The Mitchell Report

[Guest]

And re: the lack of Red Sox, I also find it suspicious, but not at all surprising due to the conflict of interest there. It would be like asking George Steinbrenner to investigate steroids and expecting to see A-Rod, Posada etc. show up on the list. Everyone's like, "oh, he's a former US senator, how can you question his integrity?" Last time I checked politicians were some of the dirtiest motherfuckers in the game, since when do we trust their word at face value? I don't care how respected he is, every crook in Washington has people who'll swear to their "integrity". Even if he didn't implicitly cover anything up there, there's no reason to think he wasn't influenced to look the other way or take certain things at face value without digging any deeper.

Did you read the entire report? In case you didn't, well....

 

When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagné, a Red Sox official

made specific inquiries about Gagné’s possible use of steroids. In a November 1, 2006 email to

a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, “Have you done any digging on Gagne?

I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his

medical?”

 

The scout, Mark Delpiano, responded,

 

"Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a

checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues.

Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body

and re invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max

effort plus stuff . . . Mentality without the plus weapons and

without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back

durability and ability to throw average while allowing the changeup

to play as it once did . . . Personally, durability (or lack of) will

follow Gagne . . ."

The Sox still acquired him, didn't they. Why throw Epstein's name in the report at all if he's supposed to be "protecting" the Red Sox.

[UZI Suicide 0]

CBS Sportsline wins "Best headline" award for this story.

 

Check out their front page..http://cbs.sportsline.com/

 

MITCH SLAPPED

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

What I gather from the Epstein e-mails is that it's pretty much a trivial process within league circles to find out who is and isn't on steroids, or was or was not on them. This report is surely very, very, very incomplete. After all, only a small number of people cooperated with Mitchell and the folks from the teams they were associated with are the ones most commonly found in the report (Orioles, Mets, Yankees).

 

Personally I think the report was kind of crappy. If more people had cooperated with the investigation we might have a better idea of just how pervasive steroid usage is/was. Instead we just know that the guys who worked for the O's/Mets/Yankees were giving steroids to the players on the O's/Mets/Yankees.

[Guest cheetoe]

What I gather from the Epstein e-mails is that it's pretty much a trivial process within league circles to find out who is and isn't on steroids, or was or was not on them. This report is surely very, very, very incomplete. After all, only a small number of people cooperated with Mitchell and the folks from the teams they were associated with are the ones most commonly found in the report (Orioles, Mets, Yankees).

 

Personally I think the report was kind of crappy. If more people had cooperated with the investigation we might have a better idea of just how pervasive steroid usage is/was. Instead we just know that the guys who worked for the O's/Mets/Yankees were giving steroids to the players on the O's/Mets/Yankees.

 

 

Typical drug problems follow the same trend. The dealer starts out in a major market. He deals to the major players in that market and they involve the small time players and lackeys. As time goes on the product spreads into other areas as the lackeys break away and try to become players themselves. The small time guys usually take the fall and make deals by ratting out the major players, but the true big dogs rarely do any serious time.

 

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. It never ends.

 

It seems that the guys who can make so much money by having millionare athletes whose livelyhood depends on their ability to... you know, the crooked pharmacists, the Victor Conte's, and the drug manufacturers themselves even... to spread the product to personal trainers, clubhouse trainers, ect... Those guys pass the product onto the players. Those players "high" performance gets other players interested. Some of those players move on to other teams and get thier players interested, ect...

 

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the trends seem to spread from major cities in the northeast ( New York )and the west/northwest (Oakland, SD and SF ) into smaller surrounding areas ( Arizona, Baltimore, Seattle, ect... ) from there. The higest profile players usually play in those major markets, and the fringe players who bounce around teams would eventually start using certain drugs and spread usage from team to team. If i was a Drug Dealer with a new drug to peddle, I would surely follow a similar buisness model.

