No Country for Old Men

[cabbageboy 0]

Man, I've been waiting for this to come out here but once it finally arrived it's on at 3 theaters and none are particularly close to me. One is way too far to mess with (Tinseltown), one I usually don't go to all that much (Baxter Ave.) and then there's Stonybrook (which I detest but sometimes go to). In fact I did go to Stonybrook this week to see an IMAX 3D version of Beowulf and noticed No Country was on there.

[Epic Reine 0]

Very good movie. The ending was kind of wierd and abrupt but Javier Bardem kicked ass and Josh Brolin impressed the hell out of me too. The scene towards the beginning with Anton talking to the guy at the gas station was intense.

[vivalaultra 0]

Yeah, all the actors were just about perfect in their roles. I also liked how faithful the dialogue was to McCarthy's prose. Even when they deviated from the actual words in the book, it sounded like something from the book. One thing I do wonder about the book/movie, which I might have missed:

 

In the book, Chigurh returns the money gotten from Moss to its rightful owner taking nothing but expenses. I thought that was an important character moment in the book. If I'm not mistaken, that wasn't in the movie, correct?

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

There's the implication that Chigurh keeps the money. At the scene of the car accident, Chigurh gives the kid a bloody hundred dollar bill, which suggests that he has the cash.

 

I was discussing this with a friend of mine, who argued that Chigurh may've just carried his own cash on him. However, consider that earlier in the movie Moss gave the college students at the border a bloody hundred in exchange for a shirt. Moss definitely had the money then, so, having Chigurh repeat that bit of business later says to me that he definitely kept the money.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

And man, Bell's speech at the end is pitch perfect; it made absolute sense that the film cut to black immediately afterwards. The speech, like so much of the dialogue in the film, is taken verbatim (or close enough) from the novel:

 

I had two dreams about him after he died. I dont remember the first one all that well but it was about meetin him in town somewheres and he give me some money and I think I lost it. But the second one was like we was both back in older times and I was on horseback goin through the mountains of a night. Goin through this pass in the mountains. It was cold and there was snow on the ground and he rode past me and kept goin on. Never said nothin. He just rode on past and he had this blanket wrapped around him and he had his head down and when he rode past I seen he was carryin fire in a horn the way people used to do and I could see the horn from the light inside of it. About the color of the moon. And in the dream I knew that he was goin on ahead and that he was fixin to make a fire somewhere out there in all that dark and all that cold and I knew that whenever I got there he would be there. And then I woke up.

[devo 0]

Saw it tonight and loved it. Even though essentially everything about the film was terrific, I have to give special compliments to the cinematographer. It's clear he labored over each and every shot to make the imagery as effective as possible - I didn't even mind the film moving slowly in the beginning since I was spending a lot of that time marveling at the breathtaking shots of the Texas landscape.

 

Couple of things, though...I was really surprised when

Llewelyn ended up dead, not only because I was anticipating a final showdown between him and Anton, but because he ended up being killed by the Mexicans and we didn't even see his final moments. I suppose I should have seen it coming when his last scene ended with the screen uncharacteristically fading to black, but still, a shock and a somewhat disappointing one at that.

 

Somewhat related to that was the scene with the sheriff returning to the motel in El Paso and seeing the lock blown off of the door. There was a shot of Anton crouched in the dark, apparently behind that door, leading the audience to believe that the sheriff was going to bust in there and initiate the final firefight. He enters the room, doesn't find Anton there, sits on the bed, and...that's it. It's never revealed where Anton actually was, and unfortunately all that little shot did was make the scene confusing and much less effective.

And what was with Carla Jean's mother? She almost seemed like the kind of old woman Tyler Perry plays in his shitty movies. Completely over the top and more of a distraction than anything else.

