WWE 24/7 Discussion Thread - November 2007

[cabbageboy 0]

King, I know Montreal was likely a legit screwjob but it's just so eerie how everything that happened with Bret in 1997 led up to that match. It was like he almost had to be screwed, there was no other way it could end in storyline terms.

[Diamonddust 0]

King, I know Montreal was likely a legit screwjob but it's just so eerie how everything that happened with Bret in 1997 led up to that match. It was like he almost had to be screwed, there was no other way it could end in storyline terms.

 

I think it was an example of a perfect storm:

 

Bret had complained all that year about being screwed...

 

McMahon decides to implement a real screw-job against him...

 

In the attempt to turn a bad situation into a positive, McMahon uses it against Bret and creates the "Mr. McMahon" character...

 

The Steve Austin anti-authority character is waiting in the wings and now has his perfect foil that the fans absolutely hate at that point.

 

In what many people saw as a potential death blow to the WWE, they were able to turn it into one of the most profitable feuds of all time.

[Guest]

King, I know Montreal was likely a legit screwjob but it's just so eerie how everything that happened with Bret in 1997 led up to that match. It was like he almost had to be screwed, there was no other way it could end in storyline terms.

I sorta misinterpreted what you said, but by the time I noticed I wasn't around to edit it.

[cabbageboy 0]

I have to wonder. Let's say Bret tried to sue the WWF after Montreal (which would make no sense really). Couldn't Vince say that the entire situation was a work and then back that up by showing all the TV from 1997 where Bret ranted about being screwed by the man? Vince could further state that they did a worked conversation for Wrestling With Shadows but the REAL booking plan wasn't recorded.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Couldn't Vince say that the entire situation was a work and then back that up by showing all the TV from 1997 where Bret ranted about being screwed by the man? Vince could further state that they did a worked conversation for Wrestling With Shadows but the REAL booking plan wasn't recorded.

From Meltzer at WC:

 

If it was a work, why did Vince file a lawsuit (which failed) to attempt to keep the movie from coming out?

 

Why did, in the attempt at the settlement, did WWE agree to drop the attempt to stop the film as long as Paul Jay (who put the movie together) took out the scene of Vince being carried out of the room?

 

I've read the court papers. Hell, I was in the middle of one of the cases (Owen Hart wrongful death case where the Survivor Series was brought up specifically as a key part of the defense argument and mentioned by the prosecution as well) , and I can tell you that I'm not working you, and that case settled for $18 million and you mean to say one side wouldn't call work when the other used it as its main defense with tens of millions at stake?

 

You don't involve the court in two sides working an angle. You don't have lawyers going back and forth constantly on legal settlements in front of judges in a worked angle. There were lawyers going back and worth the entire week before the match, and in several cases involving the movie and Owen Hart after the match, as well as threats of persecution for assault and damage to property on one side and breach of contract on the other that didn't get filed.

 

You don't have lawyers for Turner involved in legal proceedings involving the Wrestling with Shadows tape on an internally worked WWF angle.

 

Davey Boy Smith also strained his knee pulling Shane McMahon off during the non-existent fight, and then quit the company over a worked angle and ended up paying $100,000 to Vince McMahon (for real, a legal settlement) so he could leave and go to WCW, a move he greatly regretted a few months later, by the way. Owen Hart tried to also quit the company over a "worked angle" but was told he would not be allowed out of his contract.

 

Bret Hart also turned down how many straight years of begin asked to come back over a "worked angle" that he refuses to come to its conclusion. He was told if he could just do 5:00 with Vince he'd main event this year's (2006) Mania and they told him it would do 1 million buys and he turned down the match, and turned down a ref job of the main event at two different Manias, returns at virtually every Survivor Series.

 

Isn't the idea of shooting the greatest angle in the world to then make money with the payoff?

 

No 'likely' about it.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

"I'm receiving word that the nWo is arriving in the back... the area we call the 'backstage area'" - good call, Tony.

 

I have to say, the fake Alex Wright music they dub on 24/7 is pretty good. It's no original Alex Wright theme, but it's still pretty jazzy.

[Black Lushus 0]

I haven't been watching the Nitros, is Wright in dancing like a goofy ass heel mode yet?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

He was teaming with Psychosis/Psicosis to fight the force of Konnan and Hugh Morris.

