Chris Benoit Dead - Toxicology results released

[UZI Suicide 0]

And all the nerds rejoice. More guys dying young. How fun.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

You're right Douchebag! I can't believe a wrestler took steroids. I am shocked, appalled and I feel like my hero let me down

 

I know you'd feel that way if it was Regal instead!

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

The NFL is infested with steroid mutants no one is crying bloody murder.

 

Because nobody is getting murdered?

[Bix 0]

so what would you say to a drug testing policy where guys just pay for shit that doesn't show up?

 

The NFL is infested with steroid mutants no one is crying bloody murder.

What type of idiotic strawman argument is that?

 

Do you just expect the NFL to magically invent a test that can detect The Clear? It took DECADES to develop a test for HGH, and all they have so far is a blood test that only detects it immediately after the subject has injected it.

[bob_barron 0]

You're right Douchebag! I can't believe a wrestler took steroids. I am shocked, appalled and I feel like my hero let me down

 

I know you'd feel that way if it was Regal instead!

 

Regal was a huge drug addict who once went to jail for pissing on a flight attendant.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I won't get into arguments with the retards in this forum but let me say this; nandrolone levels in a person should be anywhere from 2 to 6 mg. Most of the people here would probably test around a 2, because those are normal levels for a person that does no physical activity, or very little. For a person that does strenuous physical activity, like after say an intense match/fight, would be around a 6, because the physical work that you do tends to increase the levels in your system. Therefore, the limit for anyone with no illegal supplements should be a 6. This is why athletic commissions like the CSAC or the NSAC give out a positive test to anyone who tests above a 6, as it isn't normal, regardless of how much exercise you do to have a level above this. This is the limit.

 

The WWE Wellness policy allows a limit of TEN. That means that they are basically allowing you to take steroids to almost double your levels of nandrolone. They are actively allowing guys to juice by raising the limits far above what they should be. How in the hell can you expect me to believe that they aren't actively promoting steroid use when they are allowing guys to take steroids? In fact, the only they should worry about when testing comes around is to lower their dosage. All the people harping about Benoit's negative test should realize it was performed with different standards than any reputable testing agency. If you inflate your test limits to almost double the regular limit, then yeah, I guess he was clean, but if we double the legal blood alcohol limit, I guess I can take a few shots and drive home with driving drunk right?

[haVoc 0]

Okay, am I the only one here who doesn't know who the fuck Pete Doyle is??

 

He played Frank Barone on Everybody Loves Raymond.

 

[dubq 0]

That would be Peter Boyle, actually.

[Mecca 0]

so what would you say to a drug testing policy where guys just pay for shit that doesn't show up?

 

The NFL is infested with steroid mutants no one is crying bloody murder.

What type of idiotic strawman argument is that?

 

Do you just expect the NFL to magically invent a test that can detect The Clear? It took DECADES to develop a test for HGH, and all they have so far is a blood test that only detects it immediately after the subject has injected it.

 

It's the argument that if someone really wants to do steroids...they will and they will get away with. Even with stringent testing if a guy really wants to use steroids and not get caught doing it, he will.

 

Only morons like Shawne Merriman get caught.....the WWE can implement a drug policy on par with the NFL's if they want but guys will still find ways to beat it just as NFL players do. There's a hell of alot more than just steroids as to why guys are dropping dead and I don't see the WWE giving guys an offseason or drastically reducing dates to help with this.....

[Bix 0]

Since not everyone in WWE can afford HGH (and I'm sure nobody's doing The Clear), it would catch A LOT more guys than it is now.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

so what would you say to a drug testing policy where guys just pay for shit that doesn't show up?

 

The NFL is infested with steroid mutants no one is crying bloody murder.

What type of idiotic strawman argument is that?

 

Do you just expect the NFL to magically invent a test that can detect The Clear? It took DECADES to develop a test for HGH, and all they have so far is a blood test that only detects it immediately after the subject has injected it.