 

Also, despite the evidence to the contrary,

I'd like to think that Anton didn't kill Carla Jean, since over the course of the film, he never took an action unless he had something to gain from it (disregarding the guy in the gas station near the beginning - it's not clear, but I imagine Anton would have killed him had he said "tails"). Even though he gave Llewelyn his word that he'd kill Carla Jean, he seemed to be genuinely conflicted by the answers she was giving him. It was as though Anton realized that he had effectively taken Carla Jean's life away from her and that killing her would almost be superfluous.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

devo:

 

I don't think Anton reconsidered or realized anything when Carla Jean refused to take the coinflip. He wasn't conflicted so much as confused/frustrated/irate at a momentary loss of control. Wanting Anton to let her live out of some revelation that he'd done enough to her is the same sort of impulse that had you disappointed at Llewellyn's sudden death and the lack of any "final firefight." Change any of those and the film is a much lesser work, trading in its brutal depictions of people who aren't smart and aren't courageous--they just

are what they are--for "heroes" or hackneyed remorseful villains.

 

That said, I'm glad you still loved the movie despite feeling uneasy/a little turned around at those parts. I've read way too many commentaries from people who decide to hate the whole thing because it fucked with their expectations.

 

This movie is so good that it ruined other movies for me for a while. I've seen 4-5 movies since, on TV or in theaters, and I just can't find myself too compelled by them, even if I know they're really good by all objective standards.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Finally saw it today, and my GOD what a movie. Easily my #1 choice for the year. The

sigh Chigurh gives out after the cop stops thrashing about

near the beginning is a fantastic little character moment. And the monologues that bookend the movie have made me love Tommy Lee Jones. I've been a fan for a while, and I knew he was a damn good actor before this movie, but I've never seen him THIS good. Josh Brolin- who between this, American Gangster, and Grindhouse is having a breakout year- was really good as well. And the fact that both Brolin and Jones, good as they were, weren't nearly as great as Bardem was is crazy. Chigurh is probably my favorite villain I've seen in a good long while. Top 5 at least.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

He's close for me.

 

1. Rev. Harry Powell

2. Hans Gruber

3. Francis Urquhart

4. Palpatine

5. Keyser Soze

6. Chigurh

 

I didn't hate him as much as Bernie in Miller's Crossing, but he was scary as hell.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Oh, if we're talking all-time villains, then he wouldn't be top five. I just meant of the past, say, ten or so years.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'd actually say Mitchum's best villain role was in Cape Fear. He goes out like kind of a wuss in Night of the Hunter, but I've never cared for the ending of that movie at all.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Man, I've been waiting for this to come out here but once it finally arrived it's on at 3 theaters and none are particularly close to me. One is way too far to mess with (Tinseltown), one I usually don't go to all that much (Baxter Ave.) and then there's Stonybrook (which I detest but sometimes go to). In fact I did go to Stonybrook this week to see an IMAX 3D version of Beowulf and noticed No Country was on there.

 

Wow, never noticed you were from you Louisville. We prefer Baxter Ave., not only is it walking distance from our house it is a nice little theater with good crowds. Yeah, Stonybrook sucks and their goofy lounge makeover doesn't help; we go there when we get gift cards but otherwise try to avoid it. Never been to Tinseltown as it seems to be too far for everyone. Though it may be nostaglia, I actually miss Showcase on Bardstown.

 

Anyway, great movie. The tension of the Llewellyn/Anton scenes was incredible, and Jones was as about as world weary as you can get.

[cabbageboy 0]

Cool, didn't realize you were from Louisville either, Coffin. Allow me to share your nostalgia for the old Showcase on Bardstown Rd. I heard it is going to reopen as a center run by some crooked evangelist or something. It's funny but I don't know of anyone who doesn't think Stonybrook sucks. What sucks is that for the past decade the Showcase people have pushed that theater like it is the main theater in town (which frankly led to the demise of the beloved old Showcase). Now they are screwing the Preston Hwy. Showcase over in favor of Stonybrook.

 

I go to Baxter Ave. occasionally but it has to be some sort of rare revival showing. Like King Kong, Casablanca, Big Sleep.

 

At any rate I see that No Country For Old Men is now on at the Showcase 16, which is much closer. So I'll be back with thoughts on it probably Sunday.

[cabbageboy 0]

Okay I saw the movie today and in a lot of was what I expected. Namely 100 mins. of coolness followed by a last 20 minutest that pretty much sucked. After the final Tommy Lee speech and it fades to black I swear about a dozen people were audibly saying "What the fuck was THAT?" or maybe "Man, that was so good until that ending..." This wasn't one or two people, but a lot of pissed off people.