[Black Lushus 0]

that's an odd pairing

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Apparently Public Enemy will be taking it TO THE EXTREEEEME on the Philadelphia Nitro... which is being skipped. I was all for that skipping but now that I see that Nitro was from Philly, I'm kind of interested in what the fan reactions were like. Any avid Nitro viewers from this time period recall?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

It was odd hearing JR hype "Sunday Night Heat" - my first though was "isn't this a year too ealry?", then I saw it referred to a block of programming featuring Pacific Blue and Silk Stalkings.

[Guest tdel73]

any reason why they are skipping the April 14th Raw/Nitro?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

It sucks?

 

I'm not totally sure but Nitro may have been on a Tuesday or Wednesday due to the NBA play-offs... but I thought that didn't happen until May, so I don't know. I really think it's because the Africa Raw is really weak. Maybe they lost the tape because it's not a Raw in a traditional sense? Skipping the episode must have always been the plan too, because Cole's end of show tag clearly suggests the next episode will deal with the In Your House results.

 

I couldn't remember if I dreamed up that Foley promo where he says "if you can't believe a guy like me could have maternal bliss, then shut off the TV or turn the channel to some other wrestling show" but there it was on Raw, existing and a bit odd. I have to agree with what others (King) have said - 10.5 years later, that HBK promo is more boring than shootish and interesting. Maybe because I JUST read the transcript in Bret's book a week ago too.

[Diamonddust 0]

any reason why they are skipping the April 14th Raw/Nitro?

 

Probably because very little happens on either show, and the next MNW features the Austin/Hart ambulance brawl.

[Diamonddust 0]

It sucks?

 

I'm not totally sure but Nitro may have been on a Tuesday or Wednesday due to the NBA play-offs... but I thought that didn't happen until May, so I don't know. I really think it's because the Africa Raw is really weak. Maybe they lost the tape because it's not a Raw in a traditional sense? Skipping the episode must have always been the plan too, because Cole's end of show tag clearly suggests the next episode will deal with the In Your House results.

 

I couldn't remember if I dreamed up that Foley promo where he says "if you can't believe a guy like me could have maternal bliss, then shut off the TV or turn the channel to some other wrestling show" but there it was on Raw, existing and a bit odd. I have to agree with what others (King) have said - 10.5 years later, that HBK promo is more boring than shootish and interesting. Maybe because I JUST read the transcript in Bret's book a week ago too.

 

Nitro doesn't go into NBA Mode until the May episodes.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

That's what I thought. I think one of those unopposed Raw's in May did a record rating or something. Shame it took them 11 months after THAT to win a battle.

[Black Lushus 0]

when do we see HBK superkicking Bret back in to his wheelchair? a visual for the ages!

[Diamonddust 0]

when do we see HBK superkicking Bret back in to his wheelchair? a visual for the ages!

 

I believe that comes during the build for King of the Ring, a card that was supposed to feature Bret vs. Shawn AND Austin vs. Pillman.

[cabbageboy 0]

Just wondering but does anyone know where to find Raw ratings from 1993-95? I have a site that has the ratings from Sept. 95 onward since that was when Nitro was on as well but I'm curious as to the pre Nitro Raw ratings.

 

Is it just me or did Shawn Michaels do jack shit for nearly all of 1997? He loses his smile early, shows up on Raw for no real reason and cuts shoot promos that lead nowhere, almost quits again during the summer, then refs at SS. He did have quite the excellent last couple of months in 1997 though.

[Diamonddust 0]

Just wondering but does anyone know where to find Raw ratings from 1993-95? I have a site that has the ratings from Sept. 95 onward since that was when Nitro was on as well but I'm curious as to the pre Nitro Raw ratings.

 

Is it just me or did Shawn Michaels do jack shit for nearly all of 1997? He loses his smile early, shows up on Raw for no real reason and cuts shoot promos that lead nowhere, almost quits again during the summer, then refs at SS. He did have quite the excellent last couple of months in 1997 though.

 

Most of 1997 saw Shawn at the height of the ego trip to end all ego trips.

[Black Lushus 0]

he won the tag titles at some point on Raw in either May or June and wrestled Austin at KOTR. Then I think he was back to doing nothing pretty much until IYH: Ground Zero

[Diamonddust 0]

he won the tag titles at some point on Raw in either May or June and wrestled Austin at KOTR. Then I think he was back to doing nothing pretty much until IYH: Ground Zero

 

He won the belts with Austin in May of '97. The match with Austin, though, was put in place because of the fight that Michaels and Hart had just before that PPV. I remember the original card getting completely redone because of that.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

April 14th Nitro You're Missing (I was at this show!)