 

It's the argument that if someone really wants to do steroids...they will and they will get away with. Even with stringent testing if a guy really wants to use steroids and not get caught doing it, he will.

 

Only morons like Shawne Merriman get caught.....the WWE can implement a drug policy on par with the NFL's if they want but guys will still find ways to beat it just as NFL players do. There's a hell of alot more than just steroids as to why guys are dropping dead and I don't see the WWE giving guys an offseason or drastically reducing dates to help with this.....

 

Did you even see my post? I'd like to see you respond to it.

 

Also, your comment implies that we should not have testing at all, since anyone can get around it and therefore it doesn't prove to be of any use. Do you not see why people might not take you seriously? Also, how do you not see why an offseason would help? As stated earlier the Japanese style of wrestling is much more demanding on a person's body, but the reason why they're not dropping dead is because of the time off. Dynamite Kid for one mentions in his book how that made his life alot easier while wrestling there, even though his matches with Sayama were pretty daredevil, at least for their time. Not nearly as many Puro guys roid up either, as you can tell by their looks, if nothing else.

 

You come as a huge hypocrite criticizing the media for bashing pro wrestling than saying the NFL is full of "steroid mutants". I'm sorry, but in the NFL guys don't take steroids nearly as much as you think, and the testing, contrary to whatever you may believe, is actually pretty stringent and relatively effective. Finally, they're all world class athletes. Are there some great athletes in the WWE? Sure. But if you had to ask me which org., the NFL or the WWE, had a higher proportion of steroid mutants, I'd have to say the WWE and their fill of a bunch of sluggish brick shithouses beats out the NFL any day of the week.

[Downhome 0]

Well, John Kronus just made FOX News. They were even talking about The Eliminator's finishing move for some reason.

[Nate 0]

regardless of how strict any drug testing would be NFL or WWE there will always be some sort of loophole to get out of being fired or suspended, rather thats some sort of supplement that would mask the steroid or other drug, and the favortisim has to stop as well, ok say Cena tested positive for a steroid do you think for one second Vince would suspend him

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Nate you have to word that better, that's hideous.

[Jingus 0]

Masking agents can be detected. It's only the cheap tests that'll be fooled by that.

 

In response to justcoz, we don't know if the tests are random or not. That's because the WWE is so damned secretive about the whole process and refuses to discuss anything about it with the public. Why do you think they tell us that Benoit passed his April screening, but won't tell us exactly what his testosterone levels were? Or what the results of any of his OTHER drug tests were?

 

 

Between a drug testing policy that's not hard to fool and an obvious reliance on big guys with ridonkulous big muscular bodies, the WWE sends a pretty clear signal that using hormone supplements is A-OK.

[justcoz 0]

so what would you say to a drug testing policy where guys just pay for shit that doesn't show up?

 

The NFL is infested with steroid mutants no one is crying bloody murder.

What type of idiotic strawman argument is that?

 

Do you just expect the NFL to magically invent a test that can detect The Clear? It took DECADES to develop a test for HGH, and all they have so far is a blood test that only detects it immediately after the subject has injected it.

 

It's the argument that if someone really wants to do steroids...they will and they will get away with. Even with stringent testing if a guy really wants to use steroids and not get caught doing it, he will.

 

Only morons like Shawne Merriman get caught.....the WWE can implement a drug policy on par with the NFL's if they want but guys will still find ways to beat it just as NFL players do. There's a hell of alot more than just steroids as to why guys are dropping dead and I don't see the WWE giving guys an offseason or drastically reducing dates to help with this.....

 

Did you even see my post? I'd like to see you respond to it.

 

Also, your comment implies that we should not have testing at all, since anyone can get around it and therefore it doesn't prove to be of any use. Do you not see why people might not take you seriously? Also, how do you not see why an offseason would help? As stated earlier the Japanese style of wrestling is much more demanding on a person's body, but the reason why they're not dropping dead is because of the time off. Dynamite Kid for one mentions in his book how that made his life alot easier while wrestling there, even though his matches with Sayama were pretty daredevil, at least for their time. Not nearly as many Puro guys roid up either, as you can tell by their looks, if nothing else.