 

Here's some thoughts:

--Okay, some have badmouthed Moss dying the way he did. I don't have a huge problem with that, though it might have been nice to see it go down. But having a main character just get killed is a cool plot device.

 

--The ending seems like it is almost too faithful to the book. There has to be something they could have done to make it more cinematic. I personally would have had no one get the money at the end (have it all fly off a cliff and we see it scatter, or maybe it gets blown in the wind on a dusty road). In fact given that Chigurh limps away and doesn't seem to have it on him makes me wonder if he had to leave it in the car after the crash, etc. In fact that bit someone mentioned from the book where he turned it back in, that definitely needed to be there.

 

--An aspect of the ending not really mentioned is this. Jones' character came off like such an ineffectual douche the way it went down. He doesn't help Moss, he doesn't find the money, he doesn't find Anton. He might as well retire cause he wasn't worth a shit as a lawman.

 

--Chigurh was frankly a total pussy. Yes, that's right. He's a real badass when he just kills totally unsuspecting victims (even some who are helping him!). Or when he can pearl harbor someone with a sneak attack. But he couldn't do much with Moss once Moss knew he was coming, and he also hid like a bitch from an actual armed sheriff.

 

--Moss was the character who worked for me. Completely noir tragic hero. He fucks up, even knows it himself, and there's always a sense that he's doomed. If Chigurh doesn't get him, the Mexicans will.

 

I have to pose the question. For anyone who hadn't read the book, is THIS really the way you thought it was going to end?

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

cabbageboy:

No, it wasn't the way I thought it was going to end, even though it seemed inevitable that Llewellyn wouldn't "win" from the moment he was out in the desert and saw the second truck silhouetted on the ridge. This was one of few movies with a plot that really and truly kept me off-balance and did in a completely logical, appropriate, and chilling way. I loved it.

 

I think your second comment about making it "more cinematic" is the exact kind of silly bullshit that would have been tacked on to a lesser film. Really glad it didn't go down that way.

 

It's been a month since I've seen it and this is even moreso the best movie of the year.

[Giuseppe Zangara 0]

Here's some thoughts:

--An aspect of the ending not really mentioned is this. Jones' character came off like such an ineffectual douche the way it went down. He doesn't help Moss, he doesn't find the money, he doesn't find Anton. He might as well retire cause he wasn't worth a shit as a lawman.

 

What? You obviously missed one of the major themes of the movie; that this bloodbath would come to this quiet little border town was indicative of the violence and amorality that was encroaching on society as a whole. That scene where Bell discusses with the deputy the increasingly depraved and sadistic nature of the crimes that were being reported in the news played into Bell's overall feeling of hopelessness in the face of all that he was witnessing. It was becoming no country for an old man such as himself. His speech about the dream of his father reflected that, in Bell's way of thinking, the old life was the one for him. Plus, what could've Bell done? Chigurh managed to remain "a ghost" because of the times; the film took place in 1980. Given a lack of technology—no security cameras—plus hardly anyone who crossed Chigurh's path lived to speak of it made it nearly impossible to track him. No one knew what he looked like, least of all Bell.

 

--Chigurh was frankly a total pussy. Yes, that's right. He's a real badass when he just kills totally unsuspecting victims (even some who are helping him!). Or when he can pearl harbor someone with a sneak attack. But he couldn't do much with Moss once Moss knew he was coming, and he also hid like a bitch from an actual armed sheriff.

 

I don't know where you got the impression "he couldn't do much with Moss once Moss knew he was coming," so I'll leave you to explain that one, but the idea of Chigurh not killing Bell when he had the chance is completely dunderheaded. Do you think Chigurh would've been stupid enough to kill someone at what was already a (possibly monitored) crime scene? Plus, given Chigurh's grand notions of destiny—another one of the film's major themes that seemed to have gone over your head—he saw no reason to kill Bell as Bell did not stand in his way, or, as Wells put it, "inconvenience him."

