The OAO Discussion For Raw (10/22)

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I think it's about the same.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

Kennedy got over initially because of his "Mr Kennedy....Kennedy" bit and the Greenbay Plunge finisher. I like the idea that he tries to make matches look more real, however that doesn't work when you're wrestling a smaller man like HBK, because it makes said person look bad and you certainly don't want to do that. When he's wrestling bigger guys who can manhandle him around, his "making it look more real" bits work.

 

I'm not comparing Punk to HBK, but Kennedy and Punk had shoddy matches for the same reason as Punk can't actually carry Kennedy around. I wonder if Kennedy's "working heavy" actually hurt Cena as Cena was expecting his opponent to flip through the hiptoss, whereas Kennedy expects to be carried through it to a certain extent.

 

Who wants to bet we get a Hardcore Holly vs Ken Kennedy feud in the near future.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

I don't think WWE blamed Kennedy for what happened to Cena, he was under consideration for the title at No Mercy, and he hasn't gotten majorly depushed either. They probably accepted there was blame on both guys for what happened. That said, HBK coming out and saying he thinks he's unsafe to work with will not do him any favours. And I think last night guaranteed we won't be seeing a HBK/Kennedy feud anytime soon.

 

Maybe heading back to smackdown is the best option at this point.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Jericho makes a cameo in the new Save Us video. Check the silhouette on the left-hand side during Santino's interrupted promo. It's the hair.

 

Also, why does Lillian explain the rules of the 2/3 Falls Match and How To Win it?

[Guest thehartfoundation]

I didn't read the previous posts but does anyone know if our vote matters, or if they just select the matches in advance, because a lot of the matches, the best choice is clear.

[Hawk 34 0]

I didn't read the previous posts but does anyone know if our vote matters, or if they just select the matches in advance, because a lot of the matches, the best choice is clear.

 

They have matches/people they want to be selected which is why they heavily push for it. Umaga/HHH is being built for fans to select the street fight match. The votes are rigged by manipulation. We've seen in the past that the match they push hard for still doesn't win the voting and they still comply.

[Guest thehartfoundation]

I didn't read the previous posts but does anyone know if our vote matters, or if they just select the matches in advance, because a lot of the matches, the best choice is clear.

 

They have matches/people they want to be selected which is why they heavily push for it. Umaga/HHH is being built for fans to select the street fight match. The votes are rigged by manipulation.

 

Yeah, and they are pushing for Michaels vs. Orton, because they have him giving someone a super kick, to end RAW since he has been back.

[Hawk 34 0]

Very observant, want a cookie?

[garfieldsnose 0]

But if the manipulation doesn't work, they still go with what the fans voted for.

[haws bah gawd 0]

I do like how JR and the King made sure to mention last week that Jeff Hardy was leading in the voting thus far. The only thing I DONT like is how they repeatedly harp on and on about how Orton feels HBK is his TRUE adversary. Hardy also brought up a valid point in his backstage segment last night, telling HBK "he's had his shot (HBK), now he wants his (Hardy)". I'm all for Hardy getting the shot. Compared to how he performed in 2003, Hardy is one of the most improved wrestlers I've watched in sometime, and he deserves something in return.

[cabbageboy 0]

While HBK did get to lay Orton out it was Jeff who won that tag match. Let Jeff get the title shot, it would at least save them from doing the Michaels/Orton match on a nothing PPV. And truth be told, Shawn has had a hundred title shots in the past 4 years and hasn't won anything.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Very observant, want a cookie?

I'll have a cookie if nobody else wants one.

[Hawk 34 0]

I just wonder for the sake of Shawn's ego, what do they do as a cover for Shawn losing? They want Shawn in that spot, that is obvious. Doesn't that clearly point out the fans don't care about Shawn getting revenge?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

You act like it's a given Shawn will lose to Jeff Hardy.

[Hawk 34 0]

You act like it's a given Shawn will lose to Jeff Hardy.

 

 

I didn't say it was given but we'd already been speaking hypothetically, whereas my question would stand.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

In that case they probably would have Orton retain with HBK costing Hardy the DQ.