 

You come as a huge hypocrite criticizing the media for bashing pro wrestling than saying the NFL is full of "steroid mutants". I'm sorry, but in the NFL guys don't take steroids nearly as much as you think, and the testing, contrary to whatever you may believe, is actually pretty stringent and relatively effective. Finally, they're all world class athletes. Are there some great athletes in the WWE? Sure. But if you had to ask me which org., the NFL or the WWE, had a higher proportion of steroid mutants, I'd have to say the WWE and their fill of a bunch of sluggish brick shithouses beats out the NFL any day of the week.

 

I'll respond to your post. There is no doubt that the testing turned a blind eye to guys on the juice. Vince likes big guys. Vince is on roids himself. God, if you have WWE 24/7, watch the Dusty Rhodes vs. Superstar Billy Graham match from 1978. Vince is practically having an orgasm over the size of Billy Graham's arms. They announced the Wellness Policy after the death of Eddie Guerrerro partly because they were expecting media scrutiny. Bodies visibly shrunk, just like they are shrninking right now, you see noticeable differences in Snitsky and Lashley already. By the time the testing was implemented in Feb. of 2006 there was no media attention on Eddie or wrestler deaths and bodies got big again, probably because of the levels the testing allowed. My guess is there was a denial from the company that attributed Eddie's death to his abuse of pain killers and prescription medication more so than steroids. And being that they had scares with talent from Regal to HBK to Sean Waltman to Eugene monitoring those prescription meds and hard recreational drug use was probably Dr. Black's biggest concern. They wanted to know who was prescribing these guys pain medication and what for.

 

They likely wanted to monitor the steroid useage - possibly make suggestions to get numbers down when the situation called on it - but there was likely never any intent to be steroid free. The figured they had the excuse that these guys are being prescribed steroids for legitimate reasons ranging from surgery recovery to therapy for low testosterone levels due to years of steroid abuse. So the policy was more or less built on POLICING the steroids and the pain killer uses than banning their use all together like the Olympics, NFL, NHL and whatever other legitimate sport people want to compare them to.

 

Where I take exception to some of the people here and even Meltzer and Keller to a certain degree is that WWE makes people take steroids. You yourself said that they promote steroid use. There is a difference between promoting and making people do something. It is ultimately up to the individual as to whether they want to take steroids and there is likely a vanity aspect or a male ego aspect where they want to be as big as whoever else in the locker room or they feel that they will make more money by roiding up. Guys like Edge and Shawn Michaels reached a point in their careers where they made a decision to not be bulked and roided up and it wasn't like WWE sent them down to midcard or jobbed them out because their bodies weren't big. Eddie and Chris would have had that same level of respect for their work ethic where I doubt the company would care about the size of their muscles. Are the Hardys not given television time because they aren't roided up?

 

I also disagree with your assessment of the WWE and their fill of sluggish brick shit houses. I mean, you dismiss other sports for roids and growth hormone, and in fairness, we really don't see NFL guys not padded up so you pretty much have to trust their testing to say nobody is roided up or on growth hormone. And I really do believe a vast majority of the WWE locker room aren't jacked up. The problem comes when the guys that are the most jacked up get the biggest pushes.

 

And also, in regards to time off helping, I'd be for cycling tours but Dynamite Kid was comparing 80's WWF to Japan and they had way more scheduled dates and grueling travel back in the 80's. WWE did lighten the schedule. I think I read where Chris Benoit was going to work about 140 dates and let's also not forget that he had four months AT HOME when Nancy had her surgery and this still happened. You almost have to wonder if it would have been better for the Benoit family if he was on the road and doing what he loved.

[justcoz 0]

Masking agents can be detected. It's only the cheap tests that'll be fooled by that.