[Coffin Surfer 0]

Here's some thoughts:

 

 

--An aspect of the ending not really mentioned is this. Jones' character came off like such an ineffectual douche the way it went down. He doesn't help Moss, he doesn't find the money, he doesn't find Anton. He might as well retire cause he wasn't worth a shit as a lawman.

 

--Chigurh was frankly a total pussy. Yes, that's right. He's a real badass when he just kills totally unsuspecting victims (even some who are helping him!). Or when he can pearl harbor someone with a sneak attack. But he couldn't do much with Moss once Moss knew he was coming, and he also hid like a bitch from an actual armed sheriff.

 

It wasn't just Bell, I got the impression that both him and Chigurh failed as neither got Moss. They were presented more as rivals than real enemies and their sense of honor mirrors each other despite one being a man of ruthless violence and the other repulsed by it. Chigurh didn't kill Bell because there was no need to, both seemed to be there to mourn their short coming. Bell couldn't save Moss and Chigurh didn't get to kill him as the money didn't really seem to matter especially after he just killed his employer.

 

[cabbageboy 0]

Okay hold up on one thing. I was never exactly sure how Chigurh fit into the drug deal and precisely who he was working for. For instance:

 

What was up with Chigurh killing the boss dude? I assumed that was the rival side since Chigurh may have been working for the Mexican side. I mention this because the boss hires Woody Harrelson as his bounty hunter....why do this if Chigurh is already on the case working for him? Further, why would Chigurh kill Harrelson and the boss if in theory this was his boss and coworker? I can see killing rivals.

 

I was perplexed as to what role Chigurh played in the drug deal itself. When the film opened he was being picked up by a cop...was this in the direct aftermath of the botched drug deal? What precisely was he being arrested for? Was he present at the actual drug deal and got the hell out of dodge once everyone was shooting everyone?

 

You know what this reminded me of (of all things)? Cruising, the notorious Pacino movie where he's after a killer that prowls gay bars. I mention it because Cruising is a movie with a really disturbing and bizarre ending that made me wonder what the hell I'd just seen.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Okay hold up on one thing. I was never exactly sure how Chigurh fit into the drug deal and precisely who he was working for. For instance:

 

What was up with Chigurh killing the boss dude? I assumed that was the rival side since Chigurh may have been working for the Mexican side. I mention this because the boss hires Woody Harrelson as his bounty hunter....why do this if Chigurh is already on the case working for him? Further, why would Chigurh kill Harrelson and the boss if in theory this was his boss and coworker? I can see killing rivals.

 

I was perplexed as to what role Chigurh played in the drug deal itself. When the film opened he was being picked up by a cop...was this in the direct aftermath of the botched drug deal? What precisely was he being arrested for? Was he present at the actual drug deal and got the hell out of dodge once everyone was shooting everyone?

 

The boss (Stephen Root of Newsradio and

Office Space fame) had hired Chigurh to recover the money from the botched drug deal. This is evident by Anton having the device to track the transponder, and some of the dialogue later with Carson Wells. The men that accompany Anton to the site of the shootout in the desert (and whom he subsequently shoots) are also associates of the boss. However, the boss also gave the Mexicans a receiver, which Anton realizes when he finds and kills the three Mexicans in the hotel room where Llewellyn had originally hidden the money. Presumably he thought this would result in the money getting recovered more quickly. Instead, it results in him getting shot when Anton comes calling, pissed that he had more people interfering in the job he was being paid to do and endangering his own safety.

 

The boss hires Carson Wells to track down and stop Anton once Anton clearly goes outside the lines of what he was expected to do, killing the boss' other associates and dropping plenty of other bodies in his pursuit of Llewellyn and the cash. Wells and Anton weren't co-workers; "rivals" is probably a better definition, though he mostly kills him because he's being pursued by him. Anton was not present at the original drug deal and we're not told why he was being arrested at the beginning of the movie; I don't think it matters.

 

I haven't read the book, which might clarify things a little further, but I thought most of this was pretty clear.

[cabbageboy 0]

Based on all of that though....why did the Boss even hire a complete loose cannon nutjob like Chigurh in the first place? Wells himself could have vouched for what a total lunatic psycho Chigurh is and that it might not be a good idea to hire him.