[Scroby 0]

Also, why does Lillian explain the rules of the 2/3 Falls Match and How To Win it?

Because she should. There's always the chance you'll have a new viewer watching who doesn't know what a 2 out of 3 falls match is.

[fazzle 0]

But if the manipulation doesn't work, they still go with what the fans voted for.

 

Except in the case of Snitsky vs. Kane, when the fans voted for a chain match, and WWE basically said "Fuck that shit, yo," and had the match revolve around a chair anyways.

[JPopStarKami 0]

In that case they probably would have Orton retain with HBK costing Hardy the DQ.

 

But HBK's a face, why would he do that?

[haws bah gawd 0]

In that case they probably would have Orton retain with HBK costing Hardy the DQ.

 

But HBK's a face, why would he do that?

 

They always try to have HBK stick his nose into a title match. Remember Wrestlemania 20? Child-Murderer was supposed to get the title shot due to winning the Rumble, but HBK superkicked him and put HIS name on the contract.

[cabbageboy 0]

If Michaels is going to keep getting title shots ad nauseum then he needs to win the belt. Even if it's just a transition run or whatever.

 

Sure, Michaels could win the voting but let's just say at this point if he did I would suspicion a fix. If Jeff did win this vote it would have to be a huge blow to HBK's ego since the entire main event angle is him trying to get revenge on Orton.

[haws bah gawd 0]

If Michaels is going to keep getting title shots ad nauseum then he needs to win the belt. Even if it's just a transition run or whatever.

 

Sure, Michaels could win the voting but let's just say at this point if he did I would suspicion a fix. If Jeff did win this vote it would have to be a huge blow to HBK's ego since the entire main event angle is him trying to get revenge on Orton.

 

Who would have the best (or worst, depending on how you look at it) ratio of getting title shots to losing the match? HBK or Batista?

[mfn 0]

someone want to post the new save us video with this so called jericho appearance?

[Insanity 0]

Can't wait till Michaels retires. Take your fucked up knees and go home.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

In that case they probably would have Orton retain with HBK costing Hardy the DQ.

 

But HBK's a face, why would he do that?

 

This booking would have HBK superkicking Orton, causing Hardy to lose.

[cabbageboy 0]

HBK has been far worse than Batista at getting all sorts of shots without winning. Bear in mind Batista rarely LOSES these matches. It's mostly his opponent getting a DQ, or there's a count out, etc. Or if it's a 4 way someone else is pinned. Since he relinquished the title and came back Booker T. mostly got himself DQed, and Batista lost to UT at WM but the LMS match was a draw and the cage match was a draw. He also faced Khali and Kane jobbed in that 3 way, Khali was DQed at SS, and so on.

 

Shawn Michaels has had title shots for years without ever winning the title. He jobbed to HHH more times than I can recall, or maybe he lost to Benoit in 2004, lost to Cena, and so on. It's like they want to constantly push Michaels but the reality is that he's been injury prone and doesn't want to be on the road, so they can't really put the belt on him.

[Just call me Dan 0]

Oh, he'll get that title ONCE. He's gotta have the most updated version for his trophy case. I'd assume when Cena comes back, he and Shawn will eventually trade the title once or twice before Shawn puts him over again. They have unfinished business that I'm sure more of us would like to see revisited.

[TheFranchise 0]

I'm not sure what is up with Kennedy. During his initial run he was pretty solid, but it seems like once he got hurt in late 2005 he never quite seemed the same.

 

The Hogan match from 2005 isn't the best example of HBK antics. It was theatrical overselling to the max, but Hogan wasn't wildly screwing up spots or anything. The Shamrock match from Dec. 1997 is one where Michaels yelled spots out and generally made Shamrock look moronic.

Not seen, I'd love to though from your description.

 

[Atticus Chaos 0]

The problem with Shawn as champion is, because he's a part timer, he doesn't work house shows. If you're going along to a WWE houseshow, you're going to want to see the brand's champion.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah the HBK/Shamrock match was from the DX PPV in Dec. 1997. Apparently Shawn thought Shamrock was a goof and beneath him so he specifically would call a spot audibly to do it. It's not a particularly bad match really, but it's funny if you know what to look for.