 

*** WCW Monday Nitro (Live)

 

04/14/97

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

 

Dark Match: Ice Train & Joe Gomez defeated Ace Darling & Devon Storm (with the unnamed formerly valet Kimona Wannalaya) when Train pinned Darling after a big splash.

Dark Match: Madusa defeated Luna Vachon by disqualification when Luna kicked the referee in the groin as Madusa was executing the German Suplex.

 

Kevin Nash announced that Lex Luger would have to go through him before getting his WCW World Title match against Hulk Hogan. Nick Patrick petitioned to become a WCW referee again.

 

1. Chris Benoit pinned The Barbarian after a flying headbutt. The Dungeon of Doom attacked Benoit after the match. Steve McMichael & Jeff Jarrett made the save.

2. WCW U.S. Champion Dean Malenko defeated Hector Guerrero via submission with the Texas Cloverleaf.

3. Rey Misterio, Jr. pinned Juventud Guerrera with a springboard hurancanrana.

4. WCW Television Champion Ultimo Dragon pinned Lane Carlson with a Dragon Suplex and bridge.

5. WCW Cruiserweight Champion Syxx defeated Prince Iaukea via submission with the Buzzkiller (crossface chicken wing).

6. The Public Enemy defeated High Voltage in a "Philadelphia Street Fight" when Rocco Rock pinned Rage after doing hitting the "Drive-By" on Rage and putting him through two tables.

7. The Giant pinned Big Al (formerly ECW's "911") following a choke slam.

8. Dallas Page (with Kimberly) pinned Konan after a Diamond Cutter.

9. Steve McMichael & Jeff Jarrett (with Debra McMichael) defeated Harlem Heat (with Sister Sherri) via disqualification when Sister Sherri assaulted Debra. McMichael insulted the NFL's Reggie White after the match. White, in attendance, jumped the guardrail but was restrained by security.

10. Lex Luger defeated Kevin Nash via disqualification when the nWo interfered. Dallas Page, The Giant, and Sting made the save for Luger.

_______

 

Quick thoughts from a review I did:

 

- Benoit/Barbarian is good. But they wouldn't show this anyway, right?

- Mysterio/Juvy is good.

- "Lane Carlson" aka Lenny Lane gets a TV Title Shot and gets a buncha offense, too!

- Syxx Vs. Iaukea is an AWESOME little match. Man, Iaukea stunk up PPVs during his little push, but he was red HOT on Nitro. Crowd really liked him.

- 911 Vs. The Giant!

- Philly gets to markout for Reggie White one last time.

 

Goddamnit, Philly shows were always a little wilder. Especially for WCW who was still the "young virgin" when it came to ECW-esque hardcore wild brawls. The announcers would sell brawling with garbage can lids like the world was going to end.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

The original card for KOTR '97 was Ahmed Vs. Taker, Bret Vs. Michaels, and Austin Vs. Pillman in a Lumberjack Strap Match.

 

Ahmed's title shot got bumped to IYH:Can. Stampede, which he missed again.

 

Ahmed/Taker and Bret/Shawn are previewed in WWF Magazine.

[fairtoflair7 0]

Flair spreading eagle on the floor of the NWA studio is great.

[TheSSNintendo 0]

Just wondering but does anyone know where to find Raw ratings from 1993-95? I have a site that has the ratings from Sept. 95 onward since that was when Nitro was on as well but I'm curious as to the pre Nitro Raw ratings.

 

Is it just me or did Shawn Michaels do jack shit for nearly all of 1997? He loses his smile early, shows up on Raw for no real reason and cuts shoot promos that lead nowhere, almost quits again during the summer, then refs at SS. He did have quite the excellent last couple of months in 1997 though.

 

Ratings for Raw: '93-'95 (Pre-Nitro)

 

[Darth Pipes 0]

when do we see HBK superkicking Bret back in to his wheelchair? a visual for the ages!

 

This never made the air. I remember that addition of Raw ending with Shawn staring at Bret in the wheelchair, who was ripping him on the mic. They never mentioned it again on Raw but I was the pictures in the Apter magazines a few months later with Bret taking the superkick and laying flat on his back.

[Black Lushus 0]

Disappointing...guess I'll have to search YouTube

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Shawn superkicking Bret out of the chair did make it to air at some point, just not live. They definitely aired it on the weekend shows, and they probably also aired it the following week.

[Black Lushus 0]

I was going to say, I swear I saw that live.