Monday Night Wars

[Darth Pipes 0]

Hogan didn't defend the title on TV afte r1987 (save for SNME) but at least he wrestled on house shows, usually at a pace of once a week. He completely buried the WCW title.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Savage's line about DDP on the August 25th Nitro got a laugh out of me even if the announcers didn't seem to get it.

 

"I was against DDP joining the nWo... but the nWo didn't have a weak link, so I'm okay with it". I hope that was in character and not a shoot. I also thought it was a bit odd that they jumped right from that segment to DDP's denial - I figured there was either a cut Benoit match there or because Nitro was unopposed, they saw no harm in running so many non-wrestling segments in a row.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The 9/8 episode of Nitro is pretty good. Rey/Eddie have a good match (Rey seems to botch a lot of his highspots but they make good saves), the Horseman stuff is good, and overall it's a pretty enjoyable show. Mark Curtis taking down the fan that ran in was pretty awesome too.

 

I think they may have edited some stuff from the Sting angle too, because a recap I'm reading mentions Hogan going out to the floor, saying Sting isn't breathing and calls for help. I just remember seeing someone throw the dummy in the ring while Hogan says "this wasn't supposed to happen". It's pretty obvious why they would edit that though and probably for the best.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Raw is kind of bittersweet right now. You know we're really close to the Attitude Era with Austin, Rock, and DX taking off, but I've also noticed Jim Neidhart has vanished, the Hart Foundation is in neutral and will be gone soon (and they've run out of steam) and we're also a few episodes away from Brian Pillman dying.

 

Anyway, the 9/8 Raw started out good with the Austin stuff and Hart vs. Vader but it really seemed dull afterwards. I like how when the crowd chanted boring during the main event, HHH gave them the crotch chop.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, let's face it Patriot/Savio/HHH was a pretty lame TV main event in 1997. Having seen both of the MNW shows I can safely say the Nitro was better on that week.

 

Isn't this Pillman angle really creepy looking back? The guy dies during this Goldust/Marlena angle, and then not long after his wife shows up on Raw and does an interview with Vince. Very weird and creepy stuff.

[King Kamala 0]

Wasn't Melanie Pillman interviewed on RAW the night after Pillman died? Even as a ten year old mark at the time, I thought that was a tad exploitative.

[Diamonddust 0]

Wasn't Melanie Pillman interviewed on RAW the night after Pillman died? Even as a ten year old mark at the time, I thought that was a tad exploitative.

 

Yes she was, and I imagine we'll be getting to see it that in the next couple of months when we reach that episode.

 

But I agree with the previous post, after a WHITE-HOT summer in terms of angles and such, the WWE did hit somewhat of a snag after Summerslam. The Hart Foundation lost a lot of steam with Bret having to deal with The Patriot, even though he was World Champion, and Shawn got the major program with The Undertaker, even though he just lost the World Title to Bret.

 

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

This may be best for the old school questions thread, but unless I wasn't paying attention this is the first Raw I recall hearing the crowd do the "WOO!" when someone gets chopped. When and how did that start? I think I heard something about it being an ECW thing for fans to mock Shane Douglas.

[Guest]

The Horsemen tag was a good way to let them get some of their heat back prior to the PPV...obviously we know how it went to shit.

[Diamonddust 0]

This may be best for the old school questions thread, but unless I wasn't paying attention this is the first Raw I recall hearing the crowd do the "WOO!" when someone gets chopped. When and how did that start? I think I heard something about it being an ECW thing for fans to mock Shane Douglas.

 

I always thought it was the other way around - the fans were doing it in a mocking gesture towards Flair as well.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

That would be pretty rude, but I guess it makes sense.

[cabbageboy 0]

After seeing that tag match the booking at Fall Brawl 97 makes no sense. Hennig actually got the pin in that tag match, yet he simply turns and joins the NWO at the PPV? I have always defended that heel turn but not so much after seeing that match.

[Darth Pipes 0]

I remember the Patriot feud with the Hart Foundation. He actually got a really strong push for like three months and the last time he was seen, Rick Rude was throwing coffee into his face.

[Aero 0]

Man, what a random main event on Raw. Patriot was obviously feuding with Bulldog, but he was taken out of the match. I did find it funny that Savio suddenly thinks of himself as the king of the triple threat match after winning at Ground Zero. If he had won, he would've been able to be the king of triple threats and Caribbean strap matches, I suppose.