 

The scene where Chigurh kills the Mexicans in the hotel was bizarre to me at first. I thought initially that Chigurh had made a mistake and gone in a room near Moss, thinking it was the right room...and then shot some Mexicans. It seemed bizarre but easy enough to figure that these Mexicans were also after the money, but I didn't consider that they too had the transponder. Yet they had to have some way of knowing where Moss is....but if so why were they just chilling in the hotel right beside Moss instead of breaking into his room?

 

Moss was a dumbass to be honest. He makes so many really horrible mistakes. I'm baffled as to why he had this crisis of conscience and went back about 10 hours later to give the one dying Mexican a jug of water. The dude was going to die anyway. Also, Moss should have made a thorough inspection of the money and briefcase, search for a device or a dye pack. Maybe put the cash in another bag.

 

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

You really missed a lot of very obvious details.

 

The Mexicans definitely had the transponder, confirmed by the accountant when Anton shoots the boss. He says something along the lines of "He wanted to make sure the money was found," I believe. The Mexicans were in Moss' old hotel room; remember, he got the second room after he put the satchel in the duct, as a protective measure (one of the few truly smart things Moss does throughout the film). They were looking for the money, couldn't find it, and presumably were going to look for it some more until they all got killed. This is not an unreasonable conclusion to draw given all the material.

 

Also, Wells was not an employee of the boss. Neither was Anton. They were clearly freelance hitmen and recovery specialists hired for individual tasks.

 

Finally, yes, Moss made lots of mistakes. Again, you're missing a lot of obvious details if you can't follow the reasons he made the decisions he did. He wasn't a very smart character, thought he could play tough and hang with Anton and the other forces at work, and ultimately paid for it. This isn't anything like the typical "don't go back into the house while the killer's there!" stupid movie character. On bringing the water back: Moss was cautious (witness his waiting some extended period of time to see if the dead man under the tree with the satchel moved at all before approaching him) but compassionate, clearly feeling somewhat guilty for taking the money and not helping the guy. Once his short-sightedness catches up to him that first time, he becomes more reckless, but stays fairly dumb. It's a fantastic character, extremely well-played by Brolin, avoiding the easy route of making this guy into some working-class hero when he's nothing at all like that.

 

Check the IMDB boards if you can't figure something else out. There are piles of threads answering all this stuff for people who similarly missed the details.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

The movie was awesome up until the

main guy (Moss?) died. the rest of it, while kind of interesting in a funky way, were generally disappointing, leaving me with a big WTF reaction. Tommy Lee Jones was particularly pointless and useless. I was hoping he'd run into the assassin guy at the end somehow, just to give the movie a cool climax.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Edit: Go spoiler tags, go.

[cabbageboy 0]

Edwin, I did actually pick up on most of what you said aside from the Mexicans also having a transponder. That I would need to look for on a 2nd viewing but I'm sure it is there.

 

I also agree with metr0man that Tommy Lee Jones' character was ineffectual and frankly in the end rather pointless. He mostly sits in various restaurants during the movie, does little actual detecting, gives long winded speeches, and in the end doesn't capture Chigurh. It's hard to blame some of this stuff on him since there are a lot of killings and mayhem that take place out of his county.

 

There really needed to be some sort of final confrontation between Bell and Chigurh. Even if it was Chigurh either killing him or leaving him for dead. I don't mind major characters being killed out of nowhere (see Psycho or To Live and Die in LA), just kinda wish Moss' death was at least shown onscreen.

 

Off the top of my head here is how I would have ended it, keeping the majority of the scenes intact but making it a bit more palatable. I would have had Sheriff Bell stop by to pay his respects to Carla Jean after her mother died (as well as Llewelyn)...then bam, here comes Chigurh. There's a confrontation, Chigurh wounds Bell and Bell gets a shot off...Chigurh flees and gets in his car. Bell stumbles out and gets in his car to pursue and they have a bit of a chase that leads to the outskirts of town. SMASH! The car still hits Chigurh and Bell crashes into those two cars as well. Bell is right fucked up and nearly dead....Chigurh gets out and has the same injuries (nasty broken arm, etc.). However, instead of simply walking away in a neighborhood they are out in the middle of nowhere, the desert. Chigurh stumbles off in serious pain and drifts out of sight into the desert. While we don't necessarily see him die, we can only conclude he's basically screwed since he's seriously injured and in the middle of nowhere.

