doubt that he was tremendous draw, but since his return last summer, his effect on the box office in wrestling has been minimal. He popped one big rating when he came back, but any momentum was lost. And I credit the buy rate at this years WrestleMania to Hogan more than I do Rocky actually. Let's not forget who he worked with as well...

 

1. Steve Austin - Both of the times they fought at 'Mania, Austin was the main draw.

 

2. Triple H - was the best heel in the business when they feuded in 2000...Hunter should get far more credit in terms of drawing in this period than he does.

 

It's irrelevant anyway, since there's no way to prove any of this without wading through gate receipts etc, and I have better things to do.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"I don't doubt that he was tremendous draw, but since his return last summer, his effect on the box office in wrestling has been minimal. He popped one big rating when he came back, but any momentum was lost"

 

It lasted a lot longer than that for HHH's return, and I don't recall Austin's doing all that well either.

 

"And I credit the buy rate at this years WrestleMania to Hogan more than I do Rocky actually."

 

It should go equally to both. The Rock vs. Hogan match was what sold.

 

"Let's not forget who he worked with as well...

 

1. Steve Austin - Both of the times they fought at 'Mania, Austin was the main draw.

 

2. Triple H - was the best heel in the business when they feuded in 2000...Hunter should get far more credit in terms of drawing in this period than he does."

 

So on one hand, you are saying that the matches drew because top heel Rock was fighting #1 guy Austin, but then saying that top heel HHH drew against #1 guy Rock. And it was the Rock that few in 2000, Rock vs. HHH drew a 2+ br, a 1.6+ br, a 1.4+ br, and a 1+ br. Austin vs. HHH that same year drew a 1 br.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

1. Steve Austin - Both of the times they fought at 'Mania, Austin was the main draw.

And Austin also won. Rocky's jobbed three WMs in a row (finally getting the win on Hogan recently) and briefly jobbed like crazy after WMXV.

 

For a guy who's the Austin and HHH whipping boy, Rocky is pretty damn over. Granted, I think he's more of a showboat who depends on things like mic skills and The People's Elbow to draw a pop. Benoit has pulled spectacular matches out of "lesser" men than he did in his program with Rock.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"Benoit has pulled spectacular matches out of "lesser" men than he did in his program with Rock. "

 

Such as who? Oh, and Rock-Benoit at FL2000 was better than any Angle-Benoit match.

[Guest bcu1979]

I don't doubt that he was tremendous draw, but since his return last summer, his effect on the box office in wrestling has been minimal. He popped one big rating when he came back, but any momentum was lost. And I credit the buy rate at this years WrestleMania to Hogan more than I do Rocky actually. Let's not forget who he worked with as well...

 

1. Steve Austin - Both of the times they fought at 'Mania, Austin was the main draw.

 

2. Triple H - was the best heel in the business when they feuded in 2000...Hunter should get far more credit in terms of drawing in this period than he does.

 

It's irrelevant anyway, since there's no way to prove any of this without wading through gate receipts etc, and I have better things to do.

If Triple H is supposedly equal to Rock in terms of drawing power, why have Smackdown's ratings plummeted since the roster split? Triple H is still there. Hell, he's the star of the show. Vince is still there. Hogan's there. Who's missing?

 

Rock.

 

I also disagree that Austin was the main draw in the 2001 WM main event. The fans were hyped because it was AUSTIN-ROCK. They wanted to see the top 2 stars go at it. You can't maufacture electricity and the electricity was there for months leading up to the show anytime Austin and Rock faced off.

[Guest WWF4Life]

"It lasted a lot longer than that for HHH's return, and I don't recall Austin's doing all that well either."

 

Did I say that? I used his return as an example. A return that had the momentum of the WCW/ECW angle when it was at it's creative and drawing height. SummerSlam drew  a drastically lower buy rate than Invasion for an event which was The Rock's return. I seem to remember that Unforgiven and No Mercy both drew impressive buy rates, focused around Austin's return and first match back

 

"It should go equally to both. The Rock vs. Hogan match was what sold."

 

Agreed

 

"So on one hand, you are saying that the matches drew because top heel Rock was fighting #1 guy Austin, but then saying that top heel HHH drew against #1 guy Rock. And it was the Rock that few in 2000, Rock vs. HHH drew a 2+ br, a 1.6+ br, a 1.4+ br, and a 1+ br. Austin vs. HHH that same year drew a 1 br."

 

We've become a bit side-tracked here...I initially meant his drawing power since he came back from filming. You do make a strong point however...personally, I think that in 2000, it was the chemistry between Rock and Hunter that drew the large buy rates. I think the whole issue of drawing is based on the collective talents of those involved in a feud, not one person in general.

 

EDIT>

"If Triple H is supposedly equal to Rock in terms of drawing power, why have Smackdown's ratings plummeted since the roster split? Triple H is still there. Hell, he's the star of the show. Vince is still there. Hogan's there. Who's missing?"

 

I'd hardly say that the SmackDown ratings have plummeted...they were averaging 4.0 before the split, the average since the split is about 3.7. SmackDown peaked this year with Hogan's return, not Rock's presence. So, you think it's the absence of The Rock, and not the quality of the product and opposition on other networks that have caused this 'plummet'??

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"We've become a bit side-tracked here...I initially meant his drawing power since he came back from filming."

 

Oh, well you should have said that from the start, because your original post seemed pretty general. And I'll agree with you there, but only in as much as that since then (i.e. Invasion Angle) no one has really been able to draw, but I would still say the Rock's drawing power has been affected the least. The reason I brought up the HHH return was basically to show that while Rock's return didn't turn things around, everyone else has done worse, which says more about how big returns have been handled than the wrestlers themselves IMO. The Rock (along with Austin) is one of the only guys left who has SOME name power (i.e. can draw fans based on himself not on his angles), since everyone else has basically none, either because it's gone (Hogan, Taker, Flair), or because they never had any (HHH, Jericho, Angle).

[Guest WWF4Life]

You're right, the majority of returns have been handled very poorly. I never said that The Rock didn't have name value, I just said that he hasn't made much difference in the broad scheme of things in WWE recently, and isn't really likely to. He's not at fault, it's just the general state of WWE at the moment...it's difficult to sustain any momentum in terms of drawing.

 

Anyway...back to Austin

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Isn't bad booking the reason Foley left the WWF again? He asked for his release so he didn't have to be tied to the WWF, because they had nothing good for him to do anyway.

 

And they sure gave him a crappy send off, too.

 

I'm pretty sure that Foley is still under contract, but it isn't important anyways.

 

Foley & Vince at least came to an agreement as adults.  That is the way Austin should have left.  Mick would be welcomed back, if he ever wanted to return.

 

But yes, the WWF should certainly try to fix the problem.  Perhaps they are trying, they just don't know how to do it.