Ironic thing about Austin

[Guest Black Tiger]

I was just thinking about when Austin really got over in WWF for the first time. All he really did was call Bret Hart a crybaby. Now look six years later, Austin is the crybaby.

 

Austin more or less got the torch passed to him from HBK (willing to pass it or not, he still did). HBK was known for getting pissed off when he didn't like the booking and refused to do jobs.

 

Its like Austin went full circle and became the very thing he bashed to get himself so popular in the first place.

[Guest]

Thats a very good point. I wouldnt of thought of that and its very ironic. After all austin has done, I didnt expect him to turn in to this, but he did and thats that.

[Guest godthedog]

the wrestling business is filled to the brim with ironies.  unfortunately, not a single one of them can be found in the actual wrestling storylines, because evidently the writers aren't developed enough to get their minds around a high dramatic concept like *irony*.

[Guest]

I noted this before:

 

Bret Hart and the WWF part ways due to conflicts of interest, in quite a nasty way as well. This allows Austin to become the biggest thing ever. While this situation is nowhere near as nasty as Montreal(yet), think about it. Who'll be the next biggest thing ever? I have no idea.

[Guest claydude14]

obviously brock lesnar, he is the next big thing, lilian sez so

[Guest benoitrules2000]

Great point, As this was unfolding and when i heard it was partly over his refusal to job to lesnar I immediately think of this famous interview he did in ecw that's on the deep inpact dvd extras i think where he rips on people like flair and hogan for refusing to allow the next generation to flourish and he became huge over this and now he has made the full transformation into the hogan that all the biggest wrestlers of all time seem to become because they can't handle losing their "Spot"....Sad really.

[Guest Brian]

Were entering another dark age once we sort out the crap. Benoit is this generation's Bret Hart. Angle and Jericho fill the Michaels role (as wrestlers). Brock is our big non-selling giant.

[Guest Anglesault]

Austin didn't refuse to job to brock lesnar. Austin refused to job to Brock lesnar in a meaningless 6 minute match after 45 minutes of build up. HUGE difference there.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Austin didn't refuse to job to brock lesnar. Austin refused to job to Brock lesnar in a meaningless 6 minute match after 45 minutes of build up. HUGE difference there.

You hit the nail on the head, once again Anglesault.  Austin realized (he is a very smart wrestler) that something like Brock Lesnar vs. Steve Austin should be built up for something like Summerslam, Royal Rumble, or Wrestlemania, not some 6-8 minute match at the end of a meaningless Raw.  How can you guys NOT realize why Austin did what he had to do?  The WWE is in the shits right now, and so is his career, so he felt he had to leave.  What would have happened had he stayed?  He would've jobbed to Lesnar, who has barely gotten his feet wet in the WWE, and his career would've plummetted further.  

 

How do people not realize that the worst idea in the history of wrestling was to bring in the nWo??

[Guest Downhome]

Austin didn't refuse to job to brock lesnar. Austin refused to job to Brock lesnar in a meaningless 6 minute match after 45 minutes of build up. HUGE difference there.

You hit the nail on the head, once again Anglesault.  Austin realized (he is a very smart wrestler) that something like Brock Lesnar vs. Steve Austin should be built up for something like Summerslam, Royal Rumble, or Wrestlemania, not some 6-8 minute match at the end of a meaningless Raw.  How can you guys NOT realize why Austin did what he had to do?  The WWE is in the shits right now, and so is his career, so he felt he had to leave.  What would have happened had he stayed?  He would've jobbed to Lesnar, who has barely gotten his feet wet in the WWE, and his career would've plummetted further.  

 

How do people not realize that the worst idea in the history of wrestling was to bring in the nWo??

I hate to break it to you, but I guarentee you that Austin wouldn't have been jobbed out cleanly. More than likely, they were going to have Eddy, Ric, Benoit, Arn, Paul E, and God knows who else to interfere, to make sure Brock won the match. That wouldn't in no way made Austin look out to be less than he is, and it would have made Brock look that much more great...