 

In response to justcoz, we don't know if the tests are random or not. That's because the WWE is so damned secretive about the whole process and refuses to discuss anything about it with the public. Why do you think they tell us that Benoit passed his April screening, but won't tell us exactly what his testosterone levels were? Or what the results of any of his OTHER drug tests were?

 

 

Between a drug testing policy that's not hard to fool and an obvious reliance on big guys with ridonkulous big muscular bodies, the WWE sends a pretty clear signal that using hormone supplements is A-OK.

 

WWE guys have been quoted, even prior to the Benoit thing, that testing is random and you show up, the agents call you to the side and you are tested without a warning that it's coming.

 

I agree that they are secretive about Benoit's last screening and prior testing. I don't like that either but I'm assuming that it's for legal reasons and their concern about a wrongful death lawsuit. If his levels were on the high end and they consulted his physician who gave them the "I prescribed it because his level was low and it's effecting him physically, sexually, whatever" and Benoit got through on the legitimate prescription loophole, maybe with them telling him to get the ratio down for the next testing they are setting themselves up for contributing to the "ROID RAGE" theory. Like Dr. Black stated in interviews this testing was designed to change lifestyles more than anything. Dr. Astin prescribed Benoit the testosterone, publicly stated the reason and that is all that showed up in his toxicology. Had there been other anabolic steroids in his system this would have been a bigger mess but he had a prescription, just like their policy states, whether we agree with that loophole or not, and they aren't going to give any more info.

[Jingus 0]

Like Dr. Black stated in interviews this testing was designed to change lifestyles more than anything.

After Dr. Black sat quietly while McDevitt made the ludicrous and erroneous claim that testosterone isn't a steroid, I don't trust anything he has to say.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Aah yes, WWE's WEllness Policy...... the steroid test where you can actually take steroids, take more than people who failed MLB steroid tests.... and still pass because the tolerances are so high

[justcoz 0]

Like Dr. Black stated in interviews this testing was designed to change lifestyles more than anything.

After Dr. Black sat quietly while McDevitt made the ludicrous and erroneous claim that testosterone isn't a steroid, I don't trust anything he has to say.

 

Because they are trying to sell the general public that testosterone has prescription uses for testosterone replacement and isn't the same as the other anabolic steroids used for bodybuilding purposes. The medical examiner said the same exact thing at his conference and McDevitt's was hell bent on selling the medical examiner's opinions as the gospel. Also, be realistic, the doctor wasn't going to interrupt the company attorney and correct him that testosterone is a steroid.

 

[justcoz 0]

Aah yes, WWE's WEllness Policy...... the steroid test where you can actually take steroids, take more than people who failed MLB steroid tests.... and still pass because the tolerances are so high

 

Ah yes, the wrestling industry, where you can get fired from the leading company for failing the steroid/drug test, and still make a killing working indie dates, ROH, maybe get a TNA contract or wrestle overseas, regardless of whether you cleaned up your act or not. What do they care? If you die it's Vince McMahon's fault regardless.

[Jingus 0]

1. Yes, testosterone and other steroids have completely legitimate medical uses. But from the sheer amount that Benoit was taking, he obviously wasn't using it for that.

 

2. Funny how none of the top guys ever get fired for this sort of thing. It's always some meaningless undercard dude. Except for Angle, and that's because he was apparently a walking zombie at times from all the shit he was on.

 

3. In an interview, Dr. Black claimed that NOBODY had been fired for pissing dirty. Test and Joey Mercury might take issue with that.

[justcoz 0]

1. Yes, testosterone and other steroids have completely legitimate medical uses. But from the sheer amount that Benoit was taking, he obviously wasn't using it for that.

 

2. Funny how none of the top guys ever get fired for this sort of thing. It's always some meaningless undercard dude. Except for Angle, and that's because he was apparently a walking zombie at times from all the shit he was on.