 

Best places to look are the places with the most widespread use. You can follow the trail from there. I think thats what the report tries to accomplish.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The true purpose of the report is to put pressure on the Players' Union to accept a harsher drug policy.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, from what I've read of the report so far, the MLBPA comes off as totally dickish, but that's to be expected.

[Guest Bigelow34]

I thought Fehr came off better than Selig. Fehr at least admitted that they should have acted and were lax in doing so, while Selig never accepted any blame and kept saying "we need to move forward".

[megaadvice 0]

Roger Clemens is a disgrace to baseball. At least have the guts to admit it you pussy.

[Brett Favre 0]

I figure Clemens has the option to defend himself cause there's a chance he didn't do shit. Geez.

[Guest Bigelow34]

Yeah, because a trainer who is facing federal prison and is accused of dealing with date rape drugs is obviously a very reliable source. I don't blame Roger for denying until solid evidence is presented.

[Failed Bridge 0]

I was surprised to see no mention of Nomar or Trot Nixon.

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

Yeah, because a trainer who is facing federal prison and is accused of dealing with date rape drugs is obviously a very reliable source. I don't blame Roger for denying until solid evidence is presented.

 

What is solid evidence? If they videotaped the guy shooting the steroids into Roger Clemens' ass, would that cound as solid evidence?

 

The guy was selling steroids to people. By virtue of that fact, he's a scumbag who can't be trusted. But who other than someone who sells steroids to people knows who bought steroids?

 

Don't make excuses for the man. He's got a nice comfortable life, steroids or not.

[Guest Bigelow34]

The Mets trainer who bought the roids for McNamee said that he was never told that they were for Clemens and Pettitte.

 

Clemens and Pettitte are two guys that have been suspected in the past. You are telling me that if you are a scumbag who was facing federal prison time and was told "give us names and you get a reduced sentence" that he wouldn't maybe just make shit up to get a reduced sentence. He obviously has no morals to begin with.

 

I am not saying they are clean, just saying that if I were Clemens I would wait for more evidence to leak as opposed to some junkie dropping his name. He has no reason to admit shit right now as there is no concrete case. My post was in reply to the guy who said Clemens is a pussy for denying. He gains nothing by admission right now, so I don't blame him.

 

Read Stark's article, it is really good:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...&id=3154116

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

The Mets trainer who bought the roids for McNamee said that he was never told that they were for Clemens and Pettitte.

 

Clemens and Pettitte are two guys that have been suspected in the past. You are telling me that if you are a scumbag who was facing federal prison time and was told "give us names and you get a reduced sentence" that he wouldn't maybe just make shit up to get a reduced sentence. He obviously has no morals to begin with.

 

I am not saying they are clean, just saying that if I were Clemens I would wait for more evidence to leak as opposed to some junkie dropping his name. He has no reason to admit shit right now as there is no concrete case.

 

Read Stark's article, it is really good:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...&id=3154116

 

Uh, what?

 

How can George Mitchell's investigation reduce someone's criminal penalties? George Mitchell was hired by Major League Baseball.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

How can George Mitchell's investigation reduce someone's criminal penalties? George Mitchell was hired by Major League Baseball.

 

Federal authorities gave a couple of the interviewees lighter sentence recommendations for supplying Mitchell with information. It's in the report.

[Guest Bigelow34]

"Clemens's lawyer, Rusty Hardin, said he had been told that McNamee was pressured by Jeff Novitzky, a tax investigator for the U.S. government, to give up names or face prosecution. McNamee agreed to cooperate with federal prosecutors under the terms that he would not be charged with a crime if he told the truth to the federal authorities and to investigators working for the report's author, former Senator George Mitchell. "

 

http://www.drugpolicycentral.com/bot/article/iht4699.htm

 

And what Alkeiper said up there.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yeah, last I checked, none of these guys have been convicted of any crime related to their related HGH/steroid usage. I don't think any of them are going to be punished for any of this, because there isn't enough evidence to really go off of anyway.