 

...how is Austin/Brock a PPV match right now? Brock hasn't even had a match, hasn't been built up to be anything more than a jobber killer so far, etc... If Brock had been on a rampage of beating everyone on the roster so far, then yeah, they shouldn't have it on a RAW, but he wasn't. Brock is simply an undercard guy, and that's what this match was for. To further the Austin/Flair angle, and to further the BUILDING UP of Brock Lesnar.

 

After Brock one on RAW, it would have meant something more months down the road when they DID have Austin/Lesnar. At that time, Lesnar would actually mean something to everyone, and it would look that much better for Austin to beat Lesnar at the top of his game, when he couldn't do it when Brock was first starting out.

 

So tell me, how in the hell did Austin have an excuse for what he did? There is no reason whatsoever for him to do what he did, especially when it would have benifitted everyone who was to take part...

 

...Brock, Ric, Benoit, Eddy, and yes, even the crying bitch himself, Austin.

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

[Guest Downhome]

I think the MOST ironic thing is that the very guy that all of this seemingly started with, Scott Hall, Austin is now apparently becoming!

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I hate to break it to you, but I guarentee you that Austin wouldn't have been jobbed out cleanly. More than likely, they were going to have Eddy, Ric, Benoit, Arn, Paul E, and God knows who else to interfere, to make sure Brock won the match. That wouldn't in no way made Austin look out to be less than he is, and it would have made Brock look that much more great...

 

...how is Austin/Brock a PPV match right now? Brock hasn't even had a match, hasn't been built up to be anything more than a jobber killer so far, etc... If Brock had been on a rampage of beating everyone on the roster so far, then yeah, they shouldn't have it on a RAW, but he wasn't. Brock is simply an undercard guy, and that's what this match was for. To further the Austin/Flair angle, and to further the BUILDING UP of Brock Lesnar.

 

After Brock one on RAW, it would have meant something more months down the road when they DID have Austin/Lesnar. At that time, Lesnar would actually mean something to everyone, and it would look that much better for Austin to beat Lesnar at the top of his game, when he couldn't do it when Brock was first starting out.

 

So tell me, how in the hell did Austin have an excuse for what he did? There is no reason whatsoever for him to do what he did, especially when it would have benifitted everyone who was to take part...

 

...Brock, Ric, Benoit, Eddy, and yes, even the crying bitch himself, Austin.

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

Austin shouldn't have faced Lesnar one-on-one at all. The way the match was booked to end is pure speculation (this negating all "Austin refused to job" arguements) but the match itself being booked was a stupid decision. It's bad booking, and it hot-shots a potential money-making program. Lesnar is an undercard guy, and getting a pin over Austin wouldn't work at this stage, because the fans wouldn't buy into it. No matter how much anyone wants to deny it, Brock has fallen into the mold of "Over-pushed big man no one gives a shit about" and until he breaks out of it and becomes something worth pushing, he shouldn't be put in there with big names. If anything, this proves that the WWE has already given up on the Brock experiment, because they're already throwing him in there with Austin as opposed to keeping them seperate so that it can pay off in the future. A Brock win over Austin now means a) tons of interferance that makes both men look meaningless (and further hurting Brock's character which is supposed to be a "monster") or b) Brock getting a clean pin over Austin, which would kill Stone Cold, who, like him or not, was one of the only ratings draws on Raw. Brock has to fix all the problems with his character and find some direction before he can play with the big boys like that. Once he's over and a threat, putting him over Austin is more rational, but now? Forget about it.

 

According to most reports, Austin was against facing him with no build-up, not against facing him at all. If anything, he was encouraging the elevation of Brock, because instead of throwing Austin/Brock away in a meaningless Raw match, it could be done on PPV and possibly draw some money. There was money in Austin/Brock, if done right, but instead they wanted to use it to build up the latest "Austin Vs. Evil Promoter" storyline which DOES NOT draw money anymore. I'm not trying to justify Austin's actions, but I don't get how anyone can defend the planned Austin/Lesnar match as good booking.