[cabbageboy 0]

I believe The Patriot got hurt in late 1997 and either he just quit the company or they released him. After Bret was run off was there much for him to do anyway? Can you imagine The Patriot doing his act at the peak of the Attitude Era in 1998-99?

[King Kamala 0]

Del Wilkes had a history of back injuries and eventually reached a breaking point and had to retire in October of '97. Even though it sucks that the dude had to end his career as he was in the middle of his most successful run, it was pretty good timing because I couldn't see him lasting very long in Attitude Era WWF. If he had, I could imagine him doing an overly patriotic dork heel gimmick ala early Kurt Angle or The Fabulous Rougeaus.

 

I think Tom Brandi still does The Patriot gimmick to this day on indy shows. The forgettable wrestlers of mid '90s WWF got to look out for each other I guess.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

In a semi-unrelated note, after listening to Brandi's shoot interview, I loved his reason for quitting the WWF.

 

They were jobbing him out under his real name . . . he wasn't having that.

[Darth Pipes 0]

Wilkes was pretty over from what I remember. I really don't know how he would have faired during the Attitude Era. Any other time though, he could have been successful.

[cabbageboy 0]

Maybe The Patriot could have stayed and been the one guy who wasn't affected by the Attitude Era? As in people didn't make fun of his gimmick since he seemed sincere about it, but maybe they added a few tweaks to his character.

 

Personally I think he would have ended up back in WCW at some point. He seems like an absolutely ideal US champ.

[bob_barron 0]

The nWo-WCW angle would work a lot better if the WCW announcers didn't constantly point out how stupid WCW was and if Larry Zybysko wasn't the only guy in the WCW with balls

[Darth Pipes 0]

After seeing that tag match the booking at Fall Brawl 97 makes no sense. Hennig actually got the pin in that tag match, yet he simply turns and joins the NWO at the PPV? I have always defended that heel turn but not so much after seeing that match.

 

I guess it's kind of like during that horrible invasion angle. Austin led the WWE team against WCW/ECW and when he tagged into the ring, he pounded the various WCECW guys, only to turn on the WWE and join the Alliance at the end of the match.

 

When you think about it, the way the NWO pounded WCW doesn't make sense. WCW outnumbered them like four-to-one, yet they never bandied together for more than two weeks to beat down the NWO. Bischoff being allowed to stay as VP of WCW for months after it was revealed he was NWO was stupid too.

 

[MillenniumMan831 0]

If old WCW banded together, it would have ended up just like the new WCW Invasion where Bradshaw gathered everyone around to cremate new WCW. It was for the better that old WCW guys were a bunch of scared, disorganized flakes when the nWo were causing chaos.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah I don't have a problem with that aspect of the NWO angle. The main point of it was that WCW had a bunch of guys with their own problems, feuds, agendas, and that they couldn't easily become this Band of Brothers to take out the NWO. In fact several simply joined it rather than try and fight.

[DarKnight 0]

WCW should have never had so many people join the NWO. It just wasn't necessary. They should have never had the NWO considered to be another company, like their PPV's were called "WCW/NWO presents" whatever. Their just a heel faction, not another company.

[Guest]

That triple-threat sucked pretty bad. The whole show did, to be honest. In comparison, Nitro's blowing this away ever since SummerSlam, and Nitro ain't so hot either. Angle-wise, I mean. Match-wise Nitro has been better in at least 65% of the shows I've watched since getting this channel. Better matchups at least...

[bob_barron 0]

I don't know if I agree. Nitro has some decent short matches, but most of the main events on RAW usually deliver. The Nitro main events are just brutal.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

Vince was really high on The Patriot, and had, in fact, been trying to acquire him for many years before he started that summer. So, maybe he had a chance.

[cabbageboy 0]

The Patriot had a curious US career, which is ironic considering his gimmick. I remember seeing him on Global back in the day (like 1992 or so) and then didn't see him until a run in WCW that I barely remember where he and Bagwell won the tag belts. Then nothing again until his WWF run in 1997. Wonder why he never had a sustained run in a US promotion?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The Patriot had a curious US career, which is ironic considering his gimmick. I remember seeing him on Global back in the day (like 1992 or so) and then didn't see him until a run in WCW that I barely remember where he and Bagwell won the tag belts. Then nothing again until his WWF run in 1997. Wonder why he never had a sustained run in a US promotion?

He had a good spot in All Japan and wasn't willing to give it up.

[Guest]

I don't know if I agree. Nitro has some decent short matches, but most of the main events on RAW usually deliver. The Nitro main events are just brutal.

True about the main events being brutal, but the midcard is so much better.