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

How can George Mitchell's investigation reduce someone's criminal penalties? George Mitchell was hired by Major League Baseball.

 

Federal authorities gave a couple of the interviewees lighter sentence recommendations for supplying Mitchell with information. It's in the report.

 

That seems ridiculous to me. Maybe baseball is more important than I thought. Why should cooperating with Major League Baseball be worth reducing the sentence of a drug dealer?

 

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

 

Page 28.

[snuffbox 0]

Pettite admitted to HGH use. Good for him.

[Brett Favre 0]

Well that makes Clemens look bad.

 

Did he say during what timeframe?

[naiwf 0]

Well that makes Clemens look bad.

 

Did he say during what timeframe?

 

Pettitte admits briefly using HGH, apologizes

Dec. 15, 2007

CBSSports.com wire reports

 

NEW YORK -- Andy Pettitte used human growth hormone to recover from an elbow injury in 2002, the New York Yankees pitcher said two days after he was cited in the Mitchell Report.

 

Pettitte said he tried HGH on two occasions.

 

"If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize," Pettitte said Saturday in a statement released by his agent. "I accept responsibility for those two days."

 

I guess they're saying he did HGH twice during the same timeframe. Props to Andy for at least admitting it unlike so many of his brethren.

[Guest My Pal, the Tortoise]

If what I did was an error in judgment on my part

Kinda was, maybe!

[NoCalMike 0]

I dunno how many people are familiar with FP Santangelo, but he played MLB for a little while and is now part of the local morning drive sports show here in Sacramento. The guy has been badmouthing players accused of the steroids and then this report comes out and his name is listed as one of them........talk about uncomfortable moments being on-air.....

[Guest NYankees]

I dunno how many people are familiar with FP Santangelo, but he played MLB for a little while and is now part of the local morning drive sports show here in Sacramento. The guy has been badmouthing players accused of the steroids and then this report comes out and his name is listed as one of them........talk about uncomfortable moments being on-air.....

 

 

If you look at his stats, he only had 21 homeruns in 1700 ab's. So if he were doing steroids, it wasn't doing him any good.

[Guest]

Steroids don't equal HR's. This is the biggest myth in sports.

 

What they do equal is a better body. You know, GM's like to see players come to camp that take care of themselves. That's a large reason why some of these marginal players use them. It doesn't always give them a statistical boost, but it gives scouts and GM's the appearance that they can put it together and help their ballclub. Pitchers get better velocity on their pitches, leading to better movement. Players like Santangelo get a better throwing arm. Since he's a utility player, that's going to keep him in the league longer, because having a better arm can help his fielding. You see?

 

To hit more HR's, that's going to go deeper than steroids. Santangelo has to adjust his entire swing in order to produce power. How's a guy his stature going to do that, and why would he, considering that he's fighting for a job as it is? He doesn't have the time to adjust his swing, and go through the process of learning how to hit all over again. His ass would be out of the league in a HURRY. The juice does give him more oomph, but without serious swing adjustments, it's not going to help you hit HR's. For a player like him, it's going to help him hit harder line drives, grabbing singles.

 

The argument of

 

So if he were doing steroids, it wasn't doing him any good.

 

only shows how deep your knowledge of the sport is. Which is to say, it isn't at all. The guy was grabbing close to 20 doubles from 1996-1999, in seasons where he didn't start every day. The juice was doing what he wanted it to help him do. Hit harder, stay in the majors, and make money. Shit, just the "making money" part of it was the steroids doing him good. DUH. Read the report. Supposedly, he was using in his rookie season, 1996.

 

.277/.369/.407, with 109 hits and 20 doubles in 467 plate appearances. He didn't even have to steal bases, and finished 4th in ROY voting. He stays in the league for portions of 5 seasons afterward. FP Santangelo beats the system, and cashes a nice paycheck. He wins.