[Guest Downhome]

I hate to break it to you, but I guarentee you that Austin wouldn't have been jobbed out cleanly. More than likely, they were going to have Eddy, Ric, Benoit, Arn, Paul E, and God knows who else to interfere, to make sure Brock won the match. That wouldn't in no way made Austin look out to be less than he is, and it would have made Brock look that much more great...

 

...how is Austin/Brock a PPV match right now? Brock hasn't even had a match, hasn't been built up to be anything more than a jobber killer so far, etc... If Brock had been on a rampage of beating everyone on the roster so far, then yeah, they shouldn't have it on a RAW, but he wasn't. Brock is simply an undercard guy, and that's what this match was for. To further the Austin/Flair angle, and to further the BUILDING UP of Brock Lesnar.

 

After Brock one on RAW, it would have meant something more months down the road when they DID have Austin/Lesnar. At that time, Lesnar would actually mean something to everyone, and it would look that much better for Austin to beat Lesnar at the top of his game, when he couldn't do it when Brock was first starting out.

 

So tell me, how in the hell did Austin have an excuse for what he did? There is no reason whatsoever for him to do what he did, especially when it would have benifitted everyone who was to take part...

 

...Brock, Ric, Benoit, Eddy, and yes, even the crying bitch himself, Austin.

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

Austin shouldn't have faced Lesnar one-on-one at all. The way the match was booked to end is pure speculation (this negating all "Austin refused to job" arguements) but the match itself being booked was a stupid decision. It's bad booking, and it hot-shots a potential money-making program. Lesnar is an undercard guy, and getting a pin over Austin wouldn't work at this stage, because the fans wouldn't buy into it. No matter how much anyone wants to deny it, Brock has fallen into the mold of "Over-pushed big man no one gives a shit about" and until he breaks out of it and becomes something worth pushing, he shouldn't be put in there with big names. If anything, this proves that the WWE has already given up on the Brock experiment, because they're already throwing him in there with Austin as opposed to keeping them seperate so that it can pay off in the future. A Brock win over Austin now means a) tons of interferance that makes both men look meaningless (and further hurting Brock's character which is supposed to be a "monster") or b) Brock getting a clean pin over Austin, which would kill Stone Cold, who, like him or not, was one of the only ratings draws on Raw. Brock has to fix all the problems with his character and find some direction before he can play with the big boys like that. Once he's over and a threat, putting him over Austin is more rational, but now? Forget about it.

 

According to most reports, Austin was against facing him with no build-up, not against facing him at all. If anything, he was encouraging the elevation of Brock, because instead of throwing Austin/Brock away in a meaningless Raw match, it could be done on PPV and possibly draw some money. There was money in Austin/Brock, if done right, but instead they wanted to use it to build up the latest "Austin Vs. Evil Promoter" storyline which DOES NOT draw money anymore. I'm not trying to justify Austin's actions, but I don't get how anyone can defend the planned Austin/Lesnar match as good booking.

Because I can understand why WWE was going with that, and if they did it the right way, it COULD have been benificial to all involved. It would have been killing two birds with one stone. I mean, seriously...

 

...not too much makes sense in WWE, and that match would just be another one of the "forgotten bouts" that did nothing except further an angle. It wouldn't have taken place for the match, but rather, the seperate angles involving both of the participants.

[Guest Brian]

I still fail to see how that match does anything for Brock. I mean, if someone interferes all the heat goes on them and Austin and Brock's win is forgotten just as nobody really cares for all his other wins he's had to interfere by. They've dropped the ball with him and you don't go about fixing that by immediately jobbing your biggest draw and star out to him with very little build or hype, or even any background. You give him the win, you do it to help Brock and not the angles. But you do it when he's ready.