 

Then we can see Bell now recovering from his injuries and also now retired. He can do the same speech about his dreams, still be disillusioned by everything that's happened.

 

 

I think that ending provides a bit more of a climax and still for the most part stays true to everything.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I don't want to be mean here, but that's a stupid conventional ending that makes little sense given Sheriff Bell's character and adds nothing to the movie. All it does is make you feel like Bell is more of a hero than he actually is for the sake of gratuitous action. The notion that a character has to partake in a car chase to have a point is just the wrong way to watch a movie. At the point that you're blaming characters for events and making judgments on whether or not they were "pointless," you're just way outside what's actually there in front of you.

[cabbageboy 0]

Why is my ending stupid? I didn't have Bell doing Rambo style heroics, in fact the end result is pretty much the same. Now if I had Bell getting shot by Chigurh repeatedly and keep getting up until he killed Chigurh then that is a stupid ending.

 

I'll put it to you this way. Films and books are two different mediums. This ending might play better in print where people could read it over and over. But it just doesn't translate to film at all. If you or I turned in a script or story for a class with that ending it would come back with comments like "Rewrite this ending, it doesn't work. It lacks an actual climax, falling action, etc."

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

It translates to film just fine as long as you're not desperate to be locked into the absolutely most staid definition of story structure possible. I mean,

this movie does have a climax. It does have falling action. It just doesn't put them in all the typical places.

The notion that a successful story has to absolutely follow the 3- or 5-act dramatic structures laid out by Aristotle and Freytag, respectively, is infantile.

 

The reason your ending is goofy:

WHY must there be a confrontation between Bell and Chigurh, as you put it? In the aftermath of Llewellyn's pointless, random death--not even at the hands of the guy Bell was pursuing--and his failure to console Carla Jean at the crime scene, Bell gives up. His conversation with Ellis, his paralyzed uncle, goes over all the terrible things they've seen on the job. How he's lived to see so much more terrible stuff than his father, even though his father was killed on the job in his 40s. It ties back expertly to Bell's opening narration, where he describes not understanding how to wrap his head around the boy who killed his girlfriend, not in a crime of passion, but because he'd "wanted to kill somebody for a long time." He checks out of a world that's getting worse at an exponential and incomprehensible rate.

 

Jones' performance and the direction the character takes over the film absolutely suggests to me that he would do just as he did: retire quietly, unfulfilled and unsuccessful in solving this case, but too terrified of this world to go back to it even in a tangential fashion. He failed Llewellyn and Carla Jean, and it makes complete sense that his fear and shame would keep him from "paying respects" or whatever plot device you want to use to get him in a gunfight and car chase with Chigurh. Bell is destroyed by the end of the movie because of all these failures and evasions, but he's still alive. Whether that's a good thing is something that the final scene and his beautiful closing monologue leaves quite ambiguous. Considering all this, Bell never meeting Chigurh--an inescapable force of death and doom to everyone he encounters--is a significant facet of the point of the whole thing.

 

I think this is a pretty much perfectly executed film that subverts and manipulates many of the expectations and desires you keep coming back to--confrontation, closure, etc.--on its way to telling a compelling and uncompromising story. And I think that will end my comments on the movie in this here thread.

[dubq 0]

^^^ What he said.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

http://ncfmb.ytmnd.com/

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

I felt this was an excellent film with the cat and mouse game between Moss and Chigurh being the clear highlight, although I definitely felt that the ending was unsatisfying, anti-climactic and different for the sake of being different, and Tommy Lee Jones isn't a good enough actor to hold my interest with long-winded speeches. However, I thought Josh Brolin stole the show and was an excellent flawed, film noir protagonist who you knew was doomed but couldn't help getting behind anyway. Hopefully he's able to land more leading roles after this because he has a great screen presence and isn't a youthful looking heartthrob with little charisma, like most of the new breed of American leading men.