 

 

You don't even have to be a good player to benefit from steroid use. If you're cashing a MLB check, you're benefiting. He had what, one good year? And it kept him around for how long? I don't think these guys give a fuck how many HR's they hit. They just want to cash the check. If a guy like Santangelo is getting on base and hitting line drives, he's cashing the check.

 

EDIT: Having just read the article below, he doesn't say he took anything during the 1996 season. But that's not what the report says.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

I dunno how many people are familiar with FP Santangelo, but he played MLB for a little while and is now part of the local morning drive sports show here in Sacramento. The guy has been badmouthing players accused of the steroids and then this report comes out and his name is listed as one of them........talk about uncomfortable moments being on-air.....

 

 

If you look at his stats, he only had 21 homeruns in 1700 ab's. So if he were doing steroids, it wasn't doing him any good.

 

Yeah ESPN has an article on him, he admitted to using HGH to help recover from an injury

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3155299

 

He came clean on air and let people bash him for the whole show on Friday

[Guest NYankees]

Steroids don't equal HR's. This is the biggest myth in sports.

 

What they do equal is a better body. You know, GM's like to see players come to camp that take care of themselves. That's a large reason why some of these marginal players use them. It doesn't always give them a statistical boost, but it gives scouts and GM's the appearance that they can put it together and help their ballclub. Pitchers get better velocity on their pitches, leading to better movement. Players like Santangelo get a better throwing arm. Since he's a utility player, that's going to keep him in the league longer, because having a better arm can help his fielding. You see?

 

To hit more HR's, that's going to go deeper than steroids. Santangelo has to adjust his entire swing in order to produce power. How's a guy his stature going to do that, and why would he, considering that he's fighting for a job as it is? He doesn't have the time to adjust his swing, and go through the process of learning how to hit all over again. His ass would be out of the league in a HURRY. The juice does give him more oomph, but without serious swing adjustments, it's not going to help you hit HR's. For a player like him, it's going to help him hit harder line drives, grabbing singles.

 

The argument of

 

So if he were doing steroids, it wasn't doing him any good.

 

only shows how deep your knowledge of the sport is. Which is to say, it isn't at all. The guy was grabbing close to 20 doubles from 1996-1999, in seasons where he didn't start every day. The juice was doing what he wanted it to help him do. Hit harder, stay in the majors, and make money. Shit, just the "making money" part of it was the steroids doing him good. DUH. Read the report. Supposedly, he was using in his rookie season, 1996.

 

.277/.369/.407, with 109 hits and 20 doubles in 467 plate appearances. He didn't even have to steal bases, and finished 4th in ROY voting. He stays in the league for portions of 5 seasons afterward. FP Santangelo beats the system, and cashes a nice paycheck. He wins.

 

 

You don't even have to be a good player to benefit from steroid use. If you're cashing a MLB check, you're benefiting. He had what, one good year? And it kept him around for how long? I don't think these guys give a fuck how many HR's they hit. They just want to cash the check. If a guy like Santangelo is getting on base and hitting line drives, he's cashing the check.

 

EDIT: Having just read the article below, he doesn't say he took anything during the 1996 season. But that's not what the report says.

 

Wow, I make one sarcastic comment and you go into a whole diatribe on a Saturday night. GOD I WISH I CAN HAVE YOUR PATHETIC LIFE!

 

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

It's called a message board. People will often respond to your posts with *gasp* messages! Some of them will contain actual thoughts. That might be a foreign word to a Yankee fan, but I'll save you the link to Webster's dictionary. Ask your parents to explain the concept.

 

Oh yeah, grow up.

[Guest RyechnaiaSobaka]

Hey douche, if you try to post a "your life sucks" comeback even later on the same Saturday night, you're pointing out that your own life is worthless already.

 

Furthermore, what are you, some kind of idiot? How many home runs did Roger Clemens hit in his career? Zero? Man, whole lot of good steroids did him, huh?