[Guest Downhome]

I still fail to see how that match does anything for Brock. I mean, if someone interferes all the heat goes on them and Austin and Brock's win is forgotten just as nobody really cares for all his other wins he's had to interfere by. They've dropped the ball with him and you don't go about fixing that by immediately jobbing your biggest draw and star out to him with very little build or hype, or even any background. You give him the win, you do it to help Brock and not the angles. But you do it when he's ready.

I suppose I'm the only one who sees what could have been a good thing in that match. Brock winning, even with help, makes him look that much more of a threat. I mean, regardless of HOW he wins, it's f*cking Stone Cold Steve Austin. Then on the other side, it doesn't hurt Austin whatsoever to take the loss. All it would have done is further both guys and the programs they were involved in...

 

...then down the road, when Austin Vs. Brock happens, once Austin is back on the top, and Brock finally actually truly means something, they could have built it up around the face that Brock defeated Austin near the begining of his career, and say that this is the guy that Austin hasn't defeated yet. There, you have the unstopable monster Vs. the mega baby face. Later when they do an actual feud between the two, they could have Lesnar destroy Austin outsitde the ring, and build up that Lesnar has one victory over him already. Make it look like Austin has finally met his match and whatnot. I don't know, I just think they could have done a lot both short term and long term by having that match on RAW.

[Guest]

I still fail to see how that match does anything for Brock. I mean, if someone interferes all the heat goes on them and Austin and Brock's win is forgotten just as nobody really cares for all his other wins he's had to interfere by. They've dropped the ball with him and you don't go about fixing that by immediately jobbing your biggest draw and star out to him with very little build or hype, or even any background. You give him the win, you do it to help Brock and not the angles. But you do it when he's ready.

I guess it could've helped his image of being an unstoppable monster because Austin would've been the first actual main eventer that Brock would've beaten, other than the midcard hardcore division guys he's been running over

 

BUT

 

Remember when Rock jobbed to Rhyno? It seems like that was such a big deal... for that show. Then it was forgotten

[Guest Brian]

But that's the problem. He's lost that edge as the unstoppable monster and he won't get it back again. The minute he started selling for the Hardys and getting pinned by the Hardys and having Heyman intereferes in his match, he lost that edge. The thing is in the short term victories where someone intereferes get swallowed up in the gist of things and not remembered, so that's why they have to build up those kind of wins and/or matches. Like Austin said, creative sucks.

[Guest Downhome]

Like Austin said, creative sucks.

That, I can agree with. Hell, even Vince himself basicly said their creative team sucks, which brings me to my next point...

 

...if Vince HIMSELF realizes that the writing team and their material suck, then why in the hell does he not just do somethng about it? I mean, ummm, he is the OWNER after all isn't he, if anyone could change things isn't it HIM out of everyone else?

[Guest Brian]

Because his daughter's in charge.

[Guest WWF4Life]

His daughter is in charge, but Vince has the power to overrule any decisions the writers make. For all we know, Steph could have booked the perfect month of TV, but Vince changed it because he didn't like it. When he was being courted at the beginning of 2001, Paul Heyman said it best...

 

"Vince is the only head-booker of the WWF."

[Guest Brian]

Perfect being 100% Triple H TV.

[Guest]

I was just thinking about when Austin really got over in WWF for the first time. All he really did was call Bret Hart a crybaby. Now look six years later, Austin is the crybaby.

You know, I always thought that Austin the character came of as a bit of a crybaby when he would hold shows hostage and beat up random people (tantrum!) after being "screwed" by Vince McMahon et al in that feud.

 

Part of this I've always thought was me judging him hard as a mark, because he called Bret Hart a crybaby and got Bret Hart labelled a crybaby for less of an offense.

 

So I always thought it would be a great "come full-circle" angle to have somebody come out and call Austin on it, and label his character a crybaby and so on, and basically redo the old Austin/Hart feud only with Austin as the old veteran who can't change and eventually becomes the crybaby (but still very tough and dangerous) heel to the hot young brash up and coming bad ass face [who was always Benoit in my fantasy booking].

 

Now it looks like we'll never get the chance to see that.  Unfortunately.  Because I would have loved to see it.