 

3. In an interview, Dr. Black claimed that NOBODY had been fired for pissing dirty. Test and Joey Mercury might take issue with that.

 

For all we know Chris Benoit could have be a sex fiend who lost his mojo from steroid abuse, was ridiculed by his wife for not being able to get it up, couldn't get it up for any groupies or hookers on the road and was in a deep depression because of it so he took more and more testosterone. I know, he was doing it to bulk up and be able to wrestle at a certain level every night, but I'm just saying. We don't know. My friend Ed takes testosterone partly because he's a bodybuilder but also because he's a sex addict who has slept with 100+ women and he says the stuff gives him better erections and he can last longer.

 

They only tested for one year prior to this. People tend to forget that. They released Angle and Test who were both top guys within their brand. Joey Mercury was just coming off those great Hardys/MNM matches. Randy Orton was disciplined but not released because they don't care about marijuana in the test - they just don't want you walking around openly backstage smoking it. Their top guys for much of the year were HBK (no longer on roids and supposedly clean), Edge (no longer on roids and said to be clean of everything else), HHH (came off roids, got fat and ridiculed on the Internet because of it), Ken Kennedy (appears to no longer be on roids), Undertaker (probably did them throughout his career but is also leaner and more cut, not bulky these days) and John Cena and Lashley - who most of us would speculate are on something but we don't know.

 

 

 

[Bix 0]

DIFFERENT STEROIDS DO DIFFERENT THINGS AND DON'T ALL MAKE YOU BULKY.

 

Undertaker's skull has grown eerily and he mysteriously developed 6 pack abs at 42 years old on the road to Wrestlemania while working his roughest schedule in years. How do you explain that?

 

Also, Kurt Angle, for all of his problems, never failed a drug test for excessive painkillers. His failure was for the steroid decadurabolin. His prescription had expired, so he failed the test.

 

Plus, y'know, Benoit was prescribed TEN MONTHS' WORTH OF TESTOSTERONE EVERY THREE TO FOUR WEEKS. PAY ATTENTION FOR CHRISSAKES.

[bob_barron 0]

I thought Test quit.

[Bix 0]

No, he failed steroid tests and only had internet prescriptions.

[cabbageboy 0]

Hold up, I thought Benoit was being prescribed 10 months worth of steroids every 3 weeks, as in the stuff they found at his house...not necessarily 10 months worth of only the testosterone.

 

The thing is with Benoit, we don't know when exactly he used all this testosterone. He may well have used it all up that very weekend.

[Bix 0]

It was all testosterone cypionate.

 

Also, no, he was getting 10 months' worth every 3-4 weeks FOR A YEAR.

[Jingus 0]

Hold up, I thought Benoit was being prescribed 10 months worth of steroids every 3 weeks, as in the stuff they found at his house...not necessarily 10 months worth of only the testosterone.

Exactly. 10 months of steroids... every 3 weeks... for a YEAR, and that was just from Dr. Astin. Remember, Benoit was also named as a buyer from illegal online roid distributors who got shut down by the feds. There's no way on god's green earth Benoit was taking all that just for hormone replacement therapy. That's just a desperate lie from Astin and the WWE to try and keep the heat off them.

[Jingus 0]

I just don't understand why a few people like justcoz keep defending the company. The WWE has clearly shone that they only care about their employees health AFTER something bad happens... and as soon as nobody's paying attention, they go right back to not caring. They never had drug tests until 1992 when the federal steroid investigation forced them to implement them. And then in 1996, incredibly, they GOT RID OF THEM. "Well, ratings are way down and we've got a thin roster... let's cut the drug tests!" And they never had more tests until Eddie's death once again got the public's eye on them, and pretty much forced them into doing so. And now the tests are a proven failure, because how can a guy who's real levels are 59/1, way way above the company's already-inflated "fail ratio" of 10/1, still pass the tests? If the company doesn't want steroid abuse, why the fuck do they push Lashley, who couldn't possibly get a body like